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| Topic: IS GOD RESPONSABLE FOR EVERYTHING OR NOT | |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 10/18/08 08:02 AM
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I think man probably does have the ability to be totally righteous and perfect as well as totally flawed. But the state of being righteous seems like an opinion to me. Why people think that a God "gave" mankind something called "free will" is beyond me. The will is innate and inherent in all consciousness. Will is part of the package in the manifestation of Prime source. Prime Source has the will to exist and it manifests itself in all things which naturally also have the will to exist. Innate in all living creatures is a desire to be free. Even a domestic dog who depends on humans hates to be chained or caged. Freedom is paramount. jb man does not have the ability to be righteous while wearing this flesh my lady, ayone who thinks they are capable of being sinless or in your case wrong is crazy -   It is easy to be sinless because sin is a term that is confined and owned by religious doctrine and it boils down to mean "disobedience" of some conception of an all mighty creator who wrote laws and commandments and stated that "the wages of sin is death." Therefore, unless you subscribe to that religious doctrine, the term "sin" is meaningless and a moot point. You can only be a "sinner" if you buy lock stock and barrel, the religious implication's of that term and subscribe to Christianity or any similar religious doctrine that uses the term "sin." But if you are a free agent or atheist you cannot think of yourself as a "sinner" because the word has no meaning. The idea of righteousness is basically an opinion. Yes, you can be righteous in this moment. This moment is all that truly exists. It matters not what you did yesterday. If you made a mistake and learned from it, and if you move to the next step of becoming a better person, and if you forgive yourself and vow to do and be better and hold that intention, you can indeed be righteous in that moment. That is what repentance and forgiveness is all about. When you truly repent unto yourself and vow to change, then you are a new and righteous person at that moment. You are washed clean and forgiven if your repentance is sincere. You are new because you have truly changed and you have been forgiven and you have forgiven yourself. Each moment is all that exists. What and who you are in this moment is the true you. You Tribo are mistaken. Anyone can be righteous and even without sin in the moment, which is all that truly exists. jb Jeannie; Your post is true only because you refuse to accept the generally accepted syntax for the word "sin". It is an accepted term used by the religious and irreligious alike, and when the term is used it is generally understood what is meant. Stop being so "legalistic" and respond to what is being referenced. You're starting to sound like a "fundie". I don't like the term "fundie" but that is my opinion. I think it is demeaning to some people. If the irreligious use or accept the term its only because they have had it pounded into their brains by the religious for over 2000 years and have not stopped to consider where it comes from and who owns it. Stop being so "legalistic?" I guess I don't know what you mean by that. I am cutting to the bare bones of the truth as I see it and that is the best I can do. There are many ridiculous statements repeated on this club over and over that I don't respond to at all because it is a futile time wasting circle of argument over a moot point or a fictional tale from a 2000 year old manuscript. But I would like to exorcise the freedom to explain the where and why the word "sin" originated from to people, (religious or not,) who use it as if it had some meaning outside of religious doctrine. My hope and aim is that some people may free themselves of this curse of thinking that they should consider themselves burdened with guilt, and "sin" unworthy of God and in need of a savior. We manifest from the perfection of spirit and entertaining the idea that we are hopeless "sinners" of fleshy bodies who need to be saved by a superior being perpetuates that picture that we are helpless and ignorant and keeps people down to the animal consciousness and keeps them identifying with their flesh body and not with their true self, the free light being that they are. Freedom is paramount. JB |
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we are responsible for our own actions!!!
