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| Topic: IS GOD RESPONSABLE FOR EVERYTHING OR NOT | |
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I have never told anyone they are going to hell, and I don't really think anyone else should either. That is not my job. I don't necessarily think that hell is where BAD people go. It is where those who have not accepted the sacrifice of Jesus and his blood will go, according to the Bible, and I believe this. Also, I don't believe anyone should be practicing Christianity. I believe they should be living their faith, by Biblical standards, not what another person tells them. My family tried to teach me that racism was ok, that hating others for the color of their skin is fine. They also claim to be Christians. What they were trying to teach me doesn't make it right. When I became old enough, I had to go by what I read in the Bible, and compare it to what they said, and decide for myself what was right. Now, how can the fact that the Bible says that people will go to hell if they reject Christ be wrong. It is a simple fact, based on what the Bible says. If one doesn't believe in Hell as a real place then there should not really be a problem with what the Bible says. It would be just another belief. It is never okay to be horrible, or mean spirited. My christian faith tells me that, not my religious faith. One can pretend to be religious, and not be a christian. If they treat someone like that, they are wrong and they are not a christian at all. The Bible says we are known by our fruits. That kind of fruit is not what God expects from us.
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Thu 10/23/08 01:57 AM
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Can anyone prove this stuff is "divinely inspired" or better yet, not terribly agenda driven by men eager to obtain power, control and presumably wealth by espousing this crap and pretending to "hear the direct word of a faceless, formless deity?" And what happened to all of the civilizations and people who existed thousands of years prior to this monotheistic invasion who were Pagan???  Well for one thing - none of the disciples obtained power, they maintained control over no one, and they certainly did not accumulate wealth. As a matter of record - they were imprisoned, stoned, fed to lions, and crucified for their "agenda". Kind of underminds your hypothesis of those idea's. All of the civilizations who existed prior to them. I would wager a guess they all died. Eljay, some Christians were indeed thrown to the lions but not nearly the number that they would have us believe. Not all of them were Christians. The vast majority put to death by the Romans were captives and that could have been anyone. And most of them were considered criminals because of desecration of temples, not just because they were Christians. And "they all died" is not an answer. Your post doesn't make any sense. First of all, what does "not nearly the number that they think" - who's they, and I wasn't aware they had any clue as to how many were thrown to the lions. What they knew is if you were a christian and you got caught, you were matryd. I'm sure they weren't keeping track of whether it was burned at the stake, fed to the lions, crucified, run through with a sword... Sure they all died is an asnwer. You know of any of them who didn't? "They" would be referring to Christians. I think you missed the point of the post. Of course there's no evidence, it's just religious propaganda. Not to mention that wouldn't it be a horrible prospect either way? Shouldn't the Christians have realized that two wrongs do not make a right as it would relate to their own treatment of non-believers and Pagans much later in history? No such luck. Romans killed a lot of people, captives were executed for all kinds of reasons, and yes a lot of Christians got killed , and a lot of Jews got killed too, and a whole lot of everything else. Christians, specially Catholics, are just making a big deal of this to amplify their status as martyrs through history. Christians killed Pagans before the Romans fed Christians to the lions. The Pagans were minding their own business but because according to the Christians they were not following the "true god" they got killed because of it. The Romans were just returning the favor. Being an ass, historically, begets, being an ass. "They all died" is not addressing the issue of pre-Christian peoples at all. All the Christians from that time period are dead also. Your point? I think you've got your dates a little confused. Christians were not killing pagens at the time of the Roman persecution - where are you getting this information? My response of "they all died" was a response of equal relevance of the question you asked. If you found no point in my response, it is because there was no point to your question. I actually only copied and pasted up to an extent. I can keep going if you like. Crack a history book Eljay. Thats all I can say. And Im tired of your excuse of "Im too old and done with school." Learning is an ongoing process. 314 Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks the Gentiles: The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of the Goddess Artemis. 324 Emperor Constantine declares Christianity the only official religion of the Roman Empire. At Dydima, Asia Minor, he sacks the Oracle of God Apollo and tortures its Pagan priests to death. He evicts the Gentiles from Mt. Athos and destroys all local Hellenic Temples. 