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| Topic: Women In The Bible | |
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we are not 'punished' we are given the opportunity to accept God and his salvation to have eternal life or to reject him and his salvation to be seperated from him eternally we have a CHOICE,,,, Yes true. We aren't "punished" on a daily basis. As in if someone steals something, they won't be "punished" for that act, they won't be put in time out so to speak lol. But things such as the pain of child birth is a punishment put on the female gender. God only rewards us on Earth, not punishes. You can look at it though and say the not receiving a reward to be a punishment. But he doesn't specifically have something bad happen to you because you did something or didn't ect. So actually a Cesarean is against Gods Order then,since it circumvents that "Pain" the Female is supposed to be inflicted with? Sheesh! Religion really has raised Havoc with the Human Mind! It seems I was a bit off here, it's not necessarily "pain". "I will greatly multiply your pain (etsev) in childbearing; in pain (etsev) you shall bring forth children", whereas Gen 3:17, in the same version, reads: "To Adam he said... Cursed is the ground because of you; in toil (etsev) you shall eat of it all the days of your life." The word "etsev" has the root meaning of labor or toil, or giving of oneself in the fashioning of a work |
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If any one religious path was the correct path, then ALL experiences into the afterlife would indicate that. But it simply doesn't work that way. the path is long with many potential detours, but it ends up at the same destination if it is to be so,,, I can drive to california from las vegas many different ways, because I am on the same continent , there are details that can vary but I could never drive to england from las vegas, as that is a path that just is not possible,,,whatever the details,,, You really can't compare a physical path to a spiritual one. The limitations that we have here cease to exist in the spiritual realm. That is to say there aren't any. They are not the same things. Further, if God is unlimited, than the paths to it cannot be somehow limited it would make no sense. Why would an unlimited being limit the paths by which it could be reached, making itself limited in so doing? It just doesn't work. because what God can do is unlimited doesnt mean that WE dont have limits. IM confused about the logic which constantly judges HIM by what 'we' would do but also states that because he is unlimited there is no such limit on US.... ?????? why should an unlimited being limit anything? and yet, humans have limits,,, imagine that,,,, Maybe cause it wanted it that way? God is not gonna make a mistake. Things are the way they are (yes even the bad) cause it was wanted to be as such. If God didn't wish it, it wouldn't have created it the way it did. Everything and everyone is as it was supposed to be. To say otherwise is to say God didn't know what it was doing when it created the world, which would be silly to say of a being supposed to be perfect. The whole thing with limitations though is, if God doesn't have them, why would it limit whom it loves or saves? If it has the power to save and love all, why would it not do it? If you had that power wouldn't you? I dont know, IM not God, IM a mere human I do know that we sometimes ask of people to help themself FIRST, or we are just making them dependent I dont imagine that this would be unreasonable for a God to require either,, not just handing out salvation out of 'love', but asking that people SEEK it through faith and works,,, But then you'd have a God that's supposedly loving everyone unconditionally, placing conditions on how to get it. That simply does not work, it's a total contradiction. It cannot work both ways, either God loves unconditionally, meaning no conditions on giving love no matter what happens, or it doesn't. And you never really responded to the point I was trying to make either. IF one way was the ONLY path to God, such as Christians claim their way is, why WOULDN'T everyone see this truth in their near death experiences? If you were God, and you wanted your people to know something of it, something that you knew they couldn't do without and their eternal soul rested on knowing it, would you not pull out all the stops to ensure that they did? What better place would there be but to tell them in the near death state of consciousness? Fact is, everyone has a different experience when it comes to the afterlife, no one is the same as another depending on what they believe. That alone tells me that there cannot be just one path, because if there were all the experiences would be the same pointing that out, and they aren't and don't. the point you made seems like false logic to me, which is why I Didnt respond the assumption that everyone must have the same near death experience to prove there is only one