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we are responsible for our own actions!!! Agreed. |
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we are responsible for our own actions!!! Exactly. |
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I think man probably does have the ability to be totally righteous and perfect as well as totally flawed. But the state of being righteous seems like an opinion to me. Why people think that a God "gave" mankind something called "free will" is beyond me. The will is innate and inherent in all consciousness. Will is part of the package in the manifestation of Prime source. Prime Source has the will to exist and it manifests itself in all things which naturally also have the will to exist. Innate in all living creatures is a desire to be free. Even a domestic dog who depends on humans hates to be chained or caged. Freedom is paramount. jb man does not have the ability to be righteous while wearing this flesh my lady, ayone who thinks they are capable of being sinless or in your case wrong is crazy - It is easy to be sinless because sin is a term that is confined and owned by religious doctrine and it boils down to mean "disobedience" of some conception of an all mighty creator who wrote laws and commandments and stated that "the wages of sin is death." Therefore, unless you subscribe to that religious doctrine, the term "sin" is meaningless and a moot point. You can only be a "sinner" if you buy lock stock and barrel, the religious implication's of that term and subscribe to Christianity or any similar religious doctrine that uses the term "sin." But if you are a free agent or atheist you cannot think of yourself as a "sinner" because the word has no meaning. The idea of righteousness is basically an opinion. Yes, you can be righteous in this moment. This moment is all that truly exists. It matters not what you did yesterday. If you made a mistake and learned from it, and if you move to the next step of becoming a better person, and if you forgive yourself and vow to do and be better and hold that intention, you can indeed be righteous in that moment. That is what repentance and forgiveness is all about. When you truly repent unto yourself and vow to change, then you are a new and righteous person at that moment. You are washed clean and forgiven if your repentance is sincere. You are new because you have truly changed and you have been forgiven and you have forgiven yourself. Each moment is all that exists. What and who you are in this moment is the true you. You Tribo are mistaken. Anyone can be righteous and even without sin in the moment, which is all that truly exists. jb Righteousness... Another one of those subjective nouns. Righteous according to an infinite number of variables. An individual CAN be righteous according to self. When taken out of context - you are correct. However, Tribo is speaking of biblical concepts of "evil" here - and is quite aware of what I am refering to when I say that evil is the falling short of being rightious. I was not refering to the word in any other way other than the biblical idea of rightiousness - as it is used to refer to Abraham, or Jesus. Man's interpretation of the biblical idea of righteousness. Is it possible that there may be room for interpretation from perspectives other than Christian? ...Or is this club so exclusive that the book is closed? from my expierience [both in and out of it] - they will entertain anyones perception as to what they might conclude as righteousness like eljay, but the truth is the book is closed. |
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Sam how long were you a practicing Christian and which denomination? Or were you Born Again? I cant remember now but if you already told me I apologize. It can be difficult to keep track of individual backgrounds on a forum.
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it's a my way or the highway scenario - no getting around it- you accept it or your banished from the presence of the god, be that hell or just somewhere away from good eternally - thats the hard part to accept. WHY?
well to me and for me i didn't ask to play, i was shoved into this without any say so [to my knowledge JB] so to me it's no better than a prison camp i would wake up and find myself in after being clunked on the head by my captor and dragged here. I've always been rebellious so i guess thats where all this comes from, i don't like being told what to do or how to do it with out explanation or reason, and if given the choice to play the answer would have been no - find someone else. |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Sat 10/18/08 10:57 AM
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Sam how long were you a practicing Christian and which denomination? Or were you Born Again? I cant remember now but if you already told me I apologize. It can be difficult to keep track of individual backgrounds on a forum. i was >born< a catholic which "automatically" made me so and also a christian by name, attended school at St mary's for 8 yrs and then got slapped by a priest and quit. [long story] from that point i became basically atheist/agnostic - god is dead [nitche] stance more or less. then through a freind [a jewish carpenter - not jesus though] willie bogan got me into reading late great palnet earth and soon i found myself reading the bible and that bloomed into starting a christian commune back in the mid 70's - i got out of all of it {till now] about 89-90 and really till i joined this forum hardly ever talked about god accept in some of my writings such as trueness of being or book of truths etc. that's my story and i'm sticking to it - 
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oh and by the way my step mom who i call mom and my sister are both devote christians go to chuch 3 times a week and love jesus - no debates - no arguements - no bad feelings - why? - LOVE!!
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it's a my way or the highway scenario - no getting around it- you accept it or your banished from the presence of the god, be that hell or just somewhere away from good eternally - thats the hard part to accept. WHY? well to me and for me i didn't ask to play, i was shoved into this without any say so [to my knowledge JB] so to me it's no better than a prison camp i would wake up and find myself in after being clunked on the head by my captor and dragged here. I've always been rebellious so i guess thats where all this comes from, i don't like being told what to do or how to do it with out explanation or reason, and if given the choice to play the answer would have been no - find someone else. I'd be more inclined to look at "playing" if the field had an interesting topography. As far as I can tell, its flat as a pancake... 2-dimensional. |
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oh and by the way my step mom who i call mom and my sister are both devote christians go to chuch 3 times a week and love jesus - no debates - no arguements - no bad feelings - why? - LOVE!! Well its a good thing, otherwise they would be bound for hell. 
