Romans 10:9-10
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


No it is not his responsibility. It is our responsibility to do as the father says.

Matthew 7:21

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

How do you know that?
What would make you better able to determine that another has the message wrong and that you, or any other humans, are the optimal source of correction?

Morning song wrote a reply to my last post as well. Her message states (paraphrasing) that you must be born again in order to receive the message and then you will receive the exact same message as all other born again Christians.

But how does she know they all have the same message? How does one know they must born again to receive this message in the first place?

If you must be born again to be a receiver then we might assume that the only way to know that you have to be ‘born again’, and how to accomplish that task, is through word of mouth (humans).

That means some a lot of people are being TAUGHT what to believe by other people before they can ever be born again in the first place.

There are a lot of born again Christians who are no longer affiliated with that particular denomination because of difference in their messages.

It would be interesting to do a study about that. We could choose 10,000 people who have no understanding of the concepts of born again Christians. Then we could ask them if they would like to be ‘born again’ and follow the religious teachings of Holy Spirit (aka – God) in how being born again is accomplished. Then we could follow some course of ritual that does not include training about the actual beliefs and see how many get instruction from the Holy Spirit.

Then we could write down what those instructions were and compare them to each other for similarity. Then, we can question a large number of previous born again Christians with the questions we asked the newly born and compare for similarity. We could also include a questionnaire of the those who were born again and later rejected it. Finally we have a group of randomly selected Christians of all denominations and see how they answer the questionnaire.

Do you think that would work? If it did work and the study showed a significant correlation between previous and newly born again Christians, and you’re not a born again Christian, would you be willing to stand correction of many of your beliefs and values and become a born again Christian?




If it is the Holy Spirit that guides and the recipient is willingly submitting but still getting the message wrong, who do you think can best advise the recipient who mistranslated the message given to him?

I think it would be a matter between the Holy Spirit and the individual and the least likely second best in no one at all, because no one can know if the message they hold on to is the right one. And I'm not trying to be antagonistic, it’s simply pointing out the problems I see in people’s views.



The way I see it, correcting others for mistakes in their religious belief is a self-absorbed act because, as I’ve said, how does anyone know that he/she alone has the correct message?

Maybe it depends on whether you think all Christians are still seeking truth or if some have truth and some do not. OOPS back to that question again, how do you know who might have the truth, if anyone does?

In that case shouldn’t ALL Christians be seeking truth and shouldn’t they all be consulting their God (AKA Holy Spirit) for that information instead of the humans you say are so prone to faults?

I think religious beliefs would benefit from more consistency and less comparison. The consistency could stand to be increased in the area of personal relationship with one’s God. If the relationship is indeed personal than shouldn’t the message a person received be individualized?

If people really believed that there would be no need to compare messages or make corrections to another’s message because we have no way of knowing or having insight into another person’s personal relationship and what gets exchanged in that relationship – do we?

I get that, but you said and I quote:

"Only those who have

been drawn through special revelation—by the power of the Holy

Spirit and the grace of God—will come to Christ.
Only those who have

been drawn through special revelation—by the power of the Holy

Spirit and the grace of God—will come to Christ."

That clearly indicates he does NOT draw all because if he did, everyone would be saved since he controls who he draws to come to him and who he does not. But everyone according to you isn't.

There is no way around it, if God and only God can draw people to him, and not everyone is saved, then he did NOT come for all.

Cowboy.....this simply means that not everyone who

says Lord Lord Is TRULY SAVED .....in other words... they

have never actually been BORN AGAIN.



They did the saving of themselves....and NOT God.


NO ONE can save themselves..it is of God's doing....not man....

God Draws..we respond...but of course, we can choose to also

reject when God draws...

But when God draws and the Holy Spirit convicts, Who shall

reject God?

Except the COLDEST heart?


When God draws man ,HE also knows when man is

truly ready to respond to Him...and hear...and believe....and

receive Him.

Kleisto..you misunderstood what was being said...

the special revelatuon IS the Power of the Holy Spirit and the

Grace of God at Work......THAT is the drawing Power of God....


Again..it is saying rigHT there..that UNTIL GOD DRAWS, no man can

be saved.....it is NOT saying that God will only draw SOME.


