feel better now?

Ok first off ... I do not hate anyone or their religious beliefs.
If you want to believe something then Im ok with that. But when you hold it up as the only way, then I will ask questions and cite real-world examples, and expect you to justify why you believe what you believe.

I live in Egypt, in the Sinai Desert..
18 people have been kidnapped in the south near Sudan and Libya.
Bombs go off all the time, they caught three terrorists carrying bombs on a ferry from Aqaba to Nuweiba last week and I am an hour from the Israeli border.

So, I am grateful for my days. Im grateful that I can sit on my rooftop and look over the Red Sea to my right and the mountains to my left in total peace and quiet, and yet know that it could all be snatched away in a millisecond if some jewish or muslim fundie decides to blow someone or something up like they did 3 years ago 2 miles from where I live now.

That being said.

Firstly, Satan is a creation of god. Why? Why put temptation in the way of weak humanity if it was not to punish them for taking it.
That is not the sign of a loving father.

Secondly, you have done the classic religious thing of changing the subject subtly that you answer my question with another question.

So, to bring it back to my original point.
Why does god allow millions of people in Africa to starve?

You said
Starvation starts when crops fail due to no rain and people have nothing to eat.
No rain? Surely thats a simple thing for god to do. After all he managed to create the world in 6 days.

How can babies and children who have nothing to eat, and are days from death, a painfully slow death, be accused of giving up god?

When was the last time you went a week without food or water, to find that the water you have been given is tainted?

The increase in death is due to environmental conditions. If we are to believe your stance then your god created the environmental conditions, therefore he is responsible for the starvation of millions.

Hardly a loving god, is it?

You ascribe your western values to god and assume that he will provide for you, when in reality you are in a luxurious position of being in a society that has too much food and disposes of it as opposed to feeding your own homeless.

That's fine. I have no issue with that, as long as you dont hold it up as the only way to me, then we are good.

Actually I do.

Thank you again.

Although my posts aren't as emotional at this end as they may seem to the readers.

I've been doing this for so many years I'm like numb to it. Kind of like the way doctors get who are fighting cancer I guess.

cool! have a beer

God Bless you

I dont change the subject, im not God so i cannot answer your questions, however i can say that "
Starvation starts when crops fail due to no rain and people have nothing to eat" No rain is cause from... eventually... there is a reason, eventually, we dont know why, in the end we will.

maybe sometimes stuff just happens?

Thank you.

May God bless you as well.

(Just because I don't believe in any particular religion doesn't mean I'm an atheist. )

because i live in a society where i am gratful for the abundance of food, remember what my country was founded upon, in god we trust, now that God is being taken out of all the country is founded upon, watch in yours and my lifetime watch the change in sucess that the USA has had. That is an experience in my eyes.

sure i believe it does, but somtimes things happen and we dont understand why and somtimes wont for years... luck of the draw i suppose

and maybe there is a reason so I don't worry about it

""Firstly, Satan is a creation of god. Why? Why put temptation in the way of weak humanity if it was not to punish them for taking it.
That is not the sign of a loving father.""

I wanted to answer this as well. Think about it though, TO give man a choice, life is choices from the day your born until you die. Not to punish them, to allow man to have choices. Loving father... you have children? If so do you give them choices or plan to shelter them until they die.. maybe this is just me but it seems these questions arnt thought through?

I dont most of the time =\ but when the reason becomes apparent its always good to look back and say, i understand now. =)

This, is somthing I have absolutely no problem with.

If you have kids, you want them to grow without the fear of fear itself.

Threatening them with hell is not doing that.

Children respond better to positive reinforcement than threats and cajoling.
Beating a child because he has done something wrong will teach that child fear. All it will do is teach that child that violence is the way to control.

It will also teach the fear of doing something wrong.
Therefore he/she will think twice about even asking.

Telling xtians that they will go to hell with satan if they dont "take god" is not the way to convert people.

But following the guidances set in the book doesnt work either.
There have been many debates about the contradictions in the man-made bible/qur'an/torah
But none actually give positive reinforcement.
Its all ...

"Unless you do this, you will go to hell!"

Your "loving" god doesnt do this.
According to your bible, he condones infanticide, genocide and slavery.

Not something that I would ever want to be a part of.

Who threatens hell Belushi i havent mentioned it once actually, just because its a 2 road street means little to the point of christianity..

I make no threats..

Spanking is not violent, the action behind the spanking determines if it is violent or not...

and i agree with you, telling someone they will go to hell is not a good way or start to a relationship with god, but remember that i am not them.. nor are they God =)

If that is all you have obtained from the bible you have seen little or have picked parts you dislike about the bible i have a couple favorites which apply outside the world of religion

A few that arnt of which you speak..

Matthew

44::But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matthew 7

1-5
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

1 Corinthians 13

Love
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

I never said you threatened hell, nor made any threats. there was no implication that you did either, either.

Would you say that this is an indication of convert or go to hell?


Doesnt it mean that if you dont find the path to jc and god you will not be going to heaven?

Is that not a clear indication that says "Unless you do this ... you will go to hell"?

In the King James Bible, the term "hell" is used 54 times; 31 times in the Old Testament, and 23 times in the New Testament.

Spanking is violent. Raising your hand to another human being is violent.
I dont care what intention is behind it.
There is no need for it.
I could cite at least 3 beautiful children that have never had a hand raised to them, and they are respectful, honest, kind and will carry on their beauteous humanitarian feelings with them and have no need for any form of religious intervention.

No, because if you think about it if you dont "convert" as you like to call it you dont go to hell because it doesnt exists. You Convert because well i suppose it is different for everyone, not an ultimatum causing if you covert for such reason do you really convert?


Part2

Nahh lets me and you both know hell is in existance, and if you dont want to go to heaven thats the only place left.. not really a choice id say, we chose after all.


Belushi spanking is a whole new ball game at which we could discuss for hours why i disagree but some chose not to spank, i think it is but in moderation. Never spank out of anger but only in love. Like grounding a child you dont want to but to help the child in the long run you will. Violence has a motivator of anger behind it. and i could site 4 children that are just as you describe them and have religion in thier lives. Happiness is relative to the individual, remember. Spanking is a choice and to be honest I would never look down to someone who doesnt i respect both points.

But if I dont become born-again, in your opinion, where am I going when I die?



Not really, what about the catholic point of view of purgatory?

Or the islamic way of everyone going to heaven (because allah forgives everyone) and it is the degree of how close you are to him that makes a difference.




Fair enough on the spanking thing ... wrong place anyway Agreeing to disagree.