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it's a my way or the highway scenario - no getting around it- you accept it or your banished from the presence of the god, be that hell or just somewhere away from good eternally - thats the hard part to accept. WHY? well to me and for me i didn't ask to play, i was shoved into this without any say so [to my knowledge JB] so to me it's no better than a prison camp i would wake up and find myself in after being clunked on the head by my captor and dragged here. I've always been rebellious so i guess thats where all this comes from, i don't like being told what to do or how to do it with out explanation or reason, and if given the choice to play the answer would have been no - find someone else. I'd be more inclined to look at "playing" if the field had an interesting topography. As far as I can tell, its flat as a pancake... 2-dimensional. agreed, but the problem is were not asked, even if the scenaro was better than it sounds - as my ex would have said - " iwould like to get kissed before i get screwed" - take me out, wine me and dine me, give me a reason to shave my legs - hahahaha |
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it's a my way or the highway scenario - no getting around it- you accept it or your banished from the presence of the god, be that hell or just somewhere away from good eternally - thats the hard part to accept. WHY? well to me and for me i didn't ask to play, i was shoved into this without any say so [to my knowledge JB] so to me it's no better than a prison camp i would wake up and find myself in after being clunked on the head by my captor and dragged here. I've always been rebellious so i guess thats where all this comes from, i don't like being told what to do or how to do it with out explanation or reason, and if given the choice to play the answer would have been no - find someone else. I'd be more inclined to look at "playing" if the field had an interesting topography. As far as I can tell, its flat as a pancake... 2-dimensional. agreed, but the problem is were not asked, even if the scenaro was better than it sounds - as my ex would have said - " iwould like to get kissed before i get screwed" - take me out, wine me and dine me, give me a reason to shave my legs - hahahaha Praise Jesus for giving me a reason to shave my legs! 
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it's a my way or the highway scenario - no getting around it- you accept it or your banished from the presence of the god, be that hell or just somewhere away from good eternally - thats the hard part to accept. WHY? well to me and for me i didn't ask to play, i was shoved into this without any say so [to my knowledge JB] so to me it's no better than a prison camp i would wake up and find myself in after being clunked on the head by my captor and dragged here. I've always been rebellious so i guess thats where all this comes from, i don't like being told what to do or how to do it with out explanation or reason, and if given the choice to play the answer would have been no - find someone else. I'd be more inclined to look at "playing" if the field had an interesting topography. As far as I can tell, its flat as a pancake... 2-dimensional. agreed, but the problem is were not asked, even if the scenaro was better than it sounds - as my ex would have said - " iwould like to get kissed before i get screwed" - take me out, wine me and dine me, give me a reason to shave my legs - hahahaha Praise Jesus for giving me a reason to shave my legs! 
