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| Topic: NO Contradictions in the Bible ..... | |
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It is not murder to kill someone who is trying to kill you. Say a man with a gun breaks into your house and you shoot him first, that's not murder. If you think it is, you are confused as to what murder is. sorry spidercmb .."kill" means something has to die ...murder is just a sub-cateogry to identify what type of killing took place..there is also self defense, man slaugther,involutary manslaughter etc. ..a kill may be within the law and some are against the law but they all pertains to "kill" |
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It is not murder to kill someone who is trying to kill you. Say a man with a gun breaks into your house and you shoot him first, that's not murder. If you think it is, you are confused as to what murder is. sorry spidercmb .."kill" means something has to die ...murder is just a sub-cateogry to identify what type of killing took place..there is also self defense, man slaugther,involutary manslaughter etc. ..a kill may be within the law and some are against the law but they all pertains to "kill" Right...so what are you confused on? The original texts clearly mean MURDER. So what is your argument? Why should we change the meaning of the original texts to mean "kill"? |
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Most battles are premeditated. When you sign up for the military, you go in knowing you will most likely kill someone. Just because you have a uniform, and its goverment sanctioned doesn't make it any less murder. to claim self defence, or to protect someone or something, you can't attack first. There is a huge difference between defending your house from an attacker, and going to someone elses house and attacking first saying 'they threatened me'. What about the concentration camps? I dont think the nazi's there hated the jews. Was that ok then? I would like to think god would hold accountable for all those deaths. The only way one country can enforce it's will onto another is through war. Without war, would there be any Jews left? Hitler's plan was to wipe out all of the Jews in the Middle East once he was done with Europe. Construction was begun on death camps in the Middle East while WWII was ongoing. War can rightly be used to protect the lives of more people than the war will kill. Wars of conquest and aggression probably do lead to violations of the various commandments. The concentration camps are clearly covered by many of the laws given to the Israelites. Anyone who kidnaps a person in order to harm or enslave the victim must be put to death, for instance. That would cover anyone who helped hold a kidnapped person against his/her will. So let me get this streight. Killing a single person is wrong. Killing thousands to the sound of trumpets is ok? Your saying that wars of conquest, and aggression probably lead to violations. Have you ever been in a fight or a battle? You don't sit there and wait to be killed then defend yourself. You attack another human aggresivly, then you kill them. Then you go find another. Thats war. The fact it's claimed as nessisasry is a cop out. The bible says though shall not kill. fine, i'll give you though shall not murder. I'll even give you your definition, which you said is premeditated. Thus any time someone plans someone elses death, and carry's it out, it's called murder. So ambushing an enemy army, with the intent to kill them, and killing them would be mass murder. |
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It is not murder to kill someone who is trying to kill you. Say a man with a gun breaks into your house and you shoot him first, that's not murder. If you think it is, you are confused as to what murder is. sorry spidercmb .."kill" means something has to die ...murder is just a sub-cateogry to identify what type of killing took place..there is also self defense, man slaugther,involutary manslaughter etc. ..a kill may be within the law and some are against the law but they all pertains to "kill" Right...so what are you confused on? The original texts clearly mean MURDER. So what is your argument? Why should we change the meaning of the original texts to mean "kill"? sorry once again sorry spidercmb but the pact between God and Moses was a conspirsy to murder others and you can't murder without killing someone...wheather the original text meant "murder" or "kill" God asked Moses to do both ...again it's no way to spin out this |
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Before this thread runs amok (like it hasn't already) I think everyone here can agree that the taking of another life is generally not going to be God's first choice for anyone. However - there are varying degree's quantifying the "wrong" as it were. In a eutopia, there would never be a circumstance that would warrent "killing" anyone. It is only under degree's of extreme agression that justification is even considered. These are exceptions to the commandment. These would be self-defense, those who go off to war, or human error in a dangerous environment. (driving in a car, getting a flat tire and causing a fatal accident comes to mind)
As with any commandment - God isn't necessarily forbidding the choice to break the "law", just making man aware that for any wrong action there is going to be a consequence. Despite the level of justification - the degree of "pre-meditation" is going to be met with the degree of consequence. However, the consequence is not necessarily swift, nor immediate. But God is not mocked. He's fully aware of the intent, and expects man to face the reality of their own actions. This - to me - is the intention of the commandment in the first place. I'm more than willing to adress or consider alternative interpretations here - but it seems petty to try and equate a soldier going to war with an unrepentant serial killer. |