326 Emperor Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the Temple of the God Asclepius in Aigeai of Cilicia and many Temples of the Goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenice, Baalbek, etc. 330 Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the Pagan Temples in Greece to decorate Nova Roma (Constantinople), the new capital of his Empire. 335 Constantine sacks many Pagan Temples of Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers". Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatros. 341 Emperor Constas, son of Constantinus, persecutes "all the soothsayers and the Hellenists". Many Gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed. 346 New large-scale persecutions of the Gentiles in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius, who is accused of being a "magician". 353 An edict of Constantius decrees the death penalty for all forms of worship involving sacrifice and "idols". 354 A new edict of Constantius orders the closing of all Pagan Temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms. Executions of Pagan priests. The first burning of libraries in various cities of the Empire. The first lime factories are built next to closed Pagan Temples. A large part of Sacred Gentile architecture is turned into lime. 356 A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the Pagan Temples and the execution of all "idolaters". 357 Constantius outlaws all methods of Divination (Astrology not excluded). 359 In Skythopolis, Syria, christians organise the first death camps for the torture and execution of arrested Gentiles from all around the Empire. 361 to 363 Religious tolerance and restoration of Pagan cults declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the Pagan Emperor Flavius Claudius Julianus. 363 Assassination of Emperor Julianus (26th June). 364 Emperor Flavius Jovianus orders the burning of the Library of Antioch. An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all Gentiles that worship their ancestral Gods or practice Divination (“sileat omnibus perpetuo divinandi uriositas”). Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order the confiscation of all properties of Pagan Temples and the death penalty for participation in Pagan rituals, including private ones. And I posed the question what of the peoples who existed prior to the establishment of Christendom as a full blown religion. If you dont see the relevance, then why even bother with a ridiculous and unhelpful response? I can only wonder. You make the same mistake that Abra does. You confuse "christianity" with "churchiology". Because a particular sect of some religion declares a religious war on a group of pagans does not translate into an indeightment on christianity. If you'll examine the text a little closer, you will see that this behavior is a demonstration of what christianity is NOT. Because you read a secular historical account of these matters - does not make it so. That is the same thing as claiming that Islamists are responsible for 9/11, therefore all islamists are terrorists. Most Islamists will refuse to even recognize Osama Bin Laden as an adherant - but that doesn't stop the media from labelling him as such, and for sure the history books will portay him as one. So - no, your response does not help. It only shows that you are willing to accept the presumptions of others as the truth, and that you do little to examine the source text to see if in fact the sources you so easily accept are in fact reliable. You sight them only to support your pretext - which may prove useful to you, they are irrelivant to me. Well I understand what you are saying there and you make a valid point. Jesus who I consider to be the central character in Christianity was arguably a pacifist if in fact he existed. Thus far I have found some indications that he wasnt totally brown rice and granola but that may have been a survival instinct and you probably could not expect him to not have been prepared to defend himself during these hostile circumstance that surrounded him. I am not proclaiming that ALL modern day Christians are terribly, evil souls that want nothing more than to actually physically harm people. Of course we know there are some of that mindset. My point of contention is really with any fundamentalist or extremist group that promotes intolerance. So that could be Christians, Muslims or ANY religious sect. There are always those types that can become carried away or lose themselves in something or choose to enforce their own power hungry agendas. However clearly Christians persecuted Pagans. That is not unsubstantiated just because you choose to refer to it as "irrelevant" Its documented historical fact Eljay. My point is that that Christians seem to STILL adhere to an indoctrination which supports the concept of hell, intolerance and that people who are not practicing Christians are going to hell. That is a hurtful and unnecessary indictment of your fellow humans and sows the seeds of discourse among brethren. You aught not to do that. Bu thats my opinion. Shrug. This post is much clearer, and one where I can see the point you are making - however my stance is that there are "people" who persecute pagens, who through misguided zeal think they are doing right by christianity. This is just not so. Those who go into abortion clinics and kill the doctors and nurses there