Maybe cause it wanted it that way? God is not gonna make a mistake. Things are the way they are (yes even the bad) cause it was wanted to be as such. If God didn't wish it, it wouldn't have created it the way it did. Everything and everyone is as it was supposed to be. To say otherwise is to say God didn't know what it was doing when it created the world, which would be silly to say of a being supposed to be perfect.

The whole thing with limitations though is, if God doesn't have them, why would it limit whom it loves or saves? If it has the power to save and love all, why would it not do it? If you had that power wouldn't you?

I dont know, IM not God, IM a mere human

I do know that we sometimes ask of people to help themself FIRST, or we are just making them dependent

I dont imagine that this would be unreasonable for a God to require either,, not just handing out salvation out of 'love', but asking that people SEEK it through faith and works,,,

But then you'd have a God that's supposedly loving everyone unconditionally, placing conditions on how to get it. That simply does not work, it's a total contradiction. It cannot work both ways, either God loves unconditionally, meaning no conditions on giving love no matter what happens, or it doesn't.

And you never really responded to the point I was trying to make either. IF one way was the ONLY path to God, such as Christians claim their way is, why WOULDN'T everyone see this truth in their near death experiences?

If you were God, and you wanted your people to know something of it, something that you knew they couldn't do without and their eternal soul rested on knowing it, would you not pull out all the stops to ensure that they did? What better place would there be but to tell them in the near death state of consciousness?

Fact is, everyone has a different experience when it comes to the afterlife, no one is the same as another depending on what they believe. That alone tells me that there cannot be just one path, because if there were all the experiences would be the same, and they aren't.

But then you'd have a God that's supposedly loving everyone unconditionally, placing conditions on how to get it. That simply does not work, it's a total contradiction. It cannot work both ways, either God loves unconditionally, meaning no conditions on giving love no matter what happens, or it doesn't.

But then you'd have a God that's supposedly loving everyone unconditionally, placing conditions on how to get it. That simply does not work, it's a total contradiction. It cannot work both ways, either God loves unconditionally, meaning no conditions on giving love no matter what happens, or it doesn't.

And you never really responded to the point I was trying to make either. IF one way was the ONLY path to God, such as Christians claim their way is, why WOULDN'T everyone see this truth in their near death experiences?

If you were God, and you wanted your people to know something of it, something that you knew they couldn't do without and their eternal soul rested on knowing it, would you not pull out all the stops to ensure that they did? What better place would there be but to tell them in the near death state of consciousness?

Fact is, everyone has a different experience when it comes to the afterlife, no one is the same as another depending on what they believe. That alone tells me that there cannot be just one path, because if there were all the experiences would be the same pointing that out, and they aren't and don't.

the point you made seems like false logic to me, which is why I Didnt respond

the assumption that everyone must have the same near death experience to prove there is only one path does not represent anything I posted, there being only one way is one extreme, all ways being the way is the other

I dont believe EITHER to be true, I Think there is one destination which is Gods, there are several roads , collectively, that can all lead there,, but all roads wont lead there anymore than only one road will,,,

IF all paths lead to God, we would already be in paradise and there would be no purpose to our mortality,,,,

Unless that purpose for being here is entirely different than you have been told. Like what if........evil existed not because we are bad, not because we fell from grace or anything of the sort, but because God wanted it to exist? What if it too had a purpose? What if everything and everyone did?

Earlier, we spoke of God's justice. I may create a thread on the subject eventually, but since we're going that way I will mention it here now. IF it all has a purpose, and God knowingly allows for evil to exist for said purpose, then it would NOT be just to punish a person for being that way, because in order for evil to exist there must with it exist the person or persons that are doing it. If there's no one to do it or no one who will, then it cannot be. Someone has to play the role.

Now obviously it doesn't mean we should strive to be evil or bad or anything like that at all, love of course is what should be aimed for. BUT, since it must exist as part of God's purpose, the people who do evil things have a reason for being and for doing them. As such, they in their own way are doing the will of God as much as someone who is trying to be good is, because again it ALL has a purpose and a place.

Henceforth, their path would eventually return them to God as much as any other path would because of that very fact.

