I'd take what you wrote as evidence of this - but I'm afraid the bible was not written in english. The NIV says murder.
But believe what you want to believe.

This kind of reminds me of the Monty Python sketch in "Life of Brian" where they try to get an uprising against the Romans ...

Well? What have the romans ever done for us?
Medicine, straight roads, plumbing, law and order ...
Ok, apart from Medicine, straight roads, plumbing, law and order, what have the romans ever done for us?

this is

The bible says thou shalt not kill
No it doesnt
Yes it does, right here, here, here and here.

Ok, well apart from there, there, there and there, the bible doesnt say thou shalt not kill ...

Sorry. It's the Monty Python reference. Love Monty Python.

... and you know what, I had my previous post written before LJ had even posted something, they are that obvious!



SNORT!!!!

NONE OF THEM WERE - HELLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

I hope you're not charging for this comedy act.

You read it in the original texts????

I doubt it. Therefore you are reading a document copied and translated how many times over????

Eljay wrote:




The old tried and true "I-have-walked-the-path-you-are-now walking.." ploy does not hold any influence with me.

You have NO CLUE the path I have walked. You could read every one of my posts in this club and you still have no clue of the paths I have walked, so don't think that "I've been there" tactic means a thing.

No path is a waste of time. All paths lead to God.. after all, God is all there is.

The post you responded to was indeed a general opinion of some "born again" Christians that I have gotten to know and does not by a long shot include all Christians, and does not describe you at all, so you need not have responded.

In fact, you are probably one of the ones those other "born again" Christians refer to as not a "true" Christian, but it is difficult for me to tell the so-called "true" Christians from the so-called "false" Christians. Personally if a person tells me they are Christian I take their word for it.

JB:

No, for you poor people at the back, by the toilets, I have installed a speaker, so you can at least hear it.

Just have a minute here tonight...

Beautiful People Here....Allow me to share this once more.....

When a man becomes BORN AGAIN ,the HOLY SPIRIT livng in him now, leads and guides him into ALL truth...including the TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD.

In other words , WHEN a man becomes born again ,he is not beng lead by MAN'S interpretation of God's Word( hence the many different denominations), but he is NOW being lead by THE HOLY SPIRIT , as his Teacher of the Word of God.

In other words, he is not FOLLOWING MAN'S INTERPRETATION, BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT'S INTERPRETATION OF THE WORD OF GOD.

But if a man is NOT born again, he will therefore NOT be able to rigthly divide the Word of God...... and therefore the Bible WILL APPEAR to be a book of absolute nonsesne and many contradictions to him...and understandably so....simply because he does not yet have the Holy Spirit living in him, to SHOW him the truth.

But NOT so with a born again Christian.....cause the Holy Spirit living in the born again believer, REVEALS to the him the TRUTH about God's Word.....and WHEN the HOLY SPIRIT is LEADING AND GIVING THE CORRECT INTERPRETATION OF GOD'S WORD...HEY.....QUESS WHAT..... THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS IN GOD'S WORD TO BE FOUND !!!!!

NOT ONE!!!


Be Blessed, Precious People here.......
Hey.... I Love You All .. regardless of Your different beliefs here ....

God Loves You All Too..Very Very Much.

Good nite and God Bless You All......

Good thing. When are the waitress' coming around.

They havent been around yet?
Damn!! Im sorry ... they should have done at least one round of ice creams.
The rotten tomatoes will be available toward the end of the third act ... about 10 minutes after I have left, however the greengrocer across the road is very amenable to selling at half price.

sorry you can't look at the ROOTS and decide that is what is meant in its different form where being used, if it had meant that then it would have been used - it did not mean that to be the "only" interpretation, if you insist on making that the "only" interpretation then you have forever changed the meaning of what it was meant to inform the reader as to it's possible meaning's. you can think what you will but if everyone starts going to a root word for what they think is the correct meaning then you may as well just throw the book away - for you have lessened it by your intentions to prove a point.

guys you cannot go back and look at root word's and claim that this is why you think something means different or only that thing - strong's and other interlinear greek english or other languages show the exact word as used in context within the statement's made -for one to look then to root's thinking that that is what is meant is just fooling yourselves!! you have to take the word used for that english/other language and keep as it is written whether you like it or not - no wonder your so screwed up with what you think it say's!!! for example

strong's - matt jesus says do not kill - that is greek translation of the exact word - fon yoo o - 5407 - not 5406 or 5408 etc.. if it was then they would have used one or the other -it means what the word means!! And if it has more than one meaning, then it's stating it can be taken any of those way's not just as "murder"!! it say's it can mean murder, to be a murder, "kill""!!, do murder, slay!! in otherwords jesus is saying any form of life taking - not just murder or premeditated acts of life taking. if you can't see this, then the whole point of discussing this is useless and senseless.