are not "christians" by any sense of the term, despite what they may believe, or claim. It is a mis-conception to think that there is anything in christianity that supports the persecution of anyone for whatever they believe. Certainly not to the point of physical harm in any way. As to the catch phrase "God is going to send a non-believer to hell" - this too is a misnomer. God is going to grant the desires of those based on what they chose. God does not condemn anyone who has not made that decision for themselves. That is the christian concept. He is the creator, and resids in the heavenly realm. Those who will spend their eternity with him in that realm are those who have chosen to do so. But this realm is where God resides. It is not a right for one to end up there, but a privlidge. And is only so because Jesus has reconciled man so that he may enjoy that priviledge. For those to whom this is but myth - their choice to not end up there is their own, not God's - for he has made it known to man what is expected to be in his presence for eternity. He extends the invitation to spend eternity with him to all men, but man does not chose God - they chose their own destiny. So - why does this concern you what people chose for themselves? What do you chose? All of my previous posts have been clear as well. Im not sure what you find so terribly confusing. If you dont understand something, ask, no harm, no foul. My point, and to borrow your example if I may, the Christians who do in fact bomb abortion clinics and kill and injure patients and doctors BELIEVE that their faith not only condones their decision to commit such an atrocity, but also sanctifies it. You personally may not hold that viewpoint. I dont think that you are crazy in that respect yet these others are still Christians. At least in their own minds they are. The same situation occurred with the Muslims who did enact the 9-11 bombings on domestic soil. They felt they were performing these maneuvers in service to their Allah. The designation doesnt matter, once you choose to perpetrate such an act of hatred, the religion you profess to follow or your spiritual beliefs become irrelevant. You are a menace. Thats a big attempt at sweetening it up Eljay. I have been told directly by Christians on forum (and in person) that I am going to hell probably more times than I can count now. I would have no problem with your choice to be a Christian as long as you did not condemn anyone else's chosen spiritual path in the process. I think I have made that point abundantly clear. I also mentioned that this has been my experience with Paganism. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Thu 10/23/08 02:09 AM
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I have never told anyone they are going to hell, and I don't really think anyone else should either. That is not my job. I don't necessarily think that hell is where BAD people go. It is where those who have not accepted the sacrifice of Jesus and his blood will go, according to the Bible, and I believe this. Also, I don't believe anyone should be practicing Christianity. I believe they should be living their faith, by Biblical standards, not what another person tells them. My family tried to teach me that racism was ok, that hating others for the color of their skin is fine. They also claim to be Christians. What they were trying to teach me doesn't make it right. When I became old enough, I had to go by what I read in the Bible, and compare it to what they said, and decide for myself what was right. Now, how can the fact that the Bible says that people will go to hell if they reject Christ be wrong. It is a simple fact, based on what the Bible says. If one doesn't believe in Hell as a real place then there should not really be a problem with what the Bible says. It would be just another belief. It is never okay to be horrible, or mean spirited. My christian faith tells me that, not my religious faith. One can pretend to be religious, and not be a christian. If they treat someone like that, they are wrong and they are not a christian at all. The Bible says we are known by our fruits. That kind of fruit is not what God expects from us. I made a point of saying in my post that "I am not accusing you of telling people they are going to hell." Perhaps you missed it. However, clearly it happens on a daily basis. Certain Christians feel the need to constantly remind others that they are going to hell if they dont relinquish themselves and convert. I have a hard time swallowing that you personally feel that hell is "not a place where bad people go necessarily." Well where do they go necessarily then? I am telling you that it is wrong to condemn people simply because the bible states that a person who does not accept Jesus as their lord and savior is bound for hell. That is a terrible ideology and fundamentally wrong. There is no way around it. You can say well I dont personally tell people that to their faces. It doesnt matter. You believe it to be the case. It is not a fact. It is written in a 2000 (maybe 3000) year old document supposedly inspired by "divinity". There is absolutely nothing to substantiate that premise and actually quite a bit of evidence to discredit it. |
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All of my previous posts have been clear as well. Im not sure what you find so terribly confusing. If you dont understand something, ask, no harm, no foul.