Unless that purpose for being here is entirely different than you have been told. Like what if........evil existed not because we are bad, not because we fell from grace or anything of the sort, but because God wanted it to exist? What if it too had a purpose? What if everything and everyone did?

Earlier, we spoke of God's justice. I may create a thread on the subject eventually, but since we're going that way I will mention it here now. IF it all has a purpose, and God knowingly allows for evil to exist for said purpose, then it would NOT be just to punish a person for being that way, because in order for evil to exist there must with it exist the person or persons that are doing it. If there's no one to do it or no one who will, then it cannot be. Someone has to play the role.

Now obviously it doesn't mean we should strive to be evil or bad or anything like that at all, love of course is what should be aimed for. BUT, since it must exist as part of God's purpose, the people who do evil things have a reason for being and for doing them. As such, they in their own way are doing the will of God as much as someone who is trying to be good is, because again it ALL has a purpose and a place.

Henceforth, their path would eventually return them to God as much as any other path would because of that very fact.

Unless that purpose for being here is entirely different than you have been told. Like what if........evil existed not because we are bad, not because we fell from grace or anything of the sort, but because God wanted it to exist? What if it too had a purpose? What if everything and everyone did?

it is Gods will that we have a choice, not all choose God and those who dont , will not be 'forced' to have his salvation

God knowing it and God making it so are not necessarily the same thing

he knows some will choose him and some will not, I Believe

he wants all to choose him but does not force anyone to, I believe

when those who reject him are done with this mortal life, they arent FORCED to accept him anyway,,,,I believe,,,

God has a heaven, God created all, so whatever end that comes to us, is an end back with what God has created,,,whether it be heaven, or somewhere else

it is indeed back to God, his judgment, and its just a matter of whether its eternally with God or eternally seperated from him,,,

when those who reject him are done with this mortal life, they arent FORCED to accept him anyway,,,,I believe,,,

It does have a purpose. Without the "evil" or foul things happening in our lives, we wouldn't know that experience. We would become "spoiled" so to speak. We wouldn't be as grateful. If you have absolutely no bad times, you won't appreciate the good times, at least not as much, again you would think there could be better.

That's EXACTLY my point Cowboy, you don't think God knew this when it created us? We could not know good without evil, it'd be like the yin without the yang to balance it. You have to have both.

If God knew this, why are we punished for when it's something God knew we'd need and wanted? It makes no sense whatsoever.

we are not 'punished'

we are given the opportunity to accept God and his salvation to have eternal life

or to reject him and his salvation to be seperated from him eternally


we have a CHOICE,,,,

Yes true. We aren't "punished" on a daily basis. As in if someone steals something, they won't be "punished" for that act, they won't be put in time out so to speak lol. But things such as the pain of child birth is a punishment put on the female gender.

God only rewards us on Earth, not punishes. You can look at it though and say the not receiving a reward to be a punishment. But he doesn't specifically have something bad happen to you because you did something or didn't ect.

we are not 'punished'

we are given the opportunity to accept God and his salvation to have eternal life

or to reject him and his salvation to be seperated from him eternally


we have a CHOICE,,,,

Makes perfect sense. Being told something is totally different then experiencing it ourselves. If God would have made us to where we automatically just were obedient, we wouldn't be doing it out of love. We would just automatically act accordingly. We would be nothing more then puppets so to speak. That's not what God wants, God wants a relationship, he wants us to love him because we want to, not because we have to.

It's not a true choice if it's "do as I say or I will make sure you die", nor is it anywhere near love. It is spiritual terrorism.

And before anyone talks about choices and consequences, it's one thing to warn someone of possible danger if they do one thing over another. It's another thing when you are controlling that possible danger, which is what the Biblical God does. They are not the same at all.

No it doesn't, cause your God STILL forces us to make a certain choice if we want to live, there is no free will in a forced choice like that even if we appear to have some form of one. No amount of trying to argue it will make it true.

no, he doesnt. You have a life and I have a life, whatever our choice,, but our choices in that LIFE may give us the added GIFT of eternal life,,,

Religion really has raised Havoc with the Human Mind!

The birthing process and how we have changed that for the worse, is a topic all its' own lol. But I won't get into that here.