path does not represent anything I posted, there being only one way is one extreme, all ways being the way is the other I dont believe EITHER to be true, I Think there is one destination which is Gods, there are several roads , collectively, that can all lead there,, but all roads wont lead there anymore than only one road will,,, IF all paths lead to God, we would already be in paradise and there would be no purpose to our mortality,,,, Unless that purpose for being here is entirely different than you have been told. Like what if........evil existed not because we are bad, not because we fell from grace or anything of the sort, but because God wanted it to exist? What if it too had a purpose? What if everything and everyone did? Earlier, we spoke of God's justice. I may create a thread on the subject eventually, but since we're going that way I will mention it here now. IF it all has a purpose, and God knowingly allows for evil to exist for said purpose, then it would NOT be just to punish a person for being that way, because in order for evil to exist there must with it exist the person or persons that are doing it. If there's no one to do it or no one who will, then it cannot be. Someone has to play the role. Now obviously it doesn't mean we should strive to be evil or bad or anything like that at all, love of course is what should be aimed for. BUT, since it must exist as part of God's purpose, the people who do evil things have a reason for being and for doing them. As such, they in their own way are doing the will of God as much as someone who is trying to be good is, because again it ALL has a purpose and a place. Henceforth, their path would eventually return them to God as much as any other path would because of that very fact. Unless that purpose for being here is entirely different than you have been told. Like what if........evil existed not because we are bad, not because we fell from grace or anything of the sort, but because God wanted it to exist? What if it too had a purpose? What if everything and everyone did? It does have a purpose. Without the "evil" or foul things happening in our lives, we wouldn't know that experience. We would become "spoiled" so to speak. We wouldn't be as grateful. If you have absolutely no bad times, you won't appreciate the good times, at least not as much, again you would think there could be better. That's EXACTLY my point Cowboy, you don't think God knew this when it created us? We could not know good without evil, it'd be like the yin without the yang to balance it. You have to have both. If God knew this, why are we punished for when it's something God knew we'd need and wanted? It makes no sense whatsoever. Makes perfect sense. Being told something is totally different then experiencing it ourselves. If God would have made us to where we automatically just were obedient, we wouldn't be doing it out of love. We would just automatically act accordingly. We would be nothing more then puppets so to speak. That's not what God wants, God wants a relationship, he wants us to love him because we want to, not because we have to. No it doesn't, cause your God STILL forces us to make a certain choice if we want to live, there is no free will in a forced choice like that even if we appear to have some form of one. No amount of trying to argue it will make it true. no, he doesnt. You have a life and I have a life, whatever our choice,, but our choices in that LIFE may give us the added GIFT of eternal life,,, It's still a forced choice because we have no other option if we wanna keep living. No matter how you wanna twist it around it will always be a form of terrorism on the soul. Still not forced. Death is the end of life. We were born to die so to speak. Jesus offers eternal life as a gift if one is willing to accept his lord-ship and obey. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sun 12/04/11 02:46 PM
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Still not forced. Death is the end of life. We were born to die so to speak. Jesus offers eternal life as a gift if one is willing to accept his lord-ship and obey. Cowboy,It's NOT about accepting his lord-ship and obeying!!!! Salvation is accepting the FREE GIFT OF GRACE OFFERED!!! NOTHING ELSE REQUIRED !!!~!!! Works FOLLOW .... AFTERWARDS!!!! OBEDIENCE FOLLOWS ......AFTERWARDS...NOT BEFORE!!!! IF WE COULD OBEY, WE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD A NEED FOR A SAVIOUR IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!! I finally got pretty fed up ,seeing the false teaching CONTINUE ON AND ON on here, in the name of Jesus Christ !!! This erroneous teaching of yours, has been going on now, for over 2 years on here already!!! TIME FOR IT TO STOP...FOR IT GROSSLY MISREPRESENTS CHRISTIANITY !!!!!!!!! Also...death is NOT the end of life.....WE GO ON.....ETERNALLY....SOMEWHERE....EITHER WITH GOD OR APART FROM GOD....BUT WE GO ON.....IT'S IN SCRIPTURES...PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Enough is enough already!!! 