My point, and to borrow your example if I may, the Christians who do in fact bomb abortion clinics and kill and injure patients and doctors BELIEVE that their faith not only condones their decision to commit such an atrocity, but also sanctifies it. You personally may not hold that viewpoint. I dont think that you are crazy in that respect yet these others are still Christians. At least in their own minds they are. The same situation occurred with the Muslims who did enact the 9-11 bombings on domestic soil. They felt they were performing these maneuvers in service to their Allah. The designation doesnt matter, once you choose to perpetrate such an act of hatred, the religion you profess to follow or your spiritual beliefs become irrelevant. You are a menace. Thats a big attempt at sweetening it up Eljay. I have been told directly by Christians on forum (and in person) that I am going to hell probably more times than I can count now. I would have no problem with your choice to be a Christian as long as you did not condemn anyone else's chosen spiritual path in the process. I think I have made that point abundantly clear. I also mentioned that this has been my experience with Paganism. Krimsa, we are all responsible for our own behavior. How we treat each other, how we respond to God. With any religion, we can't look at what other do, or don't do, to decide if we are going to follow that religion. There are always going to be those that take the basic beliefs and go to far one way or another, and do wrong with it. We have to look within ourselves and decide if we believe the teachings or not. With Christianity, we should only go to the source of the basic beliefs, and not look at the distortions that others have used. If you keep your heart open, use only the Bible as your guide, you will find the answers that you are looking for. I believe that God is trying to reach your heart, or you would not have even bothered with this discussion, you would have gone to another chat room altogether. You can't base what a few have done in the name of religion, and totally wipe out that religion as bad, or not true. Go to the Bible and read for yourself, with an open heart, what it has to say. You will find that there is nothing in there that gave anyone the right to kill others as God's method of justice. As a matter of fact, God said vengence is mine. It belongs to him. It all comes down to do you want to know what the Bible says, or do you want to just hear opinions of what others say it says. Don't listen to me or Eljay or anyone else. Go to the source. Then decide if you believe Jesus exists. Start with Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Then go to Acts. They tell His story better that anyone else can. God bless you. I have to get back to work. I will leave my computer on long enough to see your reply. |
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Edited by
keepthehope
on
Thu 10/23/08 02:28 AM
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I have never told anyone they are going to hell, and I don't really think anyone else should either. That is not my job. I don't necessarily think that hell is where BAD people go. It is where those who have not accepted the sacrifice of Jesus and his blood will go, according to the Bible, and I believe this. Also, I don't believe anyone should be practicing Christianity. I believe they should be living their faith, by Biblical standards, not what another person tells them. My family tried to teach me that racism was ok, that hating others for the color of their skin is fine. They also claim to be Christians. What they were trying to teach me doesn't make it right. When I became old enough, I had to go by what I read in the Bible, and compare it to what they said, and decide for myself what was right. Now, how can the fact that the Bible says that people will go to hell if they reject Christ be wrong. It is a simple fact, based on what the Bible says. If one doesn't believe in Hell as a real place then there should not really be a problem with what the Bible says. It would be just another belief. It is never okay to be horrible, or mean spirited. My christian faith tells me that, not my religious faith. One can pretend to be religious, and not be a christian. If they treat someone like that, they are wrong and they are not a christian at all. The Bible says we are known by our fruits. That kind of fruit is not what God expects from us. I made a point of saying in my post that "I am not accusing you of telling people they are going to hell." Perhaps you missed it. However, clearly it happens on a daily basis. Certain Christians feel the need to constantly remind others that they are going to hell if they dont relinquish themselves and convert. I have a hard time swallowing that you personally feel that hell is "not a place where bad people go necessarily." Well where do they go necessarily then? I am telling you that it is wrong to condemn people simply because the bible states that a person who does not accept Jesus as their lord and savior is bound for hell. That is a terrible ideology and fundamentally wrong. There is no way around it. You can say well I dont personally tell people that to their faces. It doesnt matter. You believe it to be the case. It is not a fact. It is written in a 2000 (maybe 3000) year old document supposedly inspired by "divinity". There is absolutely nothing to substantiate that premise and actually quite a bit of evidence to discredit it. Curiousity has me asking, what evidence is there that discredits the Bible and its divinity? I have actually found the opposite to be true. There is no other book in history that has lasted as long, and has not changed in any way. Yes there are different versions, but they still say the same thing, just in different ways. And if the ideology is fundamentally wrong, why should it matter if one doesn't believe hell exists. What would it matter. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Thu 10/23/08 02:36 AM
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Uhh, you must be new.Lets see, I dont know where to start. You can look up just about any of my posts over the past 6 months. Just click on my profile number log. Mine and Belushi, Abracadabra is a good source also.
