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I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on this. I don't believe that God is anything external to or greater than humanity, but the very existence of consciousness itself. I think ancient passages from all over the world indirectly spoke of it, using imagery and allegory. The one thing people fail to do with the bible to get an actual portrayal of what happened, is to read it from the context of someone reading it in the time it was written. If we apply our knowledge of our current understanding of reality, physics and hard science and use that knowledge to read ancient texts, would it not be easier to understand what it really is they were trying to describe? the very existence of consciousness itself Where did this "very existence of consciousness" itself come from? Why aren't there multiple planet "earths" with people else where. At least just on one other as there are millions of planets out there. |
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Seek first the kingdome of God Amen, there shouldn't be a second thought beside seeking the kingdom of God. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you :). |
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Topic:
The Irish?
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"death" that we know it first hand here on this world should be celebrated in hopes the person went to Heaven. Why mourn at a funeral? Are they feeling anymore pain of anything? No, they are at peace, they have finished the journey. You'll catch up with them one day in the paradise one day hopefully :)
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Topic:
With God
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Believing in God as the author and finisher of our faith amen :) |
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The one thing that I can't press on enough is that these babies don't deserve to die. It's not fair that they should be denied a life. I know it's hard on these young mom's that had to go through this. They will need lots of councilling and support but killing there babies that is no answer. If they did do that, to Me they would be no better that those terrorists. Those terrorists don't care about life that is why they can take it so easily, a child's life is a special thing it's new and untainted by whatever happened to bring that life about, tthat life is innocent and to kill it would be truly a terrible act just like what those terrorists are doing. i would still disagree with this, they were formed in an act of a crime being committed, so no real reason for them to deserve to live in the first place... remember your thoughts here if your ever abducted, raped and impregnated without your consent or want... it's a discussion, nothing more... if you say you would keep it, then more power to ya, thats what i have been saying all along that it's only the womans decision, not anyone elses... i offered my opinion, nothing more, and you certainly don't have to agree with it... i can't say because i'm not a woman... but i also do not see it as killing anyone, so abortion would be a great option... 
Amen, still on the level of agree to disagree, but murder is murder, or taking the life of another is the taking the life of another. Even if that life hasn't been born into this physical world. It's still a living being inside that woman.  and you know i disagree with that...
The baby inside her is not "her's" as in it's not her "possession". It is still a living soul. have you been drinking? Why you say that moe? A baby is not a "possession". It may not be able to take care of it's own self, but it nevertheless is a living "human" that just needs your protection and care till it's mentally capable of taking care of itself. But still fact remains, that baby isn't a "possession". you keep thinking that when CS come's to collect your kids...but they were never yours to begin with, so that would be ok, right?... 
cs? Child Services... in Texas, they are called CPS, child protection services, them and the courts decide who's kid is who's...or was... Maybe I'm missing something here... but what does the CS have to do with a child being a possession or not? How does that make the child an "object"? Yes the child would be your "child", but that's speaking genealogy not in the context of a possession. I don't quite catch what the issues are in the mails about 'Child Protection Services' and 'possession' and 'object'. But as someone who works in the scope of Child Protection (as a component of Social Development work), may I take the liberty to think that the use of 'possession' here means custody? Child custody is the professional term. It means legitimacy to keep and take care of the child for the welfare of that child. Biological parents have inherent powers to also take custody of their children unless they are found not to be capable of doing so...in which case the welfare systems put in place in a given country could follow a process approved by law, to find alternative care/custody for such children. This is where the Child Protection Services get involved in most countries (I am not being Texas specific because I don't live in Texas and do not know their specific laws about child custody). It could involve getting the child into the custody of an orphanage or a shelter or foster care pending when adoption process could