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Sun 12/04/11 03:08 PM
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Cowboy wrote: Still not forced. Death is the end of life. We were born to die so to speak. Jesus offers eternal life as a gift if one is willing to accept his lord-ship and obey. I agree with MorningSong. The gospels do not have Jesus asking anyone to accept his "lord-ship" or "obey him". That's a total misrepresentation of Christianity. Like MorningSong suggests, if it were merely about obedience that could have been done without Jesus. We could have simply chosen to obey God in the first place. No need for Jesus at all in that case. So your understanding of Christianity is necessarily flawed Cowboy. It simply cannot be as you claim. You are missing the point to Jesus in this religion. If it was all about accepting "Lord-ship" and "obedience" as you claim, that could have all been done through the original God of Abraham. So you're clearly missing the whole point of Jesus in this religious paradigm. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 12/04/11 05:13 PM
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for consideration:
NOWHERE does Jesus actually state what being born is specifically regarding baptism or his 'grace' or acceptance of his 'lordship' or obedience,, so thats personally interpreted, but he does go on to say in John 3 John 3 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]” 4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d] Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sun 12/04/11 06:09 PM
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"NOTHING in my hand I bring
simply to the cross I cling " There is nothing more we can add or bring, to what Jesus already did for us all. Just BELEIVE and RECEIVE BY FAITH, the FREE GIFT OF GRACE BEING OFFERED UP TO US ALL. NO RELIGIOUS WORKS REQUIRED. NOTHING ELSE REQUIRED. HOWEVER...BECAUSE OF A BRAND NEW HEART BEATING WITHIN US, THAT HAPPENS AS A RESULT OF SALVATION TAKING PLACE ,THERE WILL BE A WILLING DESIRE TO OBEY AND PLEASE GOD NOW.......AND WORKS WILL ALSO FOLLOW ....AS PROOF THAT SALVATION ACTUALLY TOOK PLACE. SO YES...AFTERWARDS WE OBEY GLADLY ...BECAUSE OF LOVE FOR GOD IN US NOW ,WHICH COMES AS A RESULT OF OUR NEW NATURE. BUT ,WORKS AND OBEDIENCE ARE NOT REQUIRED, IN ORDER TO RECEIVE SALVATION. SALVATION IS OFFERED FREELY....NO WORKS REQUIRED......BECAUSE GOD HIMSELF ( THRU JESUS CHRIST GOD'S SON ) ,ALREADY PAID THE PRICE IN FULL ON THE CROSS. THERE IS NOTHING MORE WE COULD EVER EVER EVER ADD, TO WHAT JESUS ALREADY DID ON THAT CROSS FOR US !!!!  |
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Cowboy wrote: Still not forced. Death is the end of life. We were born to die so to speak. Jesus offers eternal life as a gift if one is willing to accept his lord-ship and obey. I agree with MorningSong. The gospels do not have Jesus asking anyone to accept his "lord-ship" or "obey him". That's a total misrepresentation of Christianity. Like MorningSong suggests, if it were merely about obedience that could have been done without Jesus. We could have simply chosen to obey God in the first place. No need for Jesus at all in that case. So your understanding of Christianity is necessarily flawed Cowboy. It simply cannot be as you claim. You are missing the point to Jesus in this religion. If it was all about accepting "Lord-ship" and "obedience" as you claim, that could have all been done through the original God of Abraham. So you're clearly missing the whole point of Jesus in this religious paradigm. If it was all about accepting "Lord-ship" and "obedience" as you claim, that could have all been done through the original God of Abraham. Like MorningSong suggests, if it were merely about obedience that could have been done without Jesus. We could have simply chosen to obey God in the first place. No need for Jesus at all in that case No it can not be. Definition of Lord - one having power and authority over others If one accepts Jesus as lord, they will then obey his commandments because they have given Jesus authority over them. If one obeys Jesus' commandments, they will achieve Heaven. There is no other way to achieve Heaven but through obeying Jesus our god. Acts 16:31 31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. John 14:6 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 3:36 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Acts 4:12 12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Sun 12/04/11 06:55 PM