Of course bear in mind, all we are doing is showing where the scripture is fundamentally flawed in its logic. If you are just going to be blind and lean on your faith, then dont bother. The crux of the matter here is I could not give a rat's butt what you believe in on a personal basis. You could profess to run around naked and worship ice cream cones and I would probably be interested and ask you some questions. The second you tell me I am going to hell because I refuse to accept your ice cream deity, then you have a problem. I have already explained to you over the course of three posts why exactly it matters that you not tell people they are going to hell even if that person puts no stock in such things. It is because I realize that your understanding of hell is that it has a negative connotation attached to it. This is nothing less than spiteful and misdirected condemnation. The only reason Christianity and the bible is still around today was the fact that it was so brutally and unwaveringly enforced amongst its proponents. Its is a lot easier to convince someone of a ridiculous set of new beliefs if you explain to them the alternative via the broad end of a sword. |
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Edited by
keepthehope
on
Thu 10/23/08 02:51 AM
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Uhh, you must be new.Lets see, I dont know where to start. You can look up just about any of my posts over the past 6 months. Just click on my profile number log. Mine and Belushi, Abracadabra is a good source also. Of course bear in mind, all we are doing is showing where the scripture is fundamentally flawed in its logic. If you are just going to be blind and lean on your faith, then dont bother. The crux of the matter here is I could not give a rat's butt what you believe in on a personal basis. You could profess to run around naked and worship ice cream cones and I would probably be interested and ask you some questions. The second you tell me I am going to hell because I refuse to accept your ice cream deity, then you have a problem. I have already explained to you over the course of three posts why exactly it matters that you not tell people they are going to hell even if that person puts no stock in such things. It is because I realize that your understanding of hell is that it has a negative connotation attached to it. This is nothing less than spiteful and misdirected condemnation. The only reason Christianity and the bible is still around today was the fact that it was so brutally and unwaveringly enforced amongst its proponents. Its is a lot easier to convince someone of a ridiculous set of new beliefs if you explain to them the alternative via the broad end of a sword. That sounds to me like you are doing the same thing that as those that condemn others, you are discounting their beliefs because they are different than yours. If you believed in hell, you would be telling them they are going to hell. Your heart and mind are closed off and I feel sorry for you that you choose to reject God. He is the only one that really matters as far as opinions are concerned. I think you are more worried about keeping yourself convinced than actually looking for the truth. Unless your evidence comes from the Bible and not your personal beliefs or those of others, then it doesn't have anything to do with my beliefs or the truth, and therefore doesn't bother me or mean anything to me. I have the Source of the Truth. That is all I need. Now days, no one is using the broad end of any sword to convince anyone of anything. The fact also remains, that type of persuasion does not really work, it just leads people to fake a belief they do not have, to keep themselves alive. That would never have kept the Bible around. The Christians were the ones being tortured to death when Christianity first came into being, and they still believed. Your theory should have made them leave Christianity instead of keeping their faith. Good night and God bless. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Thu 10/23/08 02:54 AM
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All of my previous posts have been clear as well. Im not sure what you find so terribly confusing. If you dont understand something, ask, no harm, no foul. My point, and to borrow your example if I may, the Christians who do in fact bomb abortion clinics and kill and injure patients and doctors BELIEVE that their faith not only condones their decision to commit such an atrocity, but also sanctifies it. You personally may not hold that viewpoint. I dont think that you are crazy in that respect yet these others are still Christians. At least in their own minds they are. The same situation occurred with the Muslims who did enact the 9-11 bombings on domestic soil. They felt they were performing these maneuvers in service to their Allah. The designation doesnt matter, once you choose to perpetrate such an act of hatred, the religion you profess to follow or your spiritual beliefs become irrelevant. You are a menace. Thats a big attempt at sweetening it up Eljay. I have been told directly by Christians on forum (and in person) that I am going to hell probably more times than I can count now. I would have no problem with your choice to be a Christian as long as you did not condemn anyone else's chosen spiritual path in the