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Before this thread runs amok (like it hasn't already) I think everyone here can agree that the taking of another life is generally not going to be God's first choice for anyone. However - there are varying degree's quantifying the "wrong" as it were. In a eutopia, there would never be a circumstance that would warrent "killing" anyone. It is only under degree's of extreme agression that justification is even considered. These are exceptions to the commandment. These would be self-defense, those who go off to war, or human error in a dangerous environment. (driving in a car, getting a flat tire and causing a fatal accident comes to mind) As with any commandment - God isn't necessarily forbidding the choice to break the "law", just making man aware that for any wrong action there is going to be a consequence. Despite the level of justification - the degree of "pre-meditation" is going to be met with the degree of consequence. However, the consequence is not necessarily swift, nor immediate. But God is not mocked. He's fully aware of the intent, and expects man to face the reality of their own actions. This - to me - is the intention of the commandment in the first place. I'm more than willing to adress or consider alternative interpretations here - but it seems petty to try and equate a soldier going to war with an unrepentant serial killer. see "Eljay" it is you that is making this thread run amok...you and spidercmb keep making up examples as to what to "kill" means but "thou shalt not kill" has nothing to do with any of those examples because it was God that gave the order to Moses to "kill and murder" when God clearly said that "thou shalt not kill" |
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Before this thread runs amok (like it hasn't already) I think everyone here can agree that the taking of another life is generally not going to be God's first choice for anyone. However - there are varying degree's quantifying the "wrong" as it were. In a eutopia, there would never be a circumstance that would warrent "killing" anyone. It is only under degree's of extreme agression that justification is even considered. These are exceptions to the commandment. These would be self-defense, those who go off to war, or human error in a dangerous environment. (driving in a car, getting a flat tire and causing a fatal accident comes to mind) As with any commandment - God isn't necessarily forbidding the choice to break the "law", just making man aware that for any wrong action there is going to be a consequence. Despite the level of justification - the degree of "pre-meditation" is going to be met with the degree of consequence. However, the consequence is not necessarily swift, nor immediate. But God is not mocked. He's fully aware of the intent, and expects man to face the reality of their own actions. This - to me - is the intention of the commandment in the first place. I'm more than willing to adress or consider alternative interpretations here - but it seems petty to try and equate a soldier going to war with an unrepentant serial killer. Just wanted to give my input on this issue. I am formerly a born again Christian myself...turned atheist, just so you know. I just wanted to point out, that I disagree with what you have just said. A sin, is a sin, is a sin. As you well know, if you are as versed in the bible as you say. There were many more commandments than just 10! According to God's word, even thinking about committing a sin, is the same as acting it out. It does not matter what your intent is, sin, is sin and all sins are weighted equally in God's eyes. Once again, according to the bible. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God! |
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Most battles are premeditated. When you sign up for the military, you go in knowing you will most likely kill someone. Just because you have a uniform, and its goverment sanctioned doesn't make it any less murder. to claim self defence, or to protect someone or something, you can't attack first. There is a huge difference between defending your house from an attacker, and going to someone elses house and attacking first saying 'they threatened me'. What about the concentration camps? I dont think the nazi's there hated the jews. Was that ok then? I would like to think god would hold accountable for all those deaths. The only way one country can enforce it's will onto another is through war. Without war, would there be any Jews left? Hitler's plan was to wipe out all of the Jews in the Middle East once he was done with Europe. Construction was begun on death camps in the Middle East while WWII was ongoing. War can rightly be used to protect the lives of more people than the war will kill. Wars of conquest and aggression probably do lead to violations of the various commandments. The concentration camps are clearly covered by many of the laws given to the Israelites. Anyone who kidnaps a person in order to harm or enslave the victim must be put to death, for instance. That would cover anyone who helped hold a kidnapped person against his/her will. So let me get this streight. Killing a single person is wrong. Killing thousands to the sound of trumpets is ok? Your saying that wars of conquest, and aggression probably lead to violations. Have you ever been in a fight or a battle? You don't sit there and wait to be killed then defend yourself. You attack another human aggresivly, then you kill them. Then you go find another. Thats war. The fact it's claimed as nessisasry is a cop out. The bible says though shall not kill. fine, i'll give you though shall not murder. I'll even give you your definition, which you said is premeditated. Thus any time someone plans someone elses death, and carry's it out, it's called murder. So ambushing an enemy army, with the intent to kill them, and killing them would be mass murder. You are fairly new here, so let me explain something: I don't appreciate strawman fallacies. Don't twist my words into a mockery of what I posted and pretend that is what I posted. If a country must go to war to protect themselves or protect others from aggression, then the Bible does not call that a sin. That's the facts. You can be offended by that if you want, that's fine. But don't put words into my mouth, okay? |