conclude...if adoption is appropriate in the given circumstance. Again when, adoption process concludes, the adopted parents also receive legitimate custody of the adopted child and step into the child's life in the same way that the child's biological parents would have been. For the case study in issue, the biological parent would need to elect the option of giving out the baby for adoption. Sometimes, the baby does not need to pass any time in an orphanage or shelter before actual adoption happens - if processes for adoption were already ongoing through the period of pregnancy. Every country has its own stipulated process backed up by law. And as for the use of the word, 'object', please it is critical that we do NOT refer to an un-born child as an object. The baby in the womb has life and that makes that baby in the womb a 'he' or 'her'; CERTAINLY NOT AN OBJECT! I hope this does not offend! And as for the use of the word, 'object', please it is critical that we do NOT refer to an un-born child as an object. The baby in the womb has life and that makes that baby in the womb a 'he' or 'her'; CERTAINLY NOT AN OBJECT! Thank you, exactly what I was saying. I just chose to use the word "possession" rather then object. |
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The one thing that I can't press on enough is that these babies don't deserve to die. It's not fair that they should be denied a life. I know it's hard on these young mom's that had to go through this. They will need lots of councilling and support but killing there babies that is no answer. If they did do that, to Me they would be no better that those terrorists. Those terrorists don't care about life that is why they can take it so easily, a child's life is a special thing it's new and untainted by whatever happened to bring that life about, tthat life is innocent and to kill it would be truly a terrible act just like what those terrorists are doing. i would still disagree with this, they were formed in an act of a crime being committed, so no real reason for them to deserve to live in the first place... remember your thoughts here if your ever abducted, raped and impregnated without your consent or want... it's a discussion, nothing more... if you say you would keep it, then more power to ya, thats what i have been saying all along that it's only the womans decision, not anyone elses... i offered my opinion, nothing more, and you certainly don't have to agree with it... i can't say because i'm not a woman... but i also do not see it as killing anyone, so abortion would be a great option...
Amen, still on the level of agree to disagree, but murder is murder, or taking the life of another is the taking the life of another. Even if that life hasn't been born into this physical world. It's still a living being inside that woman. and you know i disagree with that...
The baby inside her is not "her's" as in it's not her "possession". It is still a living soul. have you been drinking? Why you say that moe? A baby is not a "possession". It may not be able to take care of it's own self, but it nevertheless is a living "human" that just needs your protection and care till it's mentally capable of taking care of itself. But still fact remains, that baby isn't a "possession". you keep thinking that when CS come's to collect your kids...but they were never yours to begin with, so that would be ok, right?...
cs? Child Services... in Texas, they are called CPS, child protection services, them and the courts decide who's kid is who's...or was... Maybe I'm missing something here... but what does the CS have to do with a child being a possession or not? How does that make the child an "object"? Yes the child would be your "child", but that's speaking genealogy not in the context of a possession. |
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The one thing that I can't press on enough is that these babies don't deserve to die. It's not fair that they should be denied a life. I know it's hard on these young mom's that had to go through this. They will need lots of councilling and support but killing there babies that is no answer. If they did do that, to Me they would be no better that those terrorists. Those terrorists don't care about life that is why they can take it so easily, a child's life is a special thing it's new and untainted by whatever happened to bring that life about, tthat life is innocent and to kill it would be truly a terrible act just like what those terrorists are doing. i would still disagree with this, they were formed in an act of a crime being committed, so no real reason for them to deserve to live in the first place... remember your thoughts here if your ever abducted, raped and impregnated without your consent or want... it's a discussion, nothing more... if you say you would keep it, then more power to ya, thats what i have been saying all along that it's only the womans decision, not anyone elses... i offered my opinion, nothing more, and you certainly don't have to agree with it... i can't say because i'm not a woman... but i also do not see it as killing anyone, so abortion would be a great option...
Amen, still on the level of agree to disagree, but murder is murder, or taking the life of another is the taking the life of another. Even if that life hasn't been born into this physical world. It's still a living being inside that woman. and you know i disagree with that...