process. I think I have made that point abundantly clear. I also mentioned that this has been my experience with Paganism. Krimsa, we are all responsible for our own behavior. How we treat each other, how we respond to God. With any religion, we can't look at what other do, or don't do, to decide if we are going to follow that religion. There are always going to be those that take the basic beliefs and go to far one way or another, and do wrong with it. We have to look within ourselves and decide if we believe the teachings or not. With Christianity, we should only go to the source of the basic beliefs, and not look at the distortions that others have used. If you keep your heart open, use only the Bible as your guide, you will find the answers that you are looking for. I believe that God is trying to reach your heart, or you would not have even bothered with this discussion, you would have gone to another chat room altogether. You can't base what a few have done in the name of religion, and totally wipe out that religion as bad, or not true. Go to the Bible and read for yourself, with an open heart, what it has to say. You will find that there is nothing in there that gave anyone the right to kill others as God's method of justice. As a matter of fact, God said vengence is mine. It belongs to him. It all comes down to do you want to know what the Bible says, or do you want to just hear opinions of what others say it says. Don't listen to me or Eljay or anyone else. Go to the source. Then decide if you believe Jesus exists. Start with Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Then go to Acts. They tell His story better that anyone else can. God bless you. I have to get back to work. I will leave my computer on long enough to see your reply. Of course we are responsible for our own behavior. I in no way need some formless deity who supposedly lives up in the clouds someplace telling me the difference between right and wrong. No one requires religion to assist them in the differentiation between the two. I think you simply repeated my point that ANY fundamentalist ideology, Christian or other has the potential for corruption of its followers. So you lost me on that one. I have looked within myself and I choose not to accept the bible or Christ or Christianity because in my personal estimation, it is a horribly abusive and misogynistic ideology. I have explained this on forum through numerous posts. I am not basing this on what "others believe". I rendered this conclusion based on my own research and reading of both the OT and the NT in which case I found them both to be fundamentally flawed and whats worse, hateful in the extreme. Perhaps you are relying on the thoughts and expressions of others simply telling you that "god is good"? You dont know me at all.  I have been hanging out in the religion forum for about 6-7 months now and creating posts about my various discoveries I have made while reading the bible. I actually asked the site administration (along with several other members) if they would create a science and technology forum separate of the religion section and they have thus far refused so that is why I am here. Also it would be helpful if you could utilize the quote feature because I nearly missed this post. I will ALWAYS reply to anyone that addresses me. Unless I dont see it.  |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Thu 10/23/08 03:29 AM
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Uhh, you must be new.Lets see, I dont know where to start. You can look up just about any of my posts over the past 6 months. Just click on my profile number log. Mine and Belushi, Abracadabra is a good source also. Of course bear in mind, all we are doing is showing where the scripture is fundamentally flawed in its logic. If you are just going to be blind and lean on your faith, then dont bother. The crux of the matter here is I could not give a rat's butt what you believe in on a personal basis. You could profess to run around naked and worship ice cream cones and I would probably be interested and ask you some questions. The second you tell me I am going to hell because I refuse to accept your ice cream deity, then you have a problem. I have already explained to you over the course of three posts why exactly it matters that you not tell people they are going to hell even if that person puts no stock in such things. It is because I realize that your understanding of hell is that it has a negative connotation attached to it. This is nothing less than spiteful and misdirected condemnation. The only reason Christianity and the bible is still around today was the fact that it was so brutally and unwaveringly enforced amongst its proponents. Its is a lot easier to convince someone of a ridiculous set of new beliefs if you explain to them the alternative via the broad end of a sword. That sounds to me like you are doing the same thing that as those that condemn others, you are discounting their beliefs because they are different than yours. If you believed in hell, you would be telling them they are going to hell. Your heart and mind are closed off and I feel sorry for you that you choose to reject God. He is the only one that really matters as far as opinions are concerned. I think you are more worried about keeping yourself convinced than actually looking for the