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It is not murder to kill someone who is trying to kill you. Say a man with a gun breaks into your house and you shoot him first, that's not murder. If you think it is, you are confused as to what murder is. sorry spidercmb .."kill" means something has to die ...murder is just a sub-cateogry to identify what type of killing took place..there is also self defense, man slaugther,involutary manslaughter etc. ..a kill may be within the law and some are against the law but they all pertains to "kill" Right...so what are you confused on? The original texts clearly mean MURDER. So what is your argument? Why should we change the meaning of the original texts to mean "kill"? sorry once again sorry spidercmb but the pact between God and Moses was a conspirsy to murder others and you can't murder without killing someone...wheather the original text meant "murder" or "kill" God asked Moses to do both ...again it's no way to spin out this Oh yeah...that's the reason I quit discussing topics with you. You rip the scriptures out of context and insist on your own twisted defintions for every word. You aren't here to discuss, you are here to insult Christianity. |
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It is not murder to kill someone who is trying to kill you. Say a man with a gun breaks into your house and you shoot him first, that's not murder. If you think it is, you are confused as to what murder is. sorry spidercmb .."kill" means something has to die ...murder is just a sub-cateogry to identify what type of killing took place..there is also self defense, man slaugther,involutary manslaughter etc. ..a kill may be within the law and some are against the law but they all pertains to "kill" Right...so what are you confused on? The original texts clearly mean MURDER. So what is your argument? Why should we change the meaning of the original texts to mean "kill"? sorry once again sorry spidercmb but the pact between God and Moses was a conspirsy to murder others and you can't murder without killing someone...wheather the original text meant "murder" or "kill" God asked Moses to do both ...again it's no way to spin out this Oh yeah...that's the reason I quit discussing topics with you. You rip the scriptures out of context and insist on your own twisted defintions for every word. You aren't here to discuss, you are here to insult Christianity. so "spidercmb" it's just a tab bit hard to rip "thou shalt not kill" out of content when it's worded in the bible as "thou shalt not kill" .. it's in the bible that God himself say "thou shalt not kill" and beside I seen the movie "The Ten Commandment" and Charleston Heston as Moses came down the mountain with two stone tablets or maybe he was stone but anyway he said that God said "Thou shalt not kill" and then threw the tablets at the fornicators and blew them up so "spidercmb" please don't hate the messenger and try to make me the bad guy ...I merely here to place you on the path to true rightousness "Thou Shalt not Kill" means don't kill ..so God shouldn't have told Moses to kill....it's that simple |
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It is not murder to kill someone who is trying to kill you. Say a man with a gun breaks into your house and you shoot him first, that's not murder. If you think it is, you are confused as to what murder is. sorry spidercmb .."kill" means something has to die ...murder is just a sub-cateogry to identify what type of killing took place..there is also self defense, man slaugther,involutary manslaughter etc. ..a kill may be within the law and some are against the law but they all pertains to "kill" Right...so what are you confused on? The original texts clearly mean MURDER. So what is your argument? Why should we change the meaning of the original texts to mean "kill"? sorry once again sorry spidercmb but the pact between God and Moses was a conspirsy to murder others and you can't murder without killing someone...wheather the original text meant "murder" or "kill" God asked Moses to do both ...again it's no way to spin out this Oh yeah...that's the reason I quit discussing topics with you. You rip the scriptures out of context and insist on your own twisted defintions for every word. You aren't here to discuss, you are here to insult Christianity. so "spidercmb" it's just a tab bit hard to rip "thou shalt not kill" out of content when it's worded in the bible as "thou shalt not kill" .. it's in the bible that God himself say "thou shalt not kill" and beside I seen the movie "The Ten Commandment" and Charleston Heston as Moses came down the mountain with two stone tablets or maybe he was stone but anyway he said that God said "Thou shalt not kill" and then threw the tablets at the fornicators and blew them up so "spidercmb" please don't hate the messenger and try to make me the bad guy ...I merely here to place you on the path to true rightousness "Thou Shalt not Kill" means don't kill ..so God shouldn't have told Moses to kill....it's that simple |
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Funch if your going to blame anyone then put the blame where it belongs....Pharaoh was to blame.....for not letting God's people go...Time and time again with each plague that Mosses told Pharaoh Let God's people go...He did not so the wrath came down.....
