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Topic:
Idolatry
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God reached out to His people in many ways...first through directly communicating with the patriarchs, then through the priesthood of the Levites, then through prophets and then through his Son. Hebrews1:1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. as it is said ^^ "He is the representation of God"--that is why they are one, because Jesus represents God's glory and radiance. But that does not mean they are the same, nor does it mean they are equal, nor does that mean we should treat him as equal or the same as God. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jesus spoke in parables regarding this matter...the people did not listen to the priests and the prophets when they spoke of God's will. That is why he sent his son, Jesus as a new covenant and testament on the true worship and love of God...but many did not believe him either. Mark 12:1-12 He then began to speak to them in parables: "A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed. He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, 'They will respect my son.' But the tenants said to one another, 'This is the heir. Come, let'�s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard. What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others. Haven't you read this scripture: 'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?" Then they looked for a way to arrest him because they knew he had spoken the parable against them. But they were afraid of the crowd; so they left him and went away. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ this explains how we are brothers and sisters in Christ, through faith and the will of God that Christ should suffer and die for our sins Hebrews2:9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. 13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This shows that Christ is the "High Priest" of God...therefore, a mediator for our sins, that his faithfulness to God qualifies him for this position. He does as per the will of God to intercede in man's behalf...instead of blood offerings and animal sacrifice, it was his obedience that made him as the perfect sacrifice...both the Lamb of God and the High Priest of God (both the perfect offering and mediator), that we may have forgiveness from God through Christ. Hebrew3:1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. 3For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. 4For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God. 5And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; 6But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. Hebrews5:1For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jesus is not God. Jesus does the will of God. God is immutable. There is none like Him, there is none above him. Jesus is the very word of God made flesh...not God. __________________________________________________________________________________________________ your concept of Jesus being the same as God by mixing the timeline of the old with the new testament is unacceptable. in the old testament, the word of God was still very much with God. In the new testament, the word of God had been made flesh in the person of Jesus. There is a distinction. That distinction is made very clear by this... John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.'" 16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. Jesus is not God. Jesus does the will of God. God is immutable. There is none like Him, there is none above him. Jesus is the very word of God made flesh...not God. Very true Jesus is the Word in the flesh, but that doesn't denote him being our God. John 1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Matthew 4:7 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. your concept of Jesus being the same as God by mixing the timeline of the old with the new testament is unacceptable. in the old testament, the word of God was still very much with God. In the new testament, the word of God had been made flesh in the person of Jesus. There is a distinction. That distinction is made very clear by this... Please don't get confused with the limited terminology we have in language. Jesus is the God of the old testament, "at times". Thus why even in the old testament sometimes it says "God" did this or that. Then sometimes it will say "LORD God" did this or that. Same "God" two different entities. Thus why in Genesis chapter 1 it says God did this or that, then in chapter 2 when it goes into more detail but repeats about the exact same thing, it says "LORD God" did this or that. |
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Topic:
Idolatry
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God reached out to His people in many ways...first through directly communicating with the patriarchs, then through the priesthood of the Levites, then through prophets and then through his Son. Hebrews1:1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. as it is said ^^ "He is the representation of God"--that is why they are one, because Jesus represents God's glory and radiance. But that does not mean they are the same, nor does it mean they are equal, nor does that mean we should treat him as equal or the same as God. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jesus spoke in parables regarding this matter...the people did not listen to the priests and the prophets when they spoke of God's will. That is why he sent his son, Jesus as a new covenant and testament on the true worship and love of God...but many did not believe him either. Mark 12:1-12 He then began to speak to them in parables: "A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed. He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, 'They will respect my son.' But the tenants said to one another, 'This is the heir. Come, let'�s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard. What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others. Haven't you read this scripture: 'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?" Then they looked for a way to arrest him because they knew he had spoken the parable against them. But they were afraid of the crowd; so they left him and went away. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ this explains how we are brothers and sisters in Christ, through faith and the will of God that Christ should suffer and die for our sins Hebrews2:9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. 13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This shows that Christ is the "High Priest" of God...therefore, a mediator for our sins, that his faithfulness to God qualifies him for this position. He does as per the will of God to intercede in man's behalf...instead of blood offerings and animal sacrifice, it was his obedience that made him as the perfect sacrifice...both the Lamb of God and the High Priest of God (both the perfect offering and mediator), that we may have forgiveness from God through Christ. Hebrew3:1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. 3For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. 4For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God. 5And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; 6But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. Hebrews5:1For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jesus is not God. Jesus does the will of God. God is immutable. There is none like Him, there is none above him. Jesus is the very word of God made flesh...not God. __________________________________________________________________________________________________ your concept of Jesus being the same as God by mixing the timeline of the old with the new testament is unacceptable. in the old testament, the word of God was still very much with God. In the new testament, the word of God had been made flesh in the person of Jesus. There is a distinction. That distinction is made very clear by this... John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.'" 16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. Jesus is not God. Jesus does the will of God. God is immutable. There is none like Him, there is none above him. Jesus is the very word of God made flesh...not God. Very true Jesus is the Word in the flesh, but that doesn't denote him being our God. John 1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Matthew 4:7 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. |
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Topic:
Idolatry
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I have been reading PansyTilly's posts in this particular 'thread' & consequently express my 'consummate' appreciation (& corroboration) for her views. Excellent, Articulate, Vivid, & Well-Expressed!   Yes Jesus came to do the father's will. Thus what makes his father his "God". Jesus never references "our father" or "our God". Jesus is OUR God. His God was his God for his time on Earth, his father was his father for his time on Earth. Again, you'll not once find Jesus stating our Father, or our God in context of making Jesus equal to us. Remember, Jesus came in the form of a servant. He wasn't coming as our master, or as our God to it's fullest extent of the meaning. He came in a form full of love and compassion to fulfill one covenant's prophecy and give us a new covenant signed in his blood. Praise to the name great God ole mighty Jesus Christ <3!<3!<3! No cowboy...our views on the matter are not the same. Kaust pointed out that he agreed with my views...then you react on it as if agreeing with him but at the same time saying that jesus is the same as God, which is totally so far removed from everything that i have pointed out. Doing that misleads people to think that we have the same opinion on the matter. We dont. God is God. Jesus is the son of God. Jesus is not the same as God. He came as master AND servant AND messiah because he is the word of God made flesh, come to the world to fulfill God's will. It is God who is compassionate and merciful enough to send His son in order that we (both Jews and Gentiles) be given the opportunity to be saved, through Christ...such that even those who are not born into the people of God can become the adoptive children of God through Christ. In this way, God is also our Father in heaven. This is why Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. Nobody comes to the Father except through Jesus. We are not equal to Jesus, because he is the sole mediator between us and God. His ministry on earth was to set the example on how we may be acceptable for the kingdom of God.... he treated his disciples as brothers, sisters, and friends, through our faith and obedience to God's word and will -- as exemplified by Jesus. Jesus is doing God's will, not his own. God is God. Jesus is Jesus. They are not equals. Jesus is not God. jesus is the same as God, which is totally so far removed from everything that i have pointed out. Why are they not? How are they different? John 10:30 30 I and my Father are one. God is God. Jesus is the son of God. Jesus is not the same as God. Isaiah 41:13 13 For I the Lord thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. Exodus 20: 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Now your turn to point out any other "being" Jesus himself says as being our God and or is indifferent to what Jesus has said in previous