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"NOTHING in my hand I bring simply to the cross I cling " There is nothing more we can add or bring, to what Jesus already did for us all. Just BELEIVE and RECEIVE BY FAITH, the FREE GIFT OF GRACE BEING OFFERED UP TO US ALL. NO RELIGIOUS WORKS REQUIRED. NOTHING ELSE REQUIRED. HOWEVER...BECAUSE OF A BRAND NEW HEART BEATING WITHIN US, THAT HAPPENS AS A RESULT OF SALVATION TAKING PLACE ,THERE WILL BE A WILLING DESIRE TO OBEY AND PLEASE GOD NOW.......AND WORKS WILL ALSO FOLLOW ....AS PROOF THAT SALVATION ACTUALLY TOOK PLACE. SO YES...AFTERWARDS WE OBEY GLADLY ...BECAUSE OF LOVE FOR GOD IN US NOW ,WHICH COMES AS A RESULT OF OUR NEW NATURE. BUT ,WORKS AND OBEDIENCE ARE NOT REQUIRED, IN ORDER TO RECEIVE SALVATION. SALVATION IS OFFERED FREELY....NO WORKS REQUIRED......BECAUSE GOD HIMSELF ( THRU JESUS CHRIST GOD'S SON ) ,ALREADY PAID THE PRICE IN FULL ON THE CROSS. THERE IS NOTHING MORE WE COULD EVER EVER EVER ADD, TO WHAT JESUS ALREADY DID ON THAT CROSS FOR US !!!! SALVATION IS OFFERED FREELY....NO WORKS REQUIRED......BECAUSE GOD HIMSELF ( THRU JESUS CHRIST GOD'S SON ) ,ALREADY PAID THE PRICE IN FULL ON THE CROSS. THERE IS NOTHING MORE WE COULD EVER EVER EVER ADD, TO WHAT JESUS ALREADY DID ON THAT CROSS FOR US !!!! That's like saying "believing in Jesus gives you permission to do what you want in this world, doesn't matter any ways because the belief in Jesus will save you". No, faith without works is dead. One can not just talk the talk and or "have the faith". One must try their best to walk in the steps of Jesus. Jesus took on the form of a person on Earth to give an example and to show it is possible to overcome the lusts of the flesh. "works" aren't something special. It's not like he's telling us we need to do special things to achieve eternal life like ceremonies, rituals, special things or anything of such. Works is your everyday actions. If one lies, they will reap the reward for such an action, if someone tells the truth they will reap the reward for such. If someone shows hatred to someone, they will reap the reward for such. If someone shows love to someone, they will reap the reward for such. Ect. "works" is your everyday actions. If you follow in the step Jesus laid out for us or not. Nothing special or out of the ordinary eg., rituals, ceremonies, ect. |
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"NOTHING in my hand I bring simply to the cross I cling " There is nothing more we can add or bring, to what Jesus already did for us all. Just BELEIVE and RECEIVE BY FAITH, the FREE GIFT OF GRACE BEING OFFERED UP TO US ALL. NO RELIGIOUS WORKS REQUIRED. NOTHING ELSE REQUIRED. HOWEVER...BECAUSE OF A BRAND NEW HEART BEATING WITHIN US, THAT HAPPENS AS A RESULT OF SALVATION TAKING PLACE ,THERE WILL BE A WILLING DESIRE TO OBEY AND PLEASE GOD NOW.......AND WORKS WILL ALSO FOLLOW ....AS PROOF THAT SALVATION ACTUALLY TOOK PLACE. SO YES...AFTERWARDS WE OBEY GLADLY ...BECAUSE OF LOVE FOR GOD IN US NOW ,WHICH COMES AS A RESULT OF OUR NEW NATURE. BUT ,WORKS AND OBEDIENCE ARE NOT REQUIRED, IN ORDER TO RECEIVE SALVATION. SALVATION IS OFFERED FREELY....NO WORKS REQUIRED......BECAUSE GOD HIMSELF ( THRU JESUS CHRIST GOD'S SON ) ,ALREADY PAID THE PRICE IN FULL ON THE CROSS. THERE IS NOTHING MORE WE COULD EVER EVER EVER ADD, TO WHAT JESUS ALREADY DID ON THAT CROSS FOR US !!!! THERE IS NOTHING MORE WE COULD EVER EVER EVER ADD, TO WHAT JESUS ALREADY DID ON THAT CROSS FOR US !!!! Jesus fulfilled the prophesies of the covenant died on the cross for us. And defeated death for all with his resurrection. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sun 12/04/11 07:03 PM