No one has read the original bible. It's not in existance anymore. If you want to play symantics, i can play to. Murder is killing ANYONE human being. David vs goliath. Moses and the first born sons of egypt. If we are assuming the bible is correct and god speaks through the pople, then crusades 1, 2 and 3. Murder is killing, Killing is murder. Look it up in the dictonary. Though feel free to say that god doesn't know how to communicate very well, and he ment something else.



We where just showing all the differnt contradictions. Essentially what your saying is that the bible shouldn't be taken literly. That you can't believe everything you read in it word for word. you need to have something so that you can ignore the false, and get the truth.

Basicly your saying the bible is a work a fiction. If you believe hard enough, you can make it fact. I did that when i was 10. It's called imagination.



You mean, she doesn't believe what you believe, and doesn't agree with you, therefore she must not be christian. Thats essentially saying 'if you dont like my shoes you can't be in my clubhouse'. Grow the **** up.



I agree. I'm so freakin sick of the 'lets put my fingers in my ears and stick out my tongue' mentality. Faith isn't the absence of logic. Believing in something when there is proof against it is foolish. You wouldn't stay with a man who beat you. It shows he's a bad man. Having faith that he will change, will just allow him to beat you longer. Instead of turning a blind eye, perhaps its wise to open the eye and see the problems, and then adjust accordingly. Sweeping stuff under the rug doesn't get you into heaven.



The irony is that is one of the contradictions. No man shall ever see god...which is now, except for these couple of guys.

I responded to your post in the fashion I did because you made blanket statements about what "born again Christians" do in terms of their blind worship, etc. and I gave you a perspective that contracted your analysis. It wasn't an intention to "prove you wrong", just expand your perspective.

And unless you are misleading everyone by falseifying your profile - I know quite well the path you are walking on. I spent well over 20 years studying and experiencing metaphysics, from the Tarot, to Astrology, astral projection, white magic, psychic readings, at one time I'd done the numerology charts for half od the Spiritualists in the Haight-Ashbury and Harvard Square, the two Metephysical capitols of the East and West coast.
So unless you've come to some new epiphanies about New Age philosophies, then I'd say I've got a fairly good idea about that path you're walking on. Likely more of an idea than you have about the Christian path I'm walking down.

And not being a Christian yourself, I can't see how you could determine what kind of Christian I am. There-in lies the problem though. Jim Jones called himself a Christian, as did Applegate. Eventually their actions did not show their claims to be valid. There are so many "Self proclaimed believers" whose actions contradict the very definition of the term - that it causes those who do not believe to make blanket statements against all believers over the actions of those who claim to be, but are not. So merely hearing someone claim to be a Christian should not be the standard by which to establish ones belief.

People are what they do, not what they claim.

I can't tell you how many "actors" I've met in my profession who have never been on the stage or in front of a camera. More who claim to be than who actually do.

No I haven't. But neither have you. I'm the one who asked the question. You're the one who made the statement.

Like I said - believe what you want.

tribo.

as living epistles, we have a living confidence. Call it conviction, call it credence, call it the truthfulness of God, call it reliance upon Christ for salvation, call it constancy in such a profession, call it truth itself, the gospel that we are witness to.

That pistis is built on peitho and that confidence is part of it, then what confidence is lacking when describing the unmeritorious fictions of Joseph Smith's imagination?

His fictional writing is not a gospel at all, and it doesn't even begin to fathom the depths of grace, as it only mentioned grace once, and not in context of salvation, let alone by faith.

Faith, be it simply put, is in Christ and it is the faith of Jesus that is at the core of any use of His name.

I am sure upon careful study, the word I used as definitive of faith, as given in scripture, holds merit, for it is incumbent upon one Jesus Christ and His words.

Whereas Jesus has shared that faith even as a small thing like a mustard seed can grow into a large tree harboring birds at rest from flight, but we as men doubt and have not the faith of even that little seed. Is that not a lack of confidence, tribo?

Splitting hairs gets you as far off topic as you intend, but I am reminded of why I said what I said, since it is not lightly taken by me to affront the Book of Mormon, but in light of it having been attributed to the Holy Spirit, well...that is just not going to stand as fact, and likewise, your lack of knowledge of the intent of the Word of God is likewise not authority for you to profess to be a teacher of anything not having apprehended you.