The baby inside her is not "her's" as in it's not her "possession". It is still a living soul. have you been drinking? Why you say that moe? A baby is not a "possession". It may not be able to take care of it's own self, but it nevertheless is a living "human" that just needs your protection and care till it's mentally capable of taking care of itself. But still fact remains, that baby isn't a "possession". you keep thinking that when CS come's to collect your kids...but they were never yours to begin with, so that would be ok, right?...
cs? |
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The one thing that I can't press on enough is that these babies don't deserve to die. It's not fair that they should be denied a life. I know it's hard on these young mom's that had to go through this. They will need lots of councilling and support but killing there babies that is no answer. If they did do that, to Me they would be no better that those terrorists. Those terrorists don't care about life that is why they can take it so easily, a child's life is a special thing it's new and untainted by whatever happened to bring that life about, tthat life is innocent and to kill it would be truly a terrible act just like what those terrorists are doing. i would still disagree with this, they were formed in an act of a crime being committed, so no real reason for them to deserve to live in the first place... remember your thoughts here if your ever abducted, raped and impregnated without your consent or want... it's a discussion, nothing more... if you say you would keep it, then more power to ya, thats what i have been saying all along that it's only the womans decision, not anyone elses... i offered my opinion, nothing more, and you certainly don't have to agree with it... i can't say because i'm not a woman... but i also do not see it as killing anyone, so abortion would be a great option...
Amen, still on the level of agree to disagree, but murder is murder, or taking the life of another is the taking the life of another. Even if that life hasn't been born into this physical world. It's still a living being inside that woman. and you know i disagree with that...
The baby inside her is not "her's" as in it's not her "possession". It is still a living soul. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Mon 05/11/15 01:40 PM
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The one thing that I can't press on enough is that these babies don't deserve to die. It's not fair that they should be denied a life. I know it's hard on these young mom's that had to go through this. They will need lots of councilling and support but killing there babies that is no answer. If they did do that, to Me they would be no better that those terrorists. Those terrorists don't care about life that is why they can take it so easily, a child's life is a special thing it's new and untainted by whatever happened to bring that life about, tthat life is innocent and to kill it would be truly a terrible act just like what those terrorists are doing. i would still disagree with this, they were formed in an act of a crime being committed, so no real reason for them to deserve to live in the first place... remember your thoughts here if your ever abducted, raped and impregnated without your consent or want... it's a discussion, nothing more... if you say you would keep it, then more power to ya, thats what i have been saying all along that it's only the womans decision, not anyone elses... i offered my opinion, nothing more, and you certainly don't have to agree with it... i can't say because i'm not a woman... but i also do not see it as killing anyone, so abortion would be a great option...
Amen, still on the level of agree to disagree, but murder is murder, or taking the life of another is the taking the life of another. Even if that life hasn't been born into this physical world. It's still a living being inside that woman. and you know i disagree with that...
The baby inside her is not "her's" as in it's not her "possession". It is still a living soul/being all in it's own. |
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The one thing that I can't press on enough is that these babies don't deserve to die. It's not fair that they should be denied a life. I know it's hard on these young mom's that had to go through this. They will need lots of councilling and support but killing there babies that is no answer. If they did do that, to Me they would be no better that those terrorists. Those terrorists don't care about life that is why they can take it so easily, a child's life is a special thing it's new and untainted by whatever happened to bring that life about, tthat life is innocent and to kill it would be truly a terrible act just like what those terrorists are doing. i would still disagree with this, they were formed in an act of a crime being committed, so no real reason for them to deserve to live in the first place... remember your thoughts here if your ever abducted, raped and impregnated without your consent or want... it's a discussion, nothing more... if you say you would keep it, then more power to ya, thats what i have been saying all along that it's only the womans decision, not anyone elses... i offered my opinion, nothing more, and you certainly don't have to agree with it... i can't say because i'm not a woman... but i also do not see it as killing anyone, so abortion would be a great option...