Do you honestly think that God wanted to do it.....Heck no....but don't listen and pay the price. |
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Funch if your going to blame anyone then put the blame where it belongs....Pharaoh was to blame.....for not letting God's people go...Time and time again with each plague that Mosses told Pharaoh Let God's people go...He did not so the wrath came down..... Do you honestly think that God wanted to do it.....Heck no....but don't listen and pay the price. Which means God broke his own law...thus making him a sinner! 
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Funch if your going to blame anyone then put the blame where it belongs....Pharaoh was to blame.....for not letting God's people go...Time and time again with each plague that Mosses told Pharaoh Let God's people go...He did not so the wrath came down..... Do you honestly think that God wanted to do it.....Heck no....but don't listen and pay the price. Which means God broke his own law...thus making him a sinner! How so buffry? |
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He didn't like being disobeyed. Commanded them to kill. If the bible states that the thought is just as much as a sin as the sin itself, then God killed those people and broke the commandment, thou shalt not kill. Not trying to be an antagonist, just stating an observation. I believe that it is hypocritical to state that others do something and then do the opposite when you see fit. But I'm sure according to you, he had a higher plan.
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Funch if your going to blame anyone then put the blame where it belongs....Pharaoh was to blame.....for not letting God's people go...Time and time again with each plague that Mosses told Pharaoh Let God's people go...He did not so the wrath came down..... Do you honestly think that God wanted to do it.....Heck no....but don't listen and pay the price. "feralcatlady"...this has nothing to do with Pharoah because God gave "The Ten Commandments after Moses and the chosen ones left Pharoah....this is about God telling Moses "thou shalt not kill" and then God telling Moses "thou shalt kill" ..a total contradiction come on just admit it...this is a contradiction that can't be disputed |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 06/27/08 04:40 PM
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Funch if your going to blame anyone then put the blame where it belongs....Pharaoh was to blame.....for not letting God's people go...Time and time again with each plague that Mosses told Pharaoh Let God's people go...He did not so the wrath came down..... Do you honestly think that God wanted to do it.....Heck no....but don't listen and pay the price.  It's just like as if I told some thief to give me back my purse or else and then he refused.  If I told him I would blow him away if he did not do as I said and he refused.... and I blew him away. Heck... geee .. he MADE ME DO IT. Not my fault right? He did not listen to my demands! Do you honestly think I wanted to do it? ....Heck no... but he wouldn't listen to me and he paid the price.  Now I think I should be justified in blowing his head off and even his entire family's heads off if he does not do as I demand. After all, I have the gun right? That makes me right. Now please, Feralcatlady don't be so blind as to believe that just because some being claims to be god and makes demands and threats that he is justified in killing innocents just because his demands were not met. That don't make it right. You just think it is because in your eyes your almighty god can do no wrong even if what he does IS WRONG AND IMMORAL AND AGAINST HIS OWN LAW. After all, your almighty god is above the law and has the right to kill anyone he wants. Give me a break. This so-called god is a bully. He is not the creator of the universe. He is not the one true god. He is a false god and a bully who would do such a thing. And yet you believe this of your god and you justify it and approve it. JB |
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Funch if your going to blame anyone then put the blame where it belongs....Pharaoh was to blame.....for not letting God's people go...Time and time again with each plague that Mosses told Pharaoh Let God's people go...He did not so the wrath came down..... Do you honestly think that God wanted to do it.....Heck no....but don't listen and pay the price. "feralcatlady"...this has nothing to do with Pharoah because God gave "The Ten Commandments after Moses and the chosen ones left Pharoah....this is about God telling Moses "thou shalt not kill" and then God telling Moses "thou shalt kill" ..a total contradiction come on just admit it...this is a contradiction that can't be disputed It is not a contradiction at all.....Here is why..... Pharoah forced God's hand in hardening his heart....He was given chance after chance to release God's people...and not until his son was taken did he....and then after he even sent his men after Moses and God's people.....and of course were destroyed in the red sea...... God gives freewill he does not take it away...Pharoah chose not God...and therefore Pharoah paid the ultimate price. Pharoah from the get go had a hardened heart......When the Lord God knew that Pharoah would not relent is when he said I will hardened his heart for My Glory. Moses kept asking Pharoah and Pharoah kept saying phooyey on your God Moses. Now remember also that Pharoah had worshiped many God's and each plaque brought onto Egypt was symbolic of each of the demon gods that he worshiped. It had nothing to do with God taking his freewill......It did however have everything to do with Pharoah's choice.....He wanted to believe in his false gods.....then by golly he had to pay the price. As with people now.....have a hardened heart to God....and you never will see as it as intended, you will never hear what is meant to be......and of course your choice......freewill The Ten Commandments were written by God for the people. God is GOD......Nothing and I mean nothing croses God....and his plans for his people. |