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That's like saying "believing in Jesus gives you permission to do what you want in this world, doesn't matter any ways because the belief in Jesus will save you". No, faith without works is dead. One can not just talk the talk and or "have the faith". One must try their best to walk in the steps of Jesus. Jesus took on the form of a person on Earth to give an example and to show it is possible to overcome the lusts of the flesh. COWBOY ,NO MAN CAN OBEY GOD ON HIS OWN STRENGTH, EXCEPT HE BE SAVED FIRST. TO TRY AND OBEY WITHOUT BEING SAVED FIRST, IS CALLED DOING RELIGIOUS WORKS!!!! SAME GOES WITH TRYING TO EARN ONE'S WAY TO SALVATION, BY ADDING WORKS TO FAITH( THAT'S LIKE SAYING GOD DID NOT DO ENOUGH FOR US ON THAT CROSS.......YOU'RE SAYING WE HAVE TO NOW ADD OUR STINKIN WORKS ALSO , IN ORDER TO GET SAVED!!!) NOT SO, COWBOY !!! OUR WORKS ARE AS FILTHY RAGS IN GOD'S EYES....SO IS THINKING WE HAVE TO NOW ALSO ADD OUR STINKING WORKS TO OUR FAITH ,IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED !! IF WE COULD OBEY GOD ON OUR OWN STRENGTH ,WE WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD A NEED FOR A SAVIOUR IN THE FIRST PLACE...THAT IS WHY GOD SENT US A SAVIOUR...CAUSE HE SAW US FAIL MISERABLY AT TRYING TO OBEY AND KEEP THE LAW ON OUR OWN STRENGTH...WE COULDN'T...GOD KNEW THIS.... BUT NOW THRU JESUS LIVING IN US AFTER WE ARE SAVED (AND NOT BEFORE ), ARE WE NOW ABLE TO OBEY GOD GLADLY!!! |
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CowboyGH,
If you give a tree water and good soil, it will grow and bear fruit. It doesn't bear fruit in hopes of getting water and good soil. Works are an expression of salvation, not a condition of salvation. If you are "saved" and you don't feel moved to do good works, then maybe you aren't saved. Salvation can't be bought or bribed, the good works have to be a natural result of who you are, they can't be done in an attempt to be good. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Sun 12/04/11 07:04 PM
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That's like saying "believing in Jesus gives you permission to do what you want in this world, doesn't matter any ways because the belief in Jesus will save you". No, faith without works is dead. One can not just talk the talk and or "have the faith". One must try their best to walk in the steps of Jesus. Jesus took on the form of a person on Earth to give an example and to show it is possible to overcome the lusts of the flesh. COWBOY ,NO MAN CAN OBEY GOD ON HIS OWN STRENGTH, EXCCEPT HE BE SAVED FIRST. TO TRY AND OBEY WITHOUT BEING SAVED FIRST, IS CALLED DOING RELIGIOUS WORKS!!!! SAME GOES WITH TRYING TO EARN ONE'S WAY TO SALVATION, BY ADDING WORKS TO FAITH( THAT'S LIKE SAYING GOD DID NOT DO ENOUGH FOR US ON THAT CROSS.......YOU'RE SAYING WE HAVE TO NOW ADD OUR STINKIN WORKS ALSO , IN ORDER TO GET SAVED!!!) NOT SO, COWBOY !!! OUR WORKS ARE AS FILTHY RAGS IN GOD'S EYES....SO IS THINKING WE HAVE TO NOW ALSO ADD OUR STINKING WORKS TO OUR FAITH ,IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED !! IF WE COULD OBEY GOD ON OUR OWN STRENGTH ,WE WOUD NEVER HAVE HAD A NEED FOR A SAVIOUR IN THE FIRST PLACE...THAT IS WHY GOD SENT US A SAVIOUR...CAUSE HE SAW US FAIL MISERABLY AT TRYING TO OBEY AND KEEP THE LAW ON OUR OWN STRENGTH...WE COULDN'T...GOD KNEW THIS.... BUT NOW THRU JESUS LIVING IN US AFTER WE ARE SAVED (AND NOT BEFORE ), ARE WE NOW ABLE TO OBEY GOD GLADLY!!! COWBOY ,NO MAN CAN OBEY GOD ON HIS OWN STRENGTH, EXCCEPT HE BE SAVED FIRST. TO TRY AND OBEY WITHOUT BEING SAVED FIRST, IS CALLED DOING RELIGIOUS WORKS!!!! Then the following verse is lying? Acts 2:38 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Because if this could not be done on our own, why say it? Why give the impression it can be? Why tell someone to repent, if they can not do it on their own? But no we can no be saved on our own. We are saved through the blood of Jesus. |
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CowboyGH, If you give a tree water and good soil, it will grow and bear fruit. It doesn't bear fruit in hopes of getting water and good soil. Works are an expression of salvation, not a condition of salvation. If you are "saved" and you don't feel moved to do good works, then maybe you aren't saved. Salvation can't be bought or bribed, the good works have to be a natural result of who you are, they can't be done in an attempt to be good. Takes both to be "saved". Can faith save a person? 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. James 2:14-26 14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. |
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Jesus fulfilled the prophesies of the covenant died on the cross for us. And defeated death for all with his resurrection. JESUS BORE OUR SINS ON THAT CROSS,BUT NOT ONLY OUR SINS, BUT ALSO OUR SICKNESS, DISEASES, GRIEFS, AND SORROWS ON THAT CROSS ALSO.... SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO BEAR THEM ANYMORE. |
