Locked into it, I see.

Thank you for the dialogue.

I dont agree. I think they just don't think the government and tax payer should be responsible for them. Supplementing income is one thing, but providing them enough to live off of without a job is going too far.

What about this idea? Say you remove the illegals from society and at the same time required a job to get welfare. Would we be able to fit Americans into those jobs? This at least would be a decent thing to look into number wise.

And you are looking at this wrong. We are not taking anything from the poor in that sense. If every week my parents gave me an allowance and then they stopped they are not taking my money away. There are just not giving me anymore. The money or services the government gives the poor is not theirs. It is the tax payers. They should not have a sense of ownership on it but a sense of gratitude for those that provide it.

Cause they are too weak to refuse....?

I totally agree with you on this Creative. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing. The shame of it is that this is actually the plan and has happened in many other countries where Globalization, Capitalization has been installed.

Once the middle class is reduced or eliminated, the poor will be at the mercy of the wealthy corporations and they will work for cheaper wages and the corporations will make more profit. The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer. It is a Master-slave plan in the works for the entire world.

If you study what has happened in certain third world countries you will find that the people who appose this plan are assassinated, murdered etc. Even in this country, people who appose and expose this plan for what it is .... tend to mysteriously die very young.

I could care less about the "poor" people and I am not a republican or tea party affiliate. First let us look at the numbers themselves. How many of these so called poor are Illegal Immigrants? Next having been one of the poor and worked among them and lived among them, their mentality is what makes them poor. While some really do put the effort up to make something of themselves I see quite a few FAT ONES WHO CLAIM THEY CAN'T WORK! Sell the lies somewhere else! Many "Poor" people put more effort into getting welfare then they do seeking any gainful employment. Also, if a poor person is fat, obese, choose you pet term, they sure are not missing any meals.

How about this term, "WORKING POOR!" THOSE ARE THE ONLY POOR PEOPLE I HAVE ANY SYMPATHY FOR!

Want to cut down on the poor? First lets us get rid of all these GOD DAMN ILLEGAL ALIENS HERE! They are people? What about our own people? Suddenly they don't count? Steal from OUR OWN WORKING POOR TO GIVE TO WORTHLESS POOR AND UNDESERVING? How about drug testing as a requirement to get any Government help? Want help? Get off of the shitte!

Next, how many poor are drug addicts or alcoholics with no desire for redemption? I would say about 3/4s of the poor are substance abusers in one way shape or form. And until you have lived among their world you would not understand the twisted logic of a drug addict! They whine, they play on sympathy, they play on God, and all they want is their next fix no matter what it takes including sucking cock to get it!

We need to focus on saving the middle class and let the waste of society either starve or get off their azzes and clean up and get jobs or come up with something positive to make money rather than bleed off of the rest of us! I am so done with the litany of excuses they come up with to validate their existence as they want to exist!

This whole Idea Government is here to save us from ourselves is pure and utter poppycock!

The real shame here is that people buy into this Bull! Work among the poor and then tell me how wonderful they are! A few are people who want to make something of their lives and those few deserve to be helped, the rest feel the world owes them a living just becasue they exist!

So again trying to pin all the woes of this nation on the GOP and the Tea Party is fallacious and also does not allow us to focus on the real problem, our whole freaking system. The Dems, the Republicans, and our own people themselves!

I SO FREAKING AGREE WITH YOU! MY GOD YOUR WISDOM SPEAKS VOLUMES!

The poor are not grateful, just wanton and demanding like spoiled children!

July 12

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 21% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Thirty-eight percent (38%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -17


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

just an update

Good point on a contradiction. I asked in Civics class once who the government was and was told, "We the people".

Wow! A Lot has happened on this thread since I logged off last night. Let's see. First, I need to respond to Andrew:

Oops! I skipped right past your post. It would be rude not to respond to you. {quote]You likewise toss your share of insults and insinuation.You bet I do! (Did you think I would have a problem saying that?) I have been the recipient of more personal insults from the likes of you than any other poster on this message board since my first post. You really don't expect to get some of it back? Who, really, do you think you are that your can throw out the crap and not get some of it thrown back at you? One thing I can say is that i have never gone crying to mommy and daddy administrator about it.