God draws All....but THEN, we have the choice to respond by

either accepting Him or rejecting Him....but we can do

NOTHING UNTIL GOD FIRST DRAWS US....and CONVICTS US OF OUR SIN

AND OUR NEED FOR A SAVIOUR....

NOTICE.....GOD WILL ALSO CONVICT US ...SO THAT WE ARE ABLE TO

UNDERSTAND OUR NEED FOR HIM....

AGAIN..GOD FIRST DRAW US UNTO HIM ,SIMPLY BECAUSE GOD ALREADY

KNOWS WE ARE INCAPABLE OF COMING TO GOD ON OUR OWN ,WITHOUT

GOD FIRST DRAWING US UNTO HIM!!!

It still doesn't work, it's made quite clear that only a select group will be drawn to the point of being saved, and all others are not. If God is supposed to be all powerful, he would have the power to draw and save ALL, but he doesn't do it. That's not a very powerful God to me.

If any of us had kids, a child may fight us on something that we know is gonna be good for them and is what they need. Do we just leave them to their own devices? No we don't, but God does? Makes no sense.

God first draws....


Then Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

Notice....Faith comes by HEARING and HEARING by the WORD OF

GOD, NOT by the hearing of man's opinion !!!



There is POWER ONLY in THE WORD going forth and being

heard ... NOT in man's opinion of the Word going forth and

being heard( where there is NO WORD being preached, there will

also be NO POWER OF GOD MOVING, to produce good fruit either).





Redy.....They were never born again to begin with,

most likely because all they ever heard was man's opinion ONLY

being preached.....and not the True WORD being preached.


Not all christians who SAY they are christians , are

christians at all........again, because they have not yet

been BORN AGAIN.

Once truly BORN AGAIN, NO ONE can suddenly become UNBORN.

IMPOSSIBLE !!!

NOT if One is Truly BORN AGAIN.

SALVATION IS MADE AVAILABLE FOR ALLLLLLLLLL!!!


FOR ALL!!!

NOT SOME....BUT ALLL!!



WHEN GOD DRAWS, GOD WILL REJECT NO ONE WHO COMES TO HIM

AND CALLS UPON HIS NAME.




Don't know where you keep getting this misinterpretation


from, Kleisto, but it does NOT come from the Bible.

But if we CAN'T do it on our own according to you, than God is the one controlling who comes to Him, not us. Therefore, God makes the choice of whom he chooses to save, and whom he doesn't, because we can't make that choice.

THOSE WHO ARE SAVED ARE THE ONES WHO DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.....

WHEM WE ARE SAVED or BORN AGAIN, WE ARE NOW ABLE

TO DO THE WILL of THE FATHER...

SIMPLY BECAUSE GOD IS THE ONE WHO IS WORKING IN US AND THRU US.....

THUS, HE IS THE ONE WHO ENABLES US TO DO THE FATHER'S WILL..AND

IT IS NOT OF OUR OWN STRENGTH , THAT WE ARE ABLE TO DO

THIS.....BUT ON GOD'S STRENGTH!!


THE BORN AGAIN LIFE IS A YIELDED LIFE TO GOD WORKING IN US AND

THRU US.

ONCE MORE..IT IS GOD WORKING IN US AND THRU US...THUS,

ENABLING US TO DO THE WORKS OF GOD AND TO WALK IN

OBEDIENCE, IN THE FIRST PLACE.


THAT IS WHY THERE IS A REST FOUND IN JESUS !!!!

WE ARE NOT TO STRIVE ANYMORE...WE ARE TO SIMPLY

YIELD TO HIS WILL FOR OUR LIVES....AND REST IN HIM....AS WE

ALLOW HIM TO WORK IN US AND THRU US !!!


A YIELDED LIFE TO THE LORD'S WILL IN OUR LIVES, IS A LIFE

FULL OF LOVE, JOY , AND PEACE ...AND REST....FOUND ONLY IN THE

LORD JESUS CHRIST !!!


THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD ...

I SHALL NOT WANT !!!


AMEN !!!

God DRAWS......but God does NOT CHOOSE

WHOM He Will Save.

God DRAWS All.....but then leaves the CHOICE to Receive Him or

Reject Him, UP TO US.


But again, God ALSO CONVICTS our hearts, so that we are able to

understand our need for a Saviour.


God FIRST DRAWS us, because God KNOWS that NO man is able to

come to Salvation ON HIS OWN!!!