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Funch if your going to blame anyone then put the blame where it belongs....Pharaoh was to blame.....for not letting God's people go...Time and time again with each plague that Mosses told Pharaoh Let God's people go...He did not so the wrath came down..... Do you honestly think that God wanted to do it.....Heck no....but don't listen and pay the price. "feralcatlady"...this has nothing to do with Pharoah because God gave "The Ten Commandments after Moses and the chosen ones left Pharoah....this is about God telling Moses "thou shalt not kill" and then God telling Moses "thou shalt kill" ..a total contradiction come on just admit it...this is a contradiction that can't be disputed It is not a contradiction at all.....Here is why..... Pharoah forced God's hand in hardening his heart....He was given chance after chance to release God's people...and not until his son was taken did he....and then after he even sent his men after Moses and God's people.....and of course were destroyed in the red sea...... God gives freewill he does not take it away...Pharoah chose not God...and therefore Pharoah paid the ultimate price. Pharoah from the get go had a hardened heart......When the Lord God knew that Pharoah would not relent is when he said I will hardened his heart for My Glory. Moses kept asking Pharoah and Pharoah kept saying phooyey on your God Moses. Now remember also that Pharoah had worshiped many God's and each plaque brought onto Egypt was symbolic of each of the demon gods that he worshiped. It had nothing to do with God taking his freewill......It did however have everything to do with Pharoah's choice.....He wanted to believe in his false gods.....then by golly he had to pay the price. As with people now.....have a hardened heart to God....and you never will see as it as intended, you will never hear what is meant to be......and of course your choice......freewill The Ten Commandments were written by God for the people. God is GOD......Nothing and I mean nothing croses God....and his plans for his people. I was referring to when God led Moses to the Promiseland and instructed the Jews to kill every living breathing person that occupied the land to be killed. All because he didn't want them to thin out the bloodline. Sounds kinda like Hitler to me! I think that, it was all disgusting. |
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Funch if your going to blame anyone then put the blame where it belongs....Pharaoh was to blame.....for not letting God's people go...Time and time again with each plague that Mosses told Pharaoh Let God's people go...He did not so the wrath came down..... Do you honestly think that God wanted to do it.....Heck no....but don't listen and pay the price. "feralcatlady"...this has nothing to do with Pharoah because God gave "The Ten Commandments after Moses and the chosen ones left Pharoah....this is about God telling Moses "thou shalt not kill" and then God telling Moses "thou shalt kill" ..a total contradiction come on just admit it...this is a contradiction that can't be disputed It is not a contradiction at all.....Here is why..... Pharoah forced God's hand in hardening his heart....He was given chance after chance to release God's people...and not until his son was taken did he....and then after he even sent his men after Moses and God's people.....and of course were destroyed in the red sea...... God gives freewill he does not take it away...Pharoah chose not God...and therefore Pharoah paid the ultimate price. Pharoah from the get go had a hardened heart......When the Lord God knew that Pharoah would not relent is when he said I will hardened his heart for My Glory. Moses kept asking Pharoah and Pharoah kept saying phooyey on your God Moses. Now remember also that Pharoah had worshiped many God's and each plaque brought onto Egypt was symbolic of each of the demon gods that he worshiped. It had nothing to do with God taking his freewill......It did however have everything to do with Pharoah's choice.....He wanted to believe in his false gods.....then by golly he had to pay the price. As with people now.....have a hardened heart to God....and you never will see as it as intended, you will never hear what is meant to be......and of course your choice......freewill The Ten Commandments were written by God for the people. God is GOD......Nothing and I mean nothing croses God....and his plans for his people. again "Pharoah-catlady" this has nothing to do with Pharoah ...didn't Moses led an Exodus from Egypt and through the desert for forty years before God even gave Moses "The Ten Commandments" and told him "thou shalt not kill" so "Pharoah-catlady" ..forget about the Pharoah years ..think of "Pharaoh being in Moses part 1...and "thou shalt not kill" was in Moses part 2 the desert years because you keep getting the two incidents mixed up "thou shalt not kill" is one of the contradictions and hypocrisies of the bible...it can not be disputed... |
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