cited verses. God is also our Father in heaven. Read chapter 2 of genesis, recap of chapter 1 but goes into more full detail. And explain then why you keep trying to put Jesus as our brother, when he is in actuality our father. He is the one that created us. We are not brother's and sisters with Jesus Christ. His father is not ours. Please cite some verse the explain Jesus to be a "brother or sister" to us and that we share the same father as Jesus Christ. Jesus is doing God's will, not his own. God is God. Jesus is Jesus. They are not equals. Jesus is not God. Not to be a stick in the mud. But please quote the verse(s) that state Jesus is not God. And for the verses that say he came not to do his own will but his father's, please quote the exact terminology used, for we are not brother's and sister's of Jesus Christ. He always says his father this, his father that, HIS father. Jesus' father is not our own. For it is Jesus himself whom created us. He's not the mediator between man and God, he is our God. He is our judge from the beginning to the end. We are judge by the Word of God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us in whom we call Jesus. Read Genesis 2, goes into fuller detail then chapter 1. Chapter 2 says LORD God did this or that, Jesus Christ is LORD God, for he is the Lord. And all things were created by Christ John 1:3 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. And later confirms this by the following - Jeremiah 1:5 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Notice who he says created this person in question..... Jesus Christ is the creator of the world, the stars, even Heaven itself. Jesus Christ is God almighty!!! |
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Topic:
Idolatry
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Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary 23:32-43 As soon as Christ was fastened to the cross, he prayed for those who crucified him. The great thing he died to purchase and procure for us, is the forgiveness of sin. This he prays for. Jesus was crucified between two thieves; in them were shown the different effects the cross of Christ would have upon the children of men in the preaching the gospel. One malefactor was hardened to the last. No troubles of themselves will change a wicked heart. The other was softened at the last: he was snatched as a brand out of the burning, and made a monument of Divine mercy. This gives no encouragement to any to put off repentance to their death-beds, or to hope that they shall then find mercy. It is certain that true repentance is never too late; but it is as certain that late repentance is seldom true. None can be sure they shall have time to repent at death, but every man may be sure he cannot have the advantages this penitent thief had. We shall see the case to be singular, if we observe the uncommon effects of God's grace upon this man. He reproved the other for railing on Christ. He owned that he deserved what was done to him. He believed Jesus to have suffered wrongfully. Observe his faith in this prayer. Christ was in the depth of disgrace, suffering as a deceiver, and not delivered by his Father. He made this profession before the wonders were displayed which put honor on Christ's sufferings, and startled the centurion. He believed in a life to come, and desired to be happy in that life; not like the other thief, to be only saved from the cross. Observe his humility in this prayer. All his request is, Lord, remember me; quite referring it to Jesus in what way to remember him. Thus he was humbled in true repentance, and he brought forth all the fruits for repentance his circumstances would admit. Christ upon the cross, is gracious like Christ upon the throne. Though he was in the greatest struggle and agony, yet he had pity for a poor penitent. By this act of grace we are to understand that Jesus Christ died to open the kingdom of heaven to all penitent, obedient believers. It is a single instance in Scripture; it should teach us to despair of none, and that none should despair of themselves; but lest it should be abused, it is contrasted with the awful state of the other thief, who died hardened in unbelief, though a crucified Savior was so near him. Be sure that in general men die as they live. Pulpit Commentary Verse 34. - Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. These words are missing in some of the oldest authorities. They are found, however, in the majority of the most ancient manuscripts and in the most trustworthy of the old versions, and are undoubtedly genuine. These first of the seven words from the cross seem, from their position in the record, to have been spoken very early in the awful scene, probably while the nails were being driven into the hands and feet. Different from other holy dying men, he had no need to say, "Forgive me." Then, as always, thinking of others, he utters this prayer, uttering it, too, as Stier well observes, with the same consciousness which had been formerly expressed, "Father, I know that thou hearest me always." "His intercession has this for its ground, though in meekness it is not expressed: 'Father, I will that thou forgive them." In the same sublime consciousness who he was, he speaks shortly after to the penitent thief hanging by his side. These words of the crucified Jesus were heard by the poor sufferer close to him; they - with other things he had noticed in the One crucified in the midst - moved him to that piteous prayer which was answered at once so quickly and so royally. St. Bernard comments thus on this first word from the cross: "Judaei clamant, 'Crucifige! 