Red:If that's the case then why all this staunch, unbendable, closed minded bigoty? Of course that's not a biblical question, so consider it rhetorical. (no answer required)

Kat:
You talking to me?? My heart...my thinking...is more of my own learning and what has changed due to circumstances. Maybe just imaginings or even wishes. Maybe even coming to terms of something bigger than me and the actions or thoughts coming together within MY learning.

You think me a bigot???

Kat

Red, King James thought that there was a divine right of kings.

1Samuel 8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
1Samuel 8:6 But the thing displeased, Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Samuel 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign, over them.

What do you think?

Kat, of course I don't see you as a bigot. It was just thinking out loud so to 'write'.

Rainbow, "the devine right of Kings" that meant that King James was devinely inspired and therefore had the right to change the Bible. Is that what you are saying?

If that's the case than the Bible can be rewritten via cultural change - is that correct as well? But how do we know who is devinely inspired.

Actually I guess I misunderstood the whole Holy Spirit thing then, cos doesn't that make everyone devinely inspired? Well at least everyone who has the Holy Spirit within them.

But here's a big question - How do we Know when someone is full of the H.S. oops let me spell that out, Holy Spirit.??

from "The Imitation of Christ" Book 1, chapter 15, by Thomas Kempis.

"We frequently judge that things are as we wish them to be, for through personal feeling true perspective is easily lost."

"If God were the sole object of our desire, we should not be disturbed so easily by opposition to our opinions."

===============================================================================================

Dear Daddy from Heaven, please grant me the internal peace to understand that i'm not always right. Give me the patience to be quiet and listen the others. Bless me with your constant presence, so i don't get disturbed by others' opinions. I ask you this in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ who lives and reigns in the unity of the Holy Spirit and is God forever and ever.

Amen

I thought I would start a new thread because question inspired me.

Are you pulling my leg Di? I am in no way even close to getting into heaven. That is if I am to believe all that is written. I am a sinner that continues to sin. I question. And question. Not a good thing for someone heaven bound. I lie. I lie to keep my job. You see...one cannot be related to anyone to work there. I am related to two. I need a job. This is the way I keep it.

I wish I had what some have. Isn't that gluttony? I sloth. Isn't that being lazy? I am that at times. I am sure there is more...but you get the gist of it.

But thank you anyway...
Kat

Breathe on me, Breath of God, fill me with life anew,
that I may love what thou dost love,
and do what thou wouldst do.
Breathe on me, Breath of God,
until my heart is pure,
until with thee I will one will,
to do and to endure.
Breathe on me, Breath of God,
till I am wholly thine,
till all this earthly part of me glows with thy fire divine.
Breathe on me, Breath of God, so shall I never die,
but live with thee the perfect life of thine eternity.

Lyrics by Edwin Hatch (1835-1889),

I need your breath in me to make me more like you.
To make me want what you want, and to do what you would do.
That breath is the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit.

The part about purity talks about endurance
The tests that we face now in life
help build up our endurance.

exactly.

that is where it starts for all, isn't it?

All else falls into place as the Holy Spirit leads.

All knowledge, all understanding, and every good desire to please God as He leads, not as we lead.

Brittysweet love.

Bless you, dear

(((( ))))

That was wonderful. Thank you.

Kat

you are welcome Kat.

beautiful

King James – from Scotland to England

James inherited the throne of England after the death of his mother's cousin, Queen Elizabeth I. James was never a very
popular monarch among the people of England. He laid much of the groundwork that would eventually lead to the beheading of
his heir Charles I during the English Civil War, but because of his political skills, his rule was relatively stable. James married Anne of Denmark by proxy on August 20, 1589, and in person on November 23, 1589 and again in person in January 21, 1590.

They had eight children, of whom only three lived beyond infancy: Henry, Prince of Wales- (February 19, 1594 - November 6, 1612), Elizabeth Stuart - (August 19, 1596 - February 13, 1662), and King Charles I of England, Scotland and Ireland - (November 19, 1600 - January 30, 1649).