truth. Unless your evidence comes from the Bible and not your personal beliefs or those of others, then it doesn't have anything to do with my beliefs or the truth, and therefore doesn't bother me or mean anything to me. I have the Source of the Truth. That is all I need. Now days, no one is using the broad end of any sword to convince anyone of anything. The fact also remains, that type of persuasion does not really work, it just leads people to fake a belief they do not have, to keep themselves alive. That would never have kept the Bible around. The Christians were the ones being tortured to death when Christianity first came into being, and they still believed. Your theory should have made them leave Christianity instead of keeping their faith. Good night and God bless. Clearly this post was made as a knee jerk reaction and based in emotion and not in any sort of logic. I have repeatedly explained to you that I condemn no one. I have NO problem with Christians. It is when a Christian presumes to tell me I am going to hell because I am not Christian. Do you understand the difference? I obviously do not believe in hell and even if I did have some conception of a horrible place, comparable to hell, I would never choose to subjugate myself to a terrible ideology that professes to condemn those that do not accept this same deity. I think I am actually a seeker of truth. Otherwise I would not waste my time here.If you are so completely closed off from digesting this information, then who is unwilling to even visualize something different than their own belief system? As I mentioned. All you need do is click on any of my past posts and you will see where I have taken direct passages form the bible to make my points. In fact that is all I ever utilize. Im not sure what you have determined to "be my theory" exactly. The longevity of Christianity at its source stems primarily on its use of violence and intimidation in order to establish its foundation of followers. If you do not understand this to be the case, I urge you to crack a history book as I also asked Eljay to do. You can not simply disregard this information as it is a matter of historical record. Yes Christians were put to death by the Romans. However so were Jews, so were Pagans, so were a lot of people. The Romans took prisoners in droves from throughout their empire and would then systematically put them to death by either crucifixion or by feeding them to lions (although that was more for show). Christians were very often executed for being suspected of defacing Pagan temples and places of worship.They were considered criminals by the Roman senate. Then immediately following Emperor Constantin's conversion to Christianity, you will see the launch of an enormous campaign of death and destructive force. The idea behind this was to demolish thousands of years of Pre-Christian Paganism and spirituality. Please dont exaggerate your martyrdom status. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Thu 10/23/08 05:09 AM
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God will only intervene if we let him. Most people want to handle things on their own. We have to allow him access into our daily lives, have daily communication with Him. Krimsa, I am not sure what you meant when you said that he would intervene if he gave us free will. I think that if he did intervene, that would take away our ability to choose. He would be making that choice for us. I love my children very much, but if every time they started to get up when they were learning how to walk and intervened before they fell and got hurt, how would they learn to walk. I would just be picking them up, carrying them around. God is like a parent to us, or wants to be if we let him. He isn't going to snatch us up so that we don't learn and grow. I just meant that I dont entirely see the difference between your ideology and that of a Deist. A Deist (which many of our Founding Fathers subscribed to incidentally) simply means that you do not deny that there was some form of creator though not necessarily a Christian conceptualization in origin. Deism is the belief that a supreme god exists and created the physical universe, and that religious truths can be arrived at by the application of reason alone, without dependence on revelation.There is also no interaction between this creator and humans. Im seeing very little difference. Its not clear cut anyway although I will concede that you and Eljay probably feel some kind of differentiation.
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ok, so it seems that the finality of this discussion is to me that that god is responsible for everything and that because of the propensity or provision for allowing sin and evil to be intruduced to man in the garden, that he is guilty as charged - thank you all for your participation -
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ok, so it seems that the finality of this discussion is to me that that god is responsible for everything and that because of the propensity or provision for allowing sin and evil to be intruduced to man in the garden, that he is guilty as charged - thank you all for your participation - I was honestly done Sam and then Eljay resurrected it from the depths last night. Or like 2am ish, whenever he mystically materializes and calls us all out on past posts. 