Amen, still on the level of agree to disagree, but murder is murder, or taking the life of another is the taking the life of another. Even if that life hasn't been born into this physical world. It's still a living being inside that woman. |
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CowboyGH - Insisting that your religious beliefs take precedence over the choices these young girls may make shows a complete lack of empathy for the horrors these girls have endured. They and only they should be the ones to make such decisions and frankly it is none of your business. I understand where you're coming from, you just don't seem to see where I'm coming from. - Is that fetus not a living being? - Does that fetus not have life? If either of those are a yes, then who's right is it for anyone to take it away? Even if the parent didn't intend to be impregnated for any number of reasons. That child's life is not a possession, it does not belong to the mother. yes it does, until it's an adult... your trying to force women to have babies they might not be able to afford, deal with, or even want... so much for god letting people make their OWN decisions... No it doesn't. A baby's life is just that, the baby's life. The baby is not a possession, a thing, or an object. Not trying to force anyone to do anything, if they did not wish to get impregnated they should not have been having sex. If it was from rape, can always put the child up for adoption. As life begins at conception. So again, how can anyone have control over if someone keeps their life or looses it especially when they've done absolutely nothing to influence the possibility of either choices? well, the law says your wrong... does god teach this baby or does the mother? if something happens to the baby, is god going to jail? is god paying for everything for the baby? Wasn't speaking of man's law. That living being inside a mother is just that, a living being. Weather it can feel or not, even if it won't ever know what's happening to it. Doesn't matter, bottom line is it's taking the life of another. That's why they allow abortion up to a certain amount of weeks, till then the fetus/baby wouldn't feel it. But that's not the point again weather if it can feel it or not, it's taking the life of a living soul. well, look at it this way then.... god abandoned the 200 GIRLS when he "let" them get kidnapped... god abandoned the GIRLS again when he "let" the POS's have their way with the them... now you say they should listen to god and not abort the fetus's because god doesn't want anyone "murdered"... me being atheist/agnostic says god lost his wants when he let this happen to them in the first place... if any of these girls want to keep the babies, more power to them, i wish them the best... and the same goes if any of the girls want to abort the babies... if i was a doctor, i would do it for them for free... well, look at it this way then.... god abandoned the 200 GIRLS when he "let" them get kidnapped... god abandoned the GIRLS again when he "let" the POS's have their way with the them Well look at it this way, God didn't abandon the 200 girls when he didn't specifically "let" them do anything. It's called free will, those men will have their reward for that which they did. So we can look at it as God allowed them to get into that situation, but why don't we go more of a "God rescued those 200 girls" from the situation? that just sounds soooo hypocritical... he "allows" them to get kidnapped and raped, free will on the muslims that kidnapped them, and then you think he "rescued" them, but then thats where the free will stops... 
How does that stop the free will? Nothing or no one was "forced" to do anything. And having a "negative" outcome of a choice is not taking free will away either, as the person still has the choice to make the action in the first place. |
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abortion is murder, the baby didn't ask to be put there and they deserve life. who is anybody to put an end to a life because its not convenient to them raped or not raped. if you don't feel you can love that child then give the child up for adoption, don't end a special deserving life. that is just my view. Glad you could share that you have good views, but what exactly are those views? And just who are those views good as well? Amen :) you are more perfect then you think.... seek the will of our father Jesus Christ :) It's not about the "church", it's about Jesus. And sorry a "church" has done you wrong in one way or another... but again it's not about the "church" |
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abortion is murder, the baby didn't ask to be put there and they deserve life. who is anybody to put an end to a life because its not convenient to them raped or not raped. if you don't feel you can love that child then give the child up for adoption, don't end a special deserving life. that is just my view. Glad you could share that you have good views, but what exactly are those views? And just who are those views good as well? Amen :) you are more perfect then you think.... seek the will of our father Jesus Christ :) |
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abortion is murder, the baby didn't ask to be put there and they deserve life. who is anybody to put an end to a life because its not convenient to them raped or not raped. if you don't feel you can love that child then give the child up for adoption, don't end a special deserving life. that is just my view. Glad you could share that you have good views, but what exactly are those views? And just who are those views good as well? |