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CowboyGH, If you give a tree water and good soil, it will grow and bear fruit. It doesn't bear fruit in hopes of getting water and good soil. Works are an expression of salvation, not a condition of salvation. If you are "saved" and you don't feel moved to do good works, then maybe you aren't saved. Salvation can't be bought or bribed, the good works have to be a natural result of who you are, they can't be done in an attempt to be good. Takes both to be "saved". Can faith save a person? 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. James 2:14-26 14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Works are a confirmation of your faith. If your works show the contrary to what you say your faith is, then are you telling the truth about your faith? Do you truly believe as such if you do not act accordingly? That's why we will be judged in the end of times. If it only took faith, what would there then to be judged on? |
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Jesus fulfilled the prophesies of the covenant died on the cross for us. And defeated death for all with his resurrection. JESUS BORE OUR SINS ON THAT CROSS,BUT NOT ONLY OUR SINS, BUT ALSO OUR SICKNESS, DISEASES, GRIEFS, AND SORROWS ON THAT CROSS ALSO.... SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO BEAR THEM ANYMORE. Exactly. |
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Jesus fulfilled the prophesies of the covenant died on the cross for us. And defeated death for all with his resurrection. JESUS BORE OUR SINS ON THAT CROSS,BUT NOT ONLY OUR SINS, BUT ALSO OUR SICKNESS, DISEASES, GRIEFS, AND SORROWS ON THAT CROSS ALSO.... SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO BEAR THEM ANYMORE. Exactly. That is why Jesus' death is such a great thing. Jesus did not do one sin his entire life, yet he took our sins in him and died for us on that cross so we could have eternal life through him. And the resurrection was Jesus defeating death for us all, giving us eternal life evermore. |
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CowboyGH, If you give a tree water and good soil, it will grow and bear fruit. It doesn't bear fruit in hopes of getting water and good soil. Works are an expression of salvation, not a condition of salvation. If you are "saved" and you don't feel moved to do good works, then maybe you aren't saved. Salvation can't be bought or bribed, the good works have to be a natural result of who you are, they can't be done in an attempt to be good. Takes both to be "saved". Can faith save a person? 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. James 2:14-26 14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. CowboyGH, If you read the Greek of James 2:14, you'll find that between "can" and "faith" is the word mē, which is a part of speech used to negate the existence of a thing. In Wayne's World speech, James is saying "Yeah, you have faith...NOT!" and Garth is playing air guitar and they are both laughing. The implication is that the faith they have is fake, because there are no works. Faith manifests works, that is the message James tried to get across to his followers and it's a message that you have steadfastly refused to accept. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sun 12/04/11 07:23 PM
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COWBOY.....YOU TWISTED MY WORDS AGAIN.... I WAS
SAYING WE CAN'T OBEY ON OUR OWN STRENGTH ,UNTIL WE ARE SAVED ( TO DO SO IS JUST WORKS)...YET YOU TWISTED MY WORDS AGAIN, TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE I WAS SAYING IT ISN'T NECCESSARY TO OBEY GOD AT ALL. POINT BEING, YOU TURN WHAT I SAY INTO SOMETHING ENTIRELY DIFFERENT . YOU HAVE PULLED THIS ON ME MANY TIMES BEFORE.... THEREFORE, DO NOT RESPOND TO MY POSTS ANYMORE ON HERE ....OK? I AM DONE . |
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24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED...YES...BUT THAT DID NOT SAY BY WORKS A MAN IS SAVED !!!! PLEASE STOP WITH YOUR TWISTINNG AND MISINTERPRETING SCRIPTURE ON HERE!! |
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