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ok, so it seems that the finality of this discussion is to me that that god is responsible for everything and that because of the propensity or provision for allowing sin and evil to be intruduced to man in the garden, that he is guilty as charged - thank you all for your participation - I was honestly done Sam and then Eljay resurrected it from the depths last night. Or like 2am ish, whenever he mystically materializes and calls us all out on past posts. no prob K, i think my post was through as to who the blame falls on anyway thnx again for your input -
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ok, so it seems that the finality of this discussion is to me that that god is responsible for everything and that because of the propensity or provision for allowing sin and evil to be intruduced to man in the garden, that he is guilty as charged - thank you all for your participation - Perhaps that is why he left the earth and is not coming back. He jumped bail.
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Thu 10/23/08 03:27 PM
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ok, so it seems that the finality of this discussion is to me that that god is responsible for everything and that because of the propensity or provision for allowing sin and evil to be intruduced to man in the garden, that he is guilty as charged - thank you all for your participation - I was honestly done Sam and then Eljay resurrected it from the depths last night. Or like 2am ish, whenever he mystically materializes and calls us all out on past posts. no prob K, i think my post was through as to who the blame falls on anyway thnx again for your input - There were a couple arguments on this thread. It got really crazy because it broke off into sub topics. I kept telling myself I wasnt interested and then you or Eljay or even Spider would say something that annoyed me enough to comment. Just goes to prove you are the "Master Thread Creatrix."
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Edited by
tribo
on
Thu 10/23/08 04:22 PM
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ok, so it seems that the finality of this discussion is to me that that god is responsible for everything and that because of the propensity or provision for allowing sin and evil to be intruduced to man in the garden, that he is guilty as charged - thank you all for your participation - I was honestly done Sam and then Eljay resurrected it from the depths last night. Or like 2am ish, whenever he mystically materializes and calls us all out on past posts. no prob K, i think my post was through as to who the blame falls on anyway thnx again for your input - There were a couple arguments on this thread. It got really crazy because it broke off into sub topics. I kept telling myself I wasnt interested and then you or Eljay or even Spider would say something that annoyed me enough to comment. Just goes to prove you are the "Master Thread Creatrix." well then maybe i'm just a master "annoyer" dont go there!! no comments on baters - you either SKY!! |
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ok, so it seems that the finality of this discussion is to me that that god is responsible for everything and that because of the propensity or provision for allowing sin and evil to be intruduced to man in the garden, that he is guilty as charged - thank you all for your participation - I was honestly done Sam and then Eljay resurrected it from the depths last night. Or like 2am ish, whenever he mystically materializes and calls us all out on past posts. no prob K, i think my post was through as to who the blame falls on anyway thnx again for your input - There were a couple arguments on this thread. It got really crazy because it broke off into sub topics. I kept telling myself I wasnt interested and then you or Eljay or even Spider would say something that annoyed me enough to comment. Just goes to prove you are the "Master Thread Creatrix." well then maybe i'm just a master "annoyer" dont go there!! no comments on baters - you either SKY!! See now ya just hadda go and throw that bait out there didn't ya! Well, you are a master at it. 
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ok, so it seems that the finality of this discussion is to me that that god is responsible for everything and that because of the propensity or provision for allowing sin and evil to be intruduced to man in the garden, that he is guilty as charged - thank you all for your participation - I was honestly done Sam and then Eljay resurrected it from the depths last night. Or like 2am ish, whenever he mystically materializes and calls us all out on past posts. no prob K, i think my post was through as to who the blame falls on anyway thnx again for your input - There were a couple arguments on this thread. It got really crazy because it broke off into sub topics. I kept telling myself I wasnt interested and then you or Eljay or even Spider would say something that annoyed me enough to comment. Just goes to prove you are the "Master Thread Creatrix." well then maybe i'm just a master "annoyer" dont go there!! no comments on baters - you either SKY!! See now ya just hadda go and throw that bait out there didn't ya! Well, you are a master at it. yeh i forgot about the adam and eve motivational thing -
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