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Well look at it this way, God didn't abandon the 200 girls when he didn't specifically "let" them do anything. It's called free will, those men will have their reward for that which they did. So we can look at it as God allowed them to get into that situation, but why don't we go more of a "God rescued those 200 girls" from the situation? Uh, point of information: Nowhere does the Bible say that God gives each Human unlimited free will. We now return to this thread, which is already in progress. Free will = the ability to do whatever one wishes to do, whenever, wherever. God doesn't have to say "ye have free will". "Choices" is free will. With either, one would not have the other. Not saying that's giving permission to do whatever, whenever, where ever, just the fact that we have the ability to do so or not do so is what free will is. |
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CowboyGH - Insisting that your religious beliefs take precedence over the choices these young girls may make shows a complete lack of empathy for the horrors these girls have endured. They and only they should be the ones to make such decisions and frankly it is none of your business. I understand where you're coming from, you just don't seem to see where I'm coming from. - Is that fetus not a living being? - Does that fetus not have life? If either of those are a yes, then who's right is it for anyone to take it away? Even if the parent didn't intend to be impregnated for any number of reasons. That child's life is not a possession, it does not belong to the mother. yes it does, until it's an adult... your trying to force women to have babies they might not be able to afford, deal with, or even want... so much for god letting people make their OWN decisions... No it doesn't. A baby's life is just that, the baby's life. The baby is not a possession, a thing, or an object. Not trying to force anyone to do anything, if they did not wish to get impregnated they should not have been having sex. If it was from rape, can always put the child up for adoption. As life begins at conception. So again, how can anyone have control over if someone keeps their life or looses it especially when they've done absolutely nothing to influence the possibility of either choices? well, the law says your wrong... does god teach this baby or does the mother? if something happens to the baby, is god going to jail? is god paying for everything for the baby? Wasn't speaking of man's law. That living being inside a mother is just that, a living being. Weather it can feel or not, even if it won't ever know what's happening to it. Doesn't matter, bottom line is it's taking the life of another. That's why they allow abortion up to a certain amount of weeks, till then the fetus/baby wouldn't feel it. But that's not the point again weather if it can feel it or not, it's taking the life of a living soul. well, look at it this way then.... god abandoned the 200 GIRLS when he "let" them get kidnapped... god abandoned the GIRLS again when he "let" the POS's have their way with the them... now you say they should listen to god and not abort the fetus's because god doesn't want anyone "murdered"... me being atheist/agnostic says god lost his wants when he let this happen to them in the first place... if any of these girls want to keep the babies, more power to them, i wish them the best... and the same goes if any of the girls want to abort the babies... if i was a doctor, i would do it for them for free... Who says God abandoned those women? Who's to say those 200 girls won't have a huge reward in Heaven for their trials on Earth? Why only look at the temporary? Life on Earth is only temporary and but a blink of an eye in the long run. And who ever said God would keep us from such things? Would be impossible unless he took someone's free will away, "the men the kidnapped" in this instance. Those men did what they did and will receive their reward in the matter, just as those innocent women will. God never said he would keep us from danger, but that he would be there to help us. And who's to say that's not why those girls were found? |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Fri 05/08/15 01:53 PM
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CowboyGH - Insisting that your religious beliefs take precedence over the choices these young girls may make shows a complete lack of empathy for the horrors these girls have endured. They and only they should be the ones to make such decisions and frankly it is none of your business. I understand where you're coming from, you just don't seem to see where I'm coming from. - Is that fetus not a living being? - Does that fetus not have life? If either of those are a yes, then who's right is it for anyone to take it away? Even if the parent didn't intend to be impregnated for any number of reasons. That child's life is not a possession, it does not belong to the mother. yes it does, until it's an adult... your trying to force women to have babies they might not be able to afford, deal with, or even want... so much for god letting people make their OWN decisions... No it doesn't. A baby's life is just that, the baby's life. The baby is not a possession, a thing, or an object. Not trying to force anyone to do anything, if they did not wish to get impregnated they should not have been having sex. If it was from rape, can always put the child up for adoption. As life begins at conception. So again, how can anyone have control over if someone keeps their life or looses it especially when they've done absolutely nothing to influence the possibility of either choices? well, the law says your wrong... does god teach this baby or does the mother? if something happens to the baby, is god going to jail? is god paying for everything for the baby? Wasn't speaking of man's law. That living being inside a mother is just that, a living being. Weather it can feel or not, even if it won't ever know what's happening to