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Isaiah 3
3:16 Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet; 3:17 Therefore the LORD will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts. What the hell is going on here exactly? God will "smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion" and "will discover their secret parts" since he doesn't like the way they dress and walk. Presumably they were shaving their legs also. Bad girls! |
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Isaiah 3 3:16 Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet; 3:17 Therefore the LORD will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts. What the hell is going on here exactly? God will "smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion" and "will discover their secret parts" since he doesn't like the way they dress and walk. Presumably they were shaving their legs also. Bad girls! so now we know he's responsible for porno to especially S&M - hahaha
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it's a my way or the highway scenario - no getting around it- you accept it or your banished from the presence of the god, be that hell or just somewhere away from good eternally - thats the hard part to accept. WHY? well to me and for me i didn't ask to play, i was shoved into this without any say so [to my knowledge JB] so to me it's no better than a prison camp i would wake up and find myself in after being clunked on the head by my captor and dragged here. I've always been rebellious so i guess thats where all this comes from, i don't like being told what to do or how to do it with out explanation or reason, and if given the choice to play the answer would have been no - find someone else. I'd be more inclined to look at "playing" if the field had an interesting topography. As far as I can tell, its flat as a pancake... 2-dimensional. agreed, but the problem is were not asked, even if the scenaro was better than it sounds - as my ex would have said - " iwould like to get kissed before i get screwed" - take me out, wine me and dine me, give me a reason to shave my legs - hahahaha Praise Jesus for giving me a reason to shave my legs! yeh but when your screwed by this guy - your really screwed!! For some it must sound like the Fukk of a life time. to me it sounds like a brooklyn bridge salesman tring to get into my wallet. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sat 10/18/08 11:54 AM
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Isaiah 3 3:16 Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet; 3:17 Therefore the LORD will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts. What the hell is going on here exactly? God will "smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion" and "will discover their secret parts" since he doesn't like the way they dress and walk. Presumably they were shaving their legs also. Bad girls! so now we know he's responsible for porno to especially S&M - hahaha No I would disagree there. I think its some of the Christian indoctrination into the whole "sexuality is evil" and "women's bodies are to be covered and shunned" that really became the catalysts and eventually led to a lot of the dysfunctional sexual behaviors and criminal acts that we see evidenced today. I could certainly make that connection though it would require a LOT more research on my part of course. I would begin on this premise: When something is determined to be "evil" or "wrong" as was the case with female sexuality in general, then the more that rule of law is enforced, the greater the desire to have it or witness it in some respect. Thus pornography and the blatant exaggerated portrayal there of. |
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eljay wrote:
However - for the sake of argument - I will return to my former post of accepting for the moment that evil is something that exists beyond a lack of rightiousness, and re-introduce the idea of your posturing some alternative action on God's part that would have eliminated man's ability to be evil, without having to give up freedom of choice. Since - if I'm not mistaken, you find that he is a fool and lacks in wisdom for having allowed this into creation in the first place. tribo replies: well I've actually stated it before Lar, but this time you want to add barrier's to it, guidelines i have to stay with in, but I'll say it as i already have before - """don't create man to begin with""" . be "satisfied" with what you've already created, you seen what happened with the angels rebelling, why continue - whats the point? ask yourself god - do you really "NEED" more people to worship you? knowing that most won't and you'll end up destroying them anyway? what's the point? are you that needy that you have to put man in harms way to serve your purposes? You just can't live without mans serving you and praying and worshiping you? what's the point? Sorry god if your ego is that big and you need to be worshipped to feel good about yourself, find another way, destroy all the bad angels and and create more good ones - or cant you destroy them? - maybe it will work out better the second time around. And at least if you must - be courteous enough to ask me if I'd like to participate in your plans!! i wish you no ill just leave me out of it!! I wasn't informed of any rules or regulation i'd have to follow, nor was i given the choice of being born, yet you condemn me to hell for not wanting to play? What's the point? you give me freedom of choice? but only after the fact? No! freedom of choice is having it before the game begins - allowing me to review the rules and regulations and making a sound and logical choice to participate if i want to. as i said - you should have stopped with the animals, you yourself said they were good, and you gave them no freedom of choice so they would not rebel against you correct? but noooooo, you wanted some creation that would worship you by choice - out of love and grattitude - how's that working out for you? Yeah i can see. |
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Isaiah 3 3:16 Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet; 3:17 Therefore the LORD will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts. What the hell is going on here exactly? God will "smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion" and "will discover their secret parts" since he doesn't like the way they dress and walk. Presumably they were shaving their legs also. Bad girls! so now we know he's responsible for porno to especially S&M - hahaha No I would disagree there. I think its some of the Christian indoctrination into the whole "sexuality is evil" and "women's bodies are to be covered and shunned" that really became the catalysts and eventually led to a lot of the dysfunctional sexual behaviors and criminal acts that we see evidenced today. I could certainly make that connection though it would require a LOT more research on my part of course. I would begin on this premise: When something is determined to be "evil" or "wrong" as was the case with female sexuality in general, then the more that rule of law is enforced, the greater the desire to have it or witness it in some respect. Thus pornography and the blatant exaggerated portrayal there of. that was my comedy at its worst K sorry |
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