God helps us to come to Salvation by First DRAWING us.

(Part of the drawing process includes Convicting us ).


The Drawing usually is a Process....meaning...just because God

is drawing, doesn't mean everyone is gonna jump up and

IMMEDIATELY accept Christ,the very instant God first

starts Drawing....

sometimes the drawing process may take years, before a person

finally comes to accept Christ.


God DRAWS..and Wooos us...... but will NEVER FORCE us to come to

Him...that is Why when God draws us, He also allows us time

to come to the decision of accepting Him on our own.



One last time...God would have it that ALLLLLLLLL Men be

SAVED, and that NONE should Perish !!!

Amen!! God draws everyone, if God draws someone but that someone continues to turn away, it is their fault, not God's.

Amen!! One can not save himself and is why Jesus died on the cross for us all. He died so you would not have to, he had to do it because he knew we couldn't save ourselves.

Which is another problem with the religion, firstly any God that REQUIRES death of an innocent being in order to love others because of something they never even did, is evil on so many levels. I don't care how you wanna justify it, a being of love would not do it. Period.

Secondly, this idea that we can't save ourselves, that we can't do anything good without God, etc etc, is a total shaming tactic and guilt trip to get people to believe the lies of religion. This again is something love would not do, love would build up the person, encourage them, tell them they can do anything they put their mind to doing, NOT tear them down and tell them they can't do anything on their own.

If you would just take your religion colored glasses off for even a second you might see these things. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

These are basic concepts that just about anyone can understand. It's so very simple. But it requires you to suspend your beliefs before you can see it. If you can't do it, you won't.

What exactly are you talking about?

1. The crucifixion is not how one receives God's love. The crucifixion and resurrection was the completion of the old covenant. Jesus died for YOUR sins, so you would not have to. But again, this is not how one receives God's love or not. God loves everyone, from saints to total heathens.

2. You aren't receiving forgiveness for something you've never done. When one receives forgiveness, they are receiving forgiveness for sins THEY committed.

I can see that most of you don't see the forest for the trees.

The drawing of the Lord happens around the clock daily in all places.

If anyone has heard or read the story of a drowning man who was stranded in a sea of water...
not realizing the many provisions sent to him by God for his salvation...
a boat, a plank, a heliocopter, etc..

Ignoring the offerings, he died and finding himself standing before God,
asked why God didn't come and rescue him.


Many of you refuse to accept His salvation.

Gods gift must be received in faith with trust in Him on whom you place your expectations.

The salvation message is given around the world and men reject it.

They reject His drawing.

Jesus said,
" And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
will draw all men unto me. Johm 12:32

He died on the cross for your sin.

The story is told.

The visual is described and displayed around the world today.

This is the drawing. Yet men reject it.

"For the preaching of the cross

is to them that perish foolishness;

but unto us which are saved

it is the power of God."

1Cor 1:18



"For after that in the wisdom of God

the world by wisdom knew not God,

it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching

to save them that believe."

1Cor 1:21,

"For it is written,

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,

and will bring to nothing

the understanding of the prudent.


Where is the wise?

where is the scribe?

where is the disputer of this world?

hath not God made foolish

the wisdom of this world?"


I Cor 1:19, 20

Speaking of Women in the Bible...

What an awesome responsibility Mary carried.

"How Many Kings"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulY2KPmpMwk

First of all, Jesus's death on the cross according to your religion, is what gave any of us a chance to connect back to God at all. So thus in order to receive any love from God, this innocent being had to die. That alone is ridiculous by itself, but when you add to that, the entire reason we would ALL be doomed to death and separation from God if not for this, is because of what two people did BEFORE any of us existed at all, it becomes even moreso.

Now you not only have a totally innocent person needing to die in order to spare everyone else, but you also have an entire world carrying the burden of something they never even did. Which leads me into my other point....

The entire problem with what you say about forgiveness is simply the fact that there would be NO NEED for any of it to start with if there was no original sin. The only reason we sin at all is because they did, which means that before we are ever even born we are already sinners! How exactly is that even the least bit fair?

The basic fact is, you can try all you want to justify this absurd image of God and the acts it commits to make it good, but it will never work. Some things just cannot be justified, and the idea that we could be responsible for things people did long before we were alive, and that the ONLY way we could receive any forgiveness for it was for a totally innocent man to die on a cross, is one of them.