'Christus clamat,' Ignosce!' Magna illorum iniquitas. seal major tun, O Domine, pietas!" And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. The rough soldiers were treating the Master as already dead, and were disposing of his raiment, of which they had stripped him before fastening him to the cross. He was hanging there naked, exposed to sun and wind. Part of this raiment was torn asunder, part they drew lots for to see who was to wear it. The garments of the crucified became the property of the soldiers who carried out the sentence. Every cross was guarded by a guard of four soldiers. The coat, for which they cast lots, was, St. John tells us, without seam. "Chrysostom," who may have written from personal knowledge, thinks that the detail is added to show "the poorness of the Lord's garments, and that in dress, as in all other things, he followed a simple fashion." Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them,.... When he was crucified between the two thieves, and as he hung upon the cross, and while insulted and abused by all sorts of men, and put to the greatest pain and torture, he addressed himself to God his Father: the Arabic version reads, "my Father", who was so to him, not as he was man; for as such he had no father; but as he was God, being as a divine person, his beloved, and only begotten Son: and this he uses, whilst, as man, he is praying to him; partly to express his faith of relation to him; his confidence of being heard; and partly to set believers an example of praying, as he has directed, saying, "our Father", &c. and the petition put up by him is for forgiveness; which is with God, and with him only; and that for his enemies, his crucifiers: not for those who sinned the sin unto death, the sin against the Holy Ghost, who knowing him to be the Messiah, maliciously crucified him, for whom prayer is not to be made; but for those who were ignorantly concerned in it, as the next clause shows, even for his own elect, whom the Father had given him out of the world, which were among his crucifiers; for those, and not the world, he prays: and the fruit of this his prayer quickly appeared, in the conversion of three thousand of them under Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost, next following, in six weeks time. Though such might be his affection, as man, in general, as to wish for, and desire, as such, was it consistent with the divine will, forgiveness for all of them; adding, for they know not what they do, or "are doing", meaning, in crucifying him, which was the case of many of them, and of their rulers; they did not know that Jesus was the Messiah, nor the prophecies concerning him, nor the evil they were committing in putting him to death: not that their ignorance excused their sin; nor was it without sin; nor does Christ use it as a plea for pardon, or found his intercession upon it, which is always done upon his own propitiatory sacrifice; but this is mentioned as descriptive of the persons Christ prays for, and points out a branch of his priestly office he exercises, in having compassion on the ignorant, and them that are out of the way; and they parted his raiment, and cast lots: that is, upon his vesture, or seamless coat, and so fulfilled the prophecy in Psalm 22:18. See Gill on Matthew 27:35. See Gill on John 19:23. See Gill on John 19:24. PS: I have been reading PansyTilly's posts in this particular 'thread' & consequently express my 'consummate' appreciation (& corroboration) for her views. Excellent, Articulate, Vivid, & Well-Expressed! Yes Jesus came to do the father's will. Thus what makes his father his "God". Jesus never references "our father" or "our God". Jesus is OUR God. His God was his God for his time on Earth, his father was his father for his time on Earth. Again, you'll not once find Jesus stating our Father, or our God in context of making Jesus equal to us. Remember, Jesus came in the form of a servant. He wasn't coming as our master, or as our God to it's fullest extent of the meaning. He came in a form full of love and compassion to fulfill one covenant's prophecy and give us a new covenant signed in his blood. Praise to the name great God ole mighty Jesus Christ <3!<3!<3! |
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Topic:
Homosexual in Christianity?
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Christ's Word is very straight forward...He does not change, nor His Word. Homosexuality is not of God and He hates it. There are multiple Scriptures in both the Old and New Testaments that clearly acknowledge this. Christ created man for woman and woman for man. The liberals are just trying to force people to renounce both Christ and His Word for the sake of their own perversion. Amen, sex is for procreation. And is why God's first instruction to us was to be fruitful and FILL THE EARTH. And has stated that only married couples are allowed to have sexual relationships, thus totally negating any homosexual relationship because God only blessed marriage between a man and woman. |
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Topic:
THE FEAR OF GOD
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Psalm 111:10
10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever |
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Amen! Funny thing, In my 45 years of living on this earth and 25 of those 45 I've been in the Lord, I have never met or even ever heard of Any human being who has never masturbated or at one point stopped never to do it again. We crucify our fleshly desires daily, but it's a process! As we grow in the Lord we may stumble like a child trying to walk, but we repent and start walking again. We gain strength as we grow! If we just can't seem to maintain any consistent control and are always falling, we need to be married, period! We operate according to the measure of the gift of God in our lives. We all have a different measure of grace and we all are dealt a measure of faith too. God knows what we r able to do and not to do. DON'T EVER FORGET to trust not only in his grace(power to overcome) but ALSO in his MERCY. JESUS had THE SPIRIT without measure. We have it by measure. SO, I don't care how disiplined we may become, we will have to struggle and fight this flesh till we pass. We better trust in HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, not ours. Amen? At the same time, the Bible says: (Romans 6:1-2): 1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Romans 6:14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Acts 3:19 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. |
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Even though the bible says,'' whosoever findeth a wife findeth a good thing.'' I see that some woman even I am looking for a man because I have been hurt by the men God put in my life and all of them has broken my heart. They all said they were Christian but later in our relationship they want to have sex but when I tell them I don't believe in sex before marriage they would get upset and find another girl to have sex with or hurt me bad by physically abusing me. So now I'm starting to look for a man. Do you think I should continue waiting or is it good for a woman to look for a good man? Matthew 7:7 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you I'm in the same boat as you. Just have patience that God is saving the best for last :) What might help you is not specifically "look" for a man. But live your life and when God feels it right, then you two will stumble across each other. If you focus on it, dwelling on the fact that it hasn't happened yet, it will only bring heart ache. Trust in the Lord knowing it will happen. Not just specifically believing it will happen or hoping it will happen, but actually knowing it will happen :) |
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Topic:
Am I Saved
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No one is 100% we live by repentance, repent and you shall be forgiven for our Lord is Merciful. amen, if we were 100% so to speak, there would never been a reason for Jesus to do what he did. Nor change of covenant's or anything. Life today would be as God originally created it in the Garden of Eden. But through his grace, mercy, and love for us, he did what he did to try to more ensure our spot in the paradise with him. |
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Topic:
Idolatry
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************* Putting Aside The Quote At John 1: 1 *************** Yes again, neither Father or Son is referred to in the Old Testament. But remember, Jesus was in the habit of talking with illustrations and often he wouldn't talk without using one. It was very pronounced hall-mark... Do You agree ? (Matthew 13: 10 + 34) Why put away John? There was no "father" or "son" in the old testament. The ONLY time that starts is when the Word takes on a form in the flesh. As again I said, he came in the form of a servant through natural birth. For natural birth to happen, there has to be a mom and dad. So therefor WHILE Jesus was in the flesh in the form of a servant rather then in the form of his glorious utmost power spiritual form. Again Jesus "The Word" was in the beginning with God. There was no before Jesus "The Word". For he is the one that created everything, Heaven, Earth, and everything else in between. And why the reference of Matthew? That has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. Why does he not say " Yes I AM Good? Mark 10:17-19 17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" 18 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 19 You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not bear false witness,' 'Do not defraud,' 'Honor your father and your mother.'" NKJV Because Jesus came as the form of a servant. He wasn't here to "puff" himself up, wasn't here to make a name for himself, wasn't proclaiming to be the greatest. He gave all the glory to God the father, as again he came as a servant, not as a master. All he ever did, he would give the glory to God the father. so if he is god he was still giving the glory to himself. Yes No, not specifically. The English version and or "translated" versions of the scriptures do not include Jesus' father's name. Thus the use of "God" and "LORD God" in the old testament. Well the "LORD God" came to Earth in the form of a servant through natural birth, in which then he was referred to as "Jesus". But again as he did come in the form of a "servant", he was humble and gave all the glory to everything and anything he did to his "father". |
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Topic:
Idolatry
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************* Putting Aside The Quote At John 1: 1 *************** Yes again, neither Father or Son is referred to in the Old Testament. But remember, Jesus was in the habit of talking with illustrations and often he wouldn't talk without using one. It was very pronounced hall-mark... Do You agree ? (Matthew 13: 10 + 34) Why put away John? There was no "father" or "son" in the old testament. The ONLY time that starts is when the Word takes on a form in the flesh. As again I said, he came in the form of a servant through natural birth. For natural birth to happen, there has to be a mom and dad. So therefor WHILE Jesus was in the flesh in the form of a servant rather then in the form of his glorious utmost power spiritual form. Again Jesus "The Word" was in the beginning with God. There was no before Jesus "The Word". For he is the one that created everything, Heaven, Earth, and everything else in between. And why the reference of Matthew? That has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. Why does he not say " Yes I AM Good? Mark 10:17-19 17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" 18 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 19 You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not bear false witness,' 'Do not defraud,' 'Honor your father and your mother.'" NKJV Because Jesus came as the form of a servant. He wasn't here to "puff" himself up, wasn't here to make a name for himself, wasn't proclaiming to be the greatest. He gave all the glory to God the father, as again he came as a servant, not as a master. All he ever did, he would give the glory to God the father. |