James dissolved the English Parliament on February 8, 1622, following a dispute involving parliamentary criticisms of a
marriage proposed by James, of his son Charles to Princess Maria Anna of Spain. King James was quoted as saying,

"Monarchy is the greatest thing on earth. Kings are rightly called gods since just like God they have power of life and death over all their subjects in all things. They are accountable to God only ... so it is a crime for anyone to argue about what a king can do."

King James is primarily remembered for authorizing the production of the King James Version of the Bible. King James had nothing to do with the translating the Bible, he merely authorized it and provided financing for its production.

King James died in 1625 of gout and senility. He is buried in the Henry VII chapel in Westminster Abbey.

Romans 8

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Well I think all my comrads have answered beautifully and nothing I could add except knowing if you have the holy spirit in you.......The only thing I can say to that is you just know....Your life changes and all for the better....you look at things a lot different redy when you are walking the narrow path that is the Lord's. It is easy to walk the big fat path and do as you please......but in the long run I think those that do know they do....

As far as gays and lesbians....this is a struggle for me....I know the Lord God never intended for man to be with man or woman to be with woman. However I hate the sin and Love the person. I happen to have a ton of gay, lesbian and even transvestite friends. They know how I feel about it....But I am not their judge.....I let it be known that the Lord my God does not look upon this as anything other then what it is....a sin......But like I said I love them as human beings...I hate the sin.

And also remember redy that every single one of us is a sinner including everyone here....and if they say they are not....they are lying. I think we try very very hard not to....but we always fall short....Hope that helps a lil.

i feel safe in this thread.

Britty, that took a lot of typing. But I'm one of the great unwashed can you please explain what all that means? I've been told you can't just take verses out of context, so can you please explain what each one means.

thanks.

Ok, I'm humbled, I've totally missed the answers. Why don't you just sum it up for me Deb. Ok? Explain to me how your comies have answerd so beautifully becasue I havn't seen an answer yet.

Yea TLW, this is a nice place. I think I'll stay a while. I have lots of questions. But first I'm still waiting for the answers to my 'second' post. Should I repeat it?

As sin goes; no one lesser than the other. lieing...the same as stealing, killing...whatever. Now except for blasphame. Not good.

Kat

Here, just a refresher:

Here is the information I found.

English Bible Mistranslation
Greek/Hebrew texts Mistranslated. Bible translated wrong translation on homosexuality, same-sex love. Textus Receptus. -.Books -

For years, many documents have described the mistranslation of the Bible into English from the original Hebrew and Koine (ancient Greek) New-Testament writings. Issues of incorrect translation concern many areas, such as: the word "virgin" (Isaiah 7:14); the name "Yahweh" (YHWH); descriptions of angels; the term "Sons of God"; and incorrectly translating forbidden sexual practices.

There are several passages often mistranslated as forbidding homosexual activity; however, those Bible passages can be correctly translated by considering many aspects of the Bible, as a whole: literal translation, rarity, priorities, sanity-test and reality-test.


Literal Translation- . In the New Testament, the two verses 1 Corinthians 6:9 & 1 Timothy 1:10 are often mistranslated as condemning homosexuality in English Bibles (but not in the Roman Latin Vulgate Bible or the 1545 German Bible of Martin Luther). Mistranslation is based on two ancient Greek words "malakoi" & "arsenokoitai" (Greek letters " " literally, "male-beds"), which was a new word used by Paul (Saul) at the time and not a common term for homo-sexuality.

Because Paul was speaking in a religious context, the word "arsenokoitai" has been translated as referring to male-pimps or customers in temple prostitution, a common practice in so-called pagan rituals widespread in Temple Cult worship of the time. [The minor term "malakoi" (used to describe "soft" clothing) is non-sexual and has been translated as "effeminate" (KJV), although others state "weaklings" or "morally weak, lazy" men.]