it. Doesn't matter, bottom line is it's taking the life of another. That's why they allow abortion up to a certain amount of weeks, till then the fetus/baby wouldn't feel it. But that's not the point again weather if it can feel it or not, it's taking the life of a living soul. well, look at it this way then.... god abandoned the 200 GIRLS when he "let" them get kidnapped... god abandoned the GIRLS again when he "let" the POS's have their way with the them... now you say they should listen to god and not abort the fetus's because god doesn't want anyone "murdered"... me being atheist/agnostic says god lost his wants when he let this happen to them in the first place... if any of these girls want to keep the babies, more power to them, i wish them the best... and the same goes if any of the girls want to abort the babies... if i was a doctor, i would do it for them for free... well, look at it this way then.... god abandoned the 200 GIRLS when he "let" them get kidnapped... god abandoned the GIRLS again when he "let" the POS's have their way with the them Well look at it this way, God didn't abandon the 200 girls when he didn't specifically "let" them do anything. It's called free will, those men will have their reward for that which they did. So we can look at it as God allowed them to get into that situation, but why don't we go more of a "God rescued those 200 girls" from the situation? |
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214 of the girls Nigerian Army rescued fron Boko Haram Islamic Terrorists from their forest strong hold last week have been confirmed pregnant.Apparently from repeated rapes (not that I am surprised anyway). My question is considering the psychological consequences of this,both long and short term,can abortion be justified in this instance? Both muslims,christians and all, your view I say no, who's to say one's life is less important then another? And one can't call anything a "life" unless they've lived it. They would miss out on some possible hard times because of doing this, but they would miss out on any and all chances to experience love, laughter, happiness, excitement, and so forth many many more things they would totally and completely miss out on. what love, laughter, happiness, excitement, and so forth many many more things are you talking about? Time to set that infernal Book away and act like a compassionate human being for crying out loud! 
that Book some of you Guys are trying to foist on everyone! That's the one! Conrad, seeing that you arrived late to this thread, I'll spare you the trouble of reading its previous pages by repeating something that I said earlier: The Bible is silent on the topic of abortion. One might argue that some people are reading into the Bible something that isn't there. Exodus 20:13 13 Thou shalt not kill. |
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Never mind the vicious nonsense of claiming that an embryo has a right to life. A piece of protoplasm has no rights and no life in the human sense of the term. One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy, but the essential issue concerns only the first three months. To equate a potential with an actual, is vicious; to advocate the sacrifice of the latter to the former, is unspeakable. . . . Observe that by ascribing rights to the unborn, i.e., the nonliving, the anti-abortionists obliterate the rights of the living: the right of young people to set the course of their own lives. The task of raising a child is a tremendous, lifelong responsibility, which no one should undertake unwittingly or unwillingly. Procreation is not a duty: human beings are not stock-farm animals. For conscientious persons, an unwanted pregnancy is a disaster; to oppose its termination is to advocate sacrifice, not for the sake of anyone's benefit, but for the sake of misery qua misery, for the sake of forbidding happiness and fulfillment to living human beings. http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/abortion.html Things don't just "change". That is a living being at conception. Or in the longest run a "potential" person. |
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I rest my case What did the child do to deserve such a punishment? If nothing, then why is the child punished for something someone else did? Where's the justification in that? I didn't say right or wrong. You have no clue the nightmare it would be. Right or wrong, it's for God to judge not you When a man gets pregnant from rape, then I will listen Again, it's not the woman's life being taken away we're talking about here. It's about the little child inside of her that has absolutely nothing to do with how it was created. And abortion is murdering that child before again it does anything whatsoever and will never experience life's experiences. And only ever have experience of being murdered through the abortion. For again the baby did absolutely nothing to deserve the death penalty. And the "the baby doesn't feel it" doesn't justify it, for that execution will keep that child from ever experiencing anything in this world good or bad and even down to again feeling the grass between their twos or the wind on their face. Just because someone decided their life wasn't worth anything because of the way it was made. I didn't say that at all! A woman's life is in a sense taken away! Right or wrong it is for God to judge. Humans aren't God! Yes, woman's life is "in a sense taken away", the baby's life is literally taken away. No we aren't God, so why is it our discretion to say if the child lives or dies? 
Fetus is a baby. It doesn't miraculously turn into a baby when it's born. It's a baby, a life form, a being, a soul baring person from the moment of conception. Again regardless if it can feel the pain or not. |
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