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Topic:
Questions of a Teenage Girl
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You have a lot to learn. Focus on finding a good man and stop worrying. Nature will take it's course. God's instruction is to focus on HIS kingdom and HIS righteousness and not on finding a good man. God says when we focus on HIS Kingdom and HIS righteousness, He will add to us, all that we need! See Matthew 6:33(reproduced below): "But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you." Amen, put your focus on God in your thoughts and actions. And God will take care of the rest :) |
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Topic:
Idolatry
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John 1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. You are determined to promote this abrogated verse ?  For one, just quoting the verse and not the rest of the post kind of is moot and can then be made to take the verse in question out of context. On top of that, how is this verse abrogated? abrogated = to abolish by authoritative action : annul Nothing in that verse is abolished, that kind of is the knowledge God gave to us as he was "abrogating" the old covenant. |
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Topic:
Questions of a Teenage Girl
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It isn't an act of impurity for a married woman to have sexual intercourse with her husband. Also, a virgin can be impure in ways not having anything to do with sex. Amen, sex between two that are married is never "impure". Heck that was one of the first instructions given to us by God. Genesis 1:28 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Hebrews 13:4 4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. Notice "and the bed undefiled" in reference to marriage. That is on the assumption it is done as God intended it eg., just the two married people, willing, ect. The sins of sex are revolved around two that are not married, including but not limited to, younger people, homosexuals, ect. Younger people are in reference to teens of such for instance, younger as in again not married, ect. |
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I will be back later...I don't like the bible I think peoples interpretations are dangerous and confusing. believing in a god is not what's wrong, its the books that people have written and still writing. if someone came to me and said im a Christian but I don't follow the book I just follow my heart then I could see myself on that sort of path but until then it looks like I follow my heart alone. :) How can one follow our Christ and obey what he has told us, if they don't read up on it? That's what it means to be a "Christian" faithfully obeying and loving our Christ, Jesus. This is very interesting for you to say.. I agree totally Yahshua is our example. so we obey what he told us. Yet see that the OT is not Christian. those are old. Yet did not Yahshua lead by example? What made Yahshua perfect? Was it not that OT the Law which is the only thing in existence at the time? I see so many pick and choose what they want from the OT. its what seperates what all the different churches believe. Their is nothing in the NT that is not from the old. Yahshua one thing is not recorded he did and that was animal sacrificing. He did not need to he was perfect yet it is explained in Hebrews very deeply why we don't now. Yahshua was perfect because he kept the law. Period. That's why his sacrifice was enough yet in the Psalms Yahweh even says he did not desire sacrifice. What I am saying is I agree and how I look at the Bible is if Yahshua did it then I should do it. That's what following an example is. So why do you say the OT is not relevant? Why do you pick and choose as most people do what u want to believe and do and what you do not from the OT? All churches will say the Tithe is a law / needed yet you will not find the Tithe in the NT I don't pick and choose what I follow or what is relevant from the OT. There is absolutely nothing directly from the OT that we are still under.. The old testament is only information on "history". It puts things into context for understanding. Matthew 5:17 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Then he says - John 19:30 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. Yahshua one thing is not recorded he did and that was animal sacrificing. "Yahshua" or "Jesus" didn't sacrifice an animal because for the simple fact, who would he sacrifice the animal to? When someone sacrificed an animal, they sacrificed it to Jesus "Lord God" whom created us and everything else, whom was and is today our God. Was he suppose to sacrifice something to himself? And why would he have the need to sacrifice anything in the first place? He never sinned, so he had no forgiveness to find/seek. you pick and choose. the OT is not just history then the 