Rarity of Words- . The ancient Greek word "arsenokoitai" occurs in only those 2 verses, 1 Corinthians 6:9 & 1 Timothy 1:10. Logically, if homosexuality were considered a sin, there should be many verses about it, and the word "arsenokoitai" would occur more than twice if it had referred to a major issue, such as homosexuality; the rarity of the word fits the logical translation: the word "arsenokoitai" refers to the rare practice of temple prostitution, not general homosexuality. (See: 73 references to arsenokoit* found in TLG E Feb/2000, "http://www.jeramyt.org/gay/arsenok.htm".) Yet, precisely because the word is so rare and had no formal definition, the word "arsenokoitai" is crucial in fostering misinterpretation of the Bible: a more common word could not be so easily redefined.

Priorities - . The verses in the Bible follow certain priorities: for example, the words "adultery" or "adulteress/adulterer" (Greek "moixoi" ) occur 47 times in the King James Version; however, the word "arsenokoitai" occurs only 2 times, and the common terms of that time period about homosexual activity are not mentioned in the Bible at all (such as man-boy pairing, Greek "erastes-eromenos"). Condemning homosexuality in Biblical times was not an issue, not a priority, at all.

A Sanity- Test - . Since adultery & adulterer are mentioned 47 times in the King James Version, it could be expected that a sin would be mentioned many times in the Bible: the condemnation of lying/liars occurs over 70 times ("liar" 21 times, "false witness" 19, "lying" lips/tongues 31 times); murder is prohibited 35+ times ("murderer" 20 etc.); and stealing is condemned 73+ times ("steal" 23 times, "thief/robber" 50+, except stealing for food: Proverbs 6:30 "Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry." [KJV]). However, the common terms (used in those days) to describe homosexual activity are not even mentioned. It doesn't make sense to translate a few rare words & phrases as condemning homosexuality, when specific sins are mentioned many times in the Bible--it simply doesn't pass a sanity-test.

Reality- Test - . During the time period of 1 Corinthians 6:9 & 1 Timothy^ 1:10,:the word "arsenokoitai" occurred in only a few religious writings, such as a later text describing Adam deceived to have sex with serpent-god Naas. The erotic literature of the period never used the word "arsenokoitai" but used other ancient Greek terms ("erastes-eromenos": man-boy pairing) to describe homosexual practices, and those Greek terms were never mentioned in the Greek texts of the Bible. To try to re-interpret & translate other Bible verses into condemning those specific (unnamed) acts is just not realistic--it doesn't pass a reality-test ("reality_check"). The translation of the ancient Greek New Testament must fit the language & cultures of the time period. The translation must match the reality of that era.

Old-Testament Literal Translation - . The infamous verse Leviticus 20:13, often used to condemn homosexuality, is about a married-man with another male, in the "marriage-bed" as with his wife. See the Latinized Greek for Leviticus 20:13 below:
"Kai hos an koimEthE meta arsenos koitEn
gunaikos, bdelugma epoiEsan amphoteroi;
thanatousthwsan, enoichoi eisin."
[Lev 20:13 in Greek Septuagint LXX].

The translation of the Greek term 'gunaikos' is interpreted to mean: wife. Hence, the verse actually forbids male-male adultery, pertaining only to a married man.
Similarly, for Leviticus 18:22, the wording of the original Hebrew is very different from the KJV form:
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind:
it is abomination." [Leviticus 18:22, King James Version]
However, the original Hebrew for Leviticus 18:22 reveals a different 3rd meaning:

"We-et-zakar lo' tishkav mishkevey 'ishshah" [Lev 18:22 Hebrew, Latinized]
("And-with a-male NOT lie-down in beds-of a-woman") [Lev 18:22 literal translation]

So, the Hebrew Leviticus 18:22 mentions: someone + a male + a woman; hence, a forbidden 3-way.

Those 2 infamous Leviticus verses actually mention other women or wives, rather than male-male relationships, as is often the misinterpretation & mistranslation.

When many aspects of Biblical issues are considered, there is no textual basis for misinterpreting & mistranslating Bible verses to condemn homosexuality: the original Hebrew & Greek texts of the Bible do not condemn homosexuality at all, and so, homosexuality should not be considered a sin by today's society.