Though you caught my misprint in my first post, I would soon enough have discovered it, as I had, albeit in my sloppiness of the rush of the morning past.

When considering things Christian, Christ is entirely relevant, tribo.

Faith is cornerstone in Christ and is Christ, for it is by faith that all things are created and spoken into existence, tribo, but not by man ; by God alone, and the spokesman for the Creator is Jesus Christ. Period. There is no other spokesman....

And it is entirely about confidence.

But by grace are we found to have been given place, and through faith.

And faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

And if you excuse God speaking to your heart because it is not confidently received by your heart, then it isn't convincing to your heart either, is it?

the first thing written in response to you here is a rather succinct overview of all that the word, faith(pistis), has come to mean in its entirety. Don't worry, you will find it so.

But what you won't find so is faith dwelling in your heart as anything more than an excuse to walk away from Jesus Christ ; and to that end, you could not possibly see the word as meaning confidence at all.

It has none of you. That is apparent.


Some things, tribo, are better left to quietly lie still.

This is one of them.

I am not inclined to battle with you over your falsehoods and milignant misinterpretations of scripture.

Its clear that false teachers of Christ abound here with impunity and self professed autonomy, all supposing that importunity has apprehended their several motives in pureness of thought, but that is far from the truth, which by the way, is another definition of faith...truth.

Tribo, you are commiting the vey act that you ask others not to. In the ten commandments it says "Do not Kill/murder." (chose your word)

There's no "qualifier" there. Nor is this the only time the subject is brought up. Ectended exegesis on this topic would immediately bring up numerous points that would appear to have God contradicting himself. Required sacrifices for one. Impossible to do without killing the beast.
Also - anyone having sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.

Do you think they turned to Moses and said - "We can't do that, that would be killing someone."?
Or that's a contradiction. Let's not follow this God.

No - I think they understood clearly the differences between the commandments on the tablets and their social responsibilities, and did not see it as a major "contradiction" to the commands of God.

Nor do I think the disciple thought it a contradiction when Jesus refered to the commandment in Matthew. He likened being angry with someone who murders/kills. Now - why would he do that, if the commandment refered to merely taking a life? Surely he was well aware that the Isrealites had been to war. Were in fact Commanded to.

The issue is not taking the "letter" of the verse, but the "spirit" of it. Correct?
(and I may be mistaken, but I had thought you've adressed this concept before)

That being the case, what is really being said in the 6th commandment?

What would be the point in having any commandment saying thou shalt not to kill or murder when clearly God commanded people be killed without mercy in the taking of the promised land?

To justify this, you are saying, thou shalt not kill or murder except when someone tells you to while claiming it is God's commandment. (someone like Joshua, or Moses or anyone who claims that God commanded it.)

Therefore any ruthless ruler (Like George W. Bush) who claims that God told him to do this could order the killing of anyone he wanted. (Which I'm sure he probably can.) He can call it war or he can call it a command from God, since he too claims to hear God's voice.

It does not matter to me if the word is "kill" or "murder," when ordered to take your sword and lop of the heads of children, I don't call that war, I call that murder and that is what Joshua claims that God commanded. That is plain and simple logic.

That is, if you want to believe the Biblical account of the taking of the promised land in the book of Joshua.

Personally, I don't know if that is a true historical account or not. If it is, then what I see is a blood thirsty bunch of invaders and murderers claiming to be "obeying God" by killing the evil doers of the so-called "promised land," then they promptly took their farms and their vinyards and all of their land for their own. They were invading thieves and murderers. And quite frankly I am sick of hearing people refer to them as "God's chosen People." That's sick.

I don't care about stories about the people being "evil" and sacrificing their children to their gods either. That may or may not have been true, but it does not justify going in and slaughtering them.

I don't believe that "God" or any holy personage was involved in that battle or in any battle. Does god really take sides? Does god really favor a particular race of people? You have got to be kidding.

The biggest contradiction in the Bible is the idea that the god represented is a loving and merciful god when he comes off more like being a waring slave master who lusts for power and worship.

Love thy neighbor? Nope... for Joshua it was kill them all and take the promised land.

And the war for the promised land IS STILL GOING ON!!

STOP THAT WAR! STOP SUPPORTING ZIONISM!

What do you think the war in Iraq is all about? What do you thing the tension with Iran is all about?

Its about Israel and that stupid idea about the stupid promised land. And many Christians are supporting that idea like they believe it.

JB

Psalm 56