10 commandments are just history also. read the rest of math. it goes deeper not no its no good and just history. or about till heaven and earth passes away. Yahshua did not speak to himself and he also said none was good but his father in heaven. but that's ok. Rev 11, zech 4, 5 9 isa, ect. all speak of the real meaning of scripture is before Yahshua comes back. remember he only gave 1 sign of his return. the true evangel will be preached and those 2 will be hated by the world. so will we recongonize it or will tradition be in place more than the word of Yahweh like it was the 1st time. but u r in the majority of thinking I believe No, I don't pick and choose thank you very much lol. The OT is just history, and everyone of the 10 commandments were repeated in the NT. Mainly the only thing that is different from the OT to the NT is forgiveness and or how it is received. The OT was built around "works", the NT is built around "faith". Rev is not before Jesus returns my friend, rev 11 is speaking of during the tribulation, after he returns. Nobody knows when Jesus is going to come back, not even an inclination of a possibility. 2 Peter 3:10 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Thu 07/23/15 02:23 PM
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I will be back later...I don't like the bible I think peoples interpretations are dangerous and confusing. believing in a god is not what's wrong, its the books that people have written and still writing. if someone came to me and said im a Christian but I don't follow the book I just follow my heart then I could see myself on that sort of path but until then it looks like I follow my heart alone. :) How can one follow our Christ and obey what he has told us, if they don't read up on it? That's what it means to be a "Christian" faithfully obeying and loving our Christ, Jesus. This is very interesting for you to say.. I agree totally Yahshua is our example. so we obey what he told us. Yet see that the OT is not Christian. those are old. Yet did not Yahshua lead by example? What made Yahshua perfect? Was it not that OT the Law which is the only thing in existence at the time? I see so many pick and choose what they want from the OT. its what seperates what all the different churches believe. Their is nothing in the NT that is not from the old. Yahshua one thing is not recorded he did and that was animal sacrificing. He did not need to he was perfect yet it is explained in Hebrews very deeply why we don't now. Yahshua was perfect because he kept the law. Period. That's why his sacrifice was enough yet in the Psalms Yahweh even says he did not desire sacrifice. What I am saying is I agree and how I look at the Bible is if Yahshua did it then I should do it. That's what following an example is. So why do you say the OT is not relevant? Why do you pick and choose as most people do what u want to believe and do and what you do not from the OT? All churches will say the Tithe is a law / needed yet you will not find the Tithe in the NT I don't pick and choose what I follow or what is relevant from the OT. There is absolutely nothing directly from the OT that we are still under.. The old testament is only information on "history". It puts things into context for understanding. Matthew 5:17 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Then he says - John 19:30 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. Yahshua one thing is not recorded he did and that was animal sacrificing. "Yahshua" or "Jesus" didn't sacrifice an animal because for the simple fact, who would he sacrifice the animal to? When someone sacrificed an animal, they sacrificed it to Jesus "Lord God" whom created us and everything else, whom was and is today our God. Was he suppose to sacrifice something to himself? And why would he have the need to sacrifice anything in the first place? He never sinned, so he had no forgiveness to find/seek. |
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Punishment for sin is DEATH no mater if you are a christian practicing sexual immorality in Christianity or a muslim in Islam. I will really appreciate it, if you STOP bringing the Muslim religion & the Nation of Islam ( not in Islam... it is not a place), into EVERY Christian discussion! Put that on Muslim forum or General.. it is offensive. That's not specifically secluded to the Muslim faith. Romans 6:23 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Just because Jesus sacrificed himself for the sins of the world, doesn't give people a green card to just go and sin like "ah, no problem I'm forgiven". No, forgiveness comes when one repents. Acts 2:38 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. |
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That was Jesus talking to Jews living under the law. As soon as you accept the fact that Christ died for you and cleansed you of all your sins the better off you will be. What sins do "all" not include. If I were God I would have put a lot of buts in the message of Jesus. I have heard a lot of Buts from the pulpit and from law abiding (so they say) christians. We try to put God in the box built by Satan where we try to live. If God is not in the box, why do we try finding Him in there. Read the NT, not the Gospels since they are still under the law. Start in Romans and try and find what sins we haven't been forgiven for. While you're there look for what is said about tithing. :hint--nothing. This is not a license to sin. If we accept the fact that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins and then start trying to emulate Him we will find what joy is. Not happiness but joy. I will face trials and hardship in this life but (there that word is again) when I breath my last and stand before the Judge an He asks me, "Why should I let you in My presence?" I will remain mute and my brother, Jesus, will answer, "Pop this is one of mine." Sentence has already been carried out and I am free. It's not specifically accepting Jesus died for your sins, Jesus wasn't a "sacrifice" as when he was crucified, he was putting a new covenant into effect where sacrifice doesn't cleanse you of sins, God never was happy with the sacrifices in the first place. Isaiah 1:11 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. We are forgiven when the following happens - Acts 3:19 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. |
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I will be back later...I don't like the bible I think peoples interpretations are dangerous and confusing. believing in a god is not what's wrong, its the books that people have written and still writing. if someone came to me and said im a Christian but I don't follow the book I just follow my heart then I could see myself on that sort of path but until then it looks like I follow my heart alone. :) How can one follow our Christ and obey what he has told us, if they don't read up on it? That's what it means to be a "Christian" faithfully obeying and loving our Christ, Jesus. |
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he was a vicar, he came up to me today at the school gates and said I have lovely children, (they are friends with his children) we talked for a bit then he started with the do I go to church, I told him no because I don't believe in god he didn't seem fazed he just smiled and said why. I then said do you really want to know and he said of course. I laughed a little and told him but one of the things I said was how can I follow a god (if he exists) that would allow people to preach hate about people who are gay. again he didn't seem fazed he just looked at me and said god is infallible he would not and will never create a person in his own image and get it wrong. everyone has a reason for being here from the baby that lived for 20 mins to the gay man who lives with his husband to the old woman who has lived a hundred years or more. he made no mistakes with these people. he also said he made no mistake with me. at this I had a couple of tears and then he went on to say he does not and will never preach hate, because that is not what god is about. I asked him (I don't know why) should I go to church?, and this is what he said, no two people should be unequally yoked, and what I mean by that is god does not want someone without hate in their heart to be with someone who has hate in their heart its that simple. he was a very interesting man and he is now a friend of mine. God doesn't hate homosexuals, he died so they could live ever more and everyone else as well. He detests that specific action, but for the person themselves God's already paid their debt if they accept his gift and turn away from their sinful ways. There is nothing sinful about wanting to be with someone, even the same gender. Not saying in a manner of "lusting" after them, but for the mere thought itself is not sinful per say. It's the physical action(s) done between the two that are sinful. And it's not even specifically the physical action between two of the same gender, it merely boils down to God only permits sex between two that are married. And God never sanctified marriage between two of the same gender. Regardless if some states in the USA and maybe across the world are recognizing same sex marriages either, God doesn't change. Nor did he instruct for such a change, so there is no proof that those marriages are even worth the paper they are written on. I'm guessing you're asking "if the church was selling stuff in the church for a new roof, would I go and buy something"? Absolutely not, the church is for worship. Not for money gain, even if that money is going to be used for the church itself. God has even told us about this Luke 19 45 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought; 46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves You know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing(s) over and over and expecting a different result. Just because the "Christian" church down the road is doing it, doesn't make it right or any less of a sinful action. For God has warned us again such things. And "Christians" don't persecute nobody, gay or otherwise. For our Christ has told us "Judge not, less ye be judged. For what judgment we pass on them, will be measured back on us". Not worded exactly like that, but if needed will look the verse up for you. Not saying people don't do as mentioned. But a "Christian" would not. As again our "Christ" has told us to judge not. Please don't confuse people's actions with God's instructions, not always the same thing even if they claim it to be so. I can guarantee the scriptures don't say such a thing. And if it says a similar instance, it's being taken out of context. As Jews are God's chosen people. Eternal life was first given to the jews, the entire old testament/covenant is for the jews. Again, the only thing that has to do with Christians specifically is found in the new testament/covenant as that is where our "Christ" came into the picture. And our God is so entirely loving, forgiving, and generous to still offer the paradise/eternal life to the jews first even after what they did to him. Romans 2:10 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Doesn't mean Jews are necessarily right in the faith they have or lack thereof, but salvation and or God's love isn't "earned". It's a gift given to us all through the sacrifice God did for us all. |
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