Well, yes. Do you really expect to win an argument with ideas that you have made up out of your own imagination with no credible corroberation? I tend to like fact-based arguments. I guess that's just me. Personally, I am not so arrogant as to think that my creative constructions are powerful enough to create a new reality. I expect to be asked to prove my assertions. This is apparently anathema to the Conservatives on this board. I will say that InvictusV and Chazter are the only people here that offer credible corroberation for their assertions. They are always wrong, but I give them credit for building a proper case. I am not much impressed with their personal invective.

Oh, and this caught my eye.



Democrats are furious with Obama because he has not inflamed things nearly enough. Your guys are destroying our country. We think it's way past time for our President to stand up and fight for people like us. We don't care how much you hate him. We are praying for him to take actions that will make you hate him even more. We are not here to make nice. We are here to help somebody to save our country

Yes, we are in a depression, and your guys caused it and are fighting to make it even worst. Your Gods in congress have told us this. Their only goal is to ensure that Obama is a one-term President and to "starve the beast" and they are willing to destroy America in order to accomplish that. It's so crystal clear. The whole world sees it. Why can't you?

OOOO! Now, I think we're getting into personal threats. Not just insults. You're a scary guy, Donald.

{quote]Your the only one who said anything derogatory about African American's in this thread. Which you still haven't responded to by the way.

Remind me. It must have been a really forgettable exchange. What did I say that was derogatory to African-Americans. What is that I am supposed to be responding to?

You bet I do! (Did you think I would have a problem saying that?) I have been the recipient of more personal insults from the likes of you than any other poster on this message board since my first post. You really don't expect to get some of it back? Who, really, do you think you are that your can throw out the crap and not get some of it thrown back at you? One thing I can say is that i have never gone crying to mommy and daddy administrator about it.



Well, yes. Do you really expect to win an argument with ideas that you have made up out of your own imagination with no credible corroberation? I tend to like fact-based arguments. I guess that's just me. Personally, I am not so arrogant as to think that my creative constructions are powerful enough to create a new reality. I expect to be asked to prove my assertions. This is apparently anathema to the Conservatives on this board. I will say that InvictusV and Chazter are the only people here that offer credible corroberation for their assertions. They are always wrong, but I give them credit for building a proper case. I am not much impressed with their personal invective.

Oh, and this caught my eye.



Democrats are furious with Obama because he has not inflamed things nearly enough. Your guys are destroying our country. We think it's way past time for our President to stand up and fight for people like us. We don't care how much you hate him. We are praying for him to take actions that will make you hate him even more. We are not here to make nice. We are here to help somebody to save our country

Yes, we are in a depression, and your guys caused it and are fighting to make it even worst. Your Gods in congress have told us this. Their only goal is to ensure that Obama is a one-term President and to "starve the beast" and they are willing to destroy America in order to accomplish that. It's so crystal clear. The whole world sees it. Why can't you?



So now you are back to baiting me? I ask you to stop calling me Andrew and I also DEMANDED you stop calling me that but here you are again pressing right on the button. I show you proof and you just resort to the 5 year old act and now you are elevating yourself to a 12 year old style of argument. Real mature! And MY GUYS CAUSED IT? What a load of steaming feces! How many people have you pissed off over the years like this? Bet you don't got the grapes to call me Andrew to my face!

Get your glasses checked and you might need some refresher time in school. Your grasp of English is either slipping or you just see things the way YOU want to.

It is YOUR social spending idealism that made this situation worst. it is YOU ideals that we need to give handouts to everyone.

Do you really love running through forests blindly to see how many trees you can run into face first?

Now Donald and I may not see eye to eye but at least he presents credible arguments while you provide...

Wait for it...

NOTING BUT INFLAMMATORY COMMENTARY!

ARTLO



Little Mister, you need a time out!

The two party system really makes it challenging to try to present a uniform representation of a candidates platform based on the party.

Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are good examples of this, both are socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

Want to do away with big business subsidies, do away with corporatism at the highest level. They want to audit the federal reserve who panders to wall street.

They want to level the playing field, and the big interests groups are scared to death of them, and call them names like loony, crazy, out of touch, but the reality is they are more in touch than anyone else in the republican party.

I grew up as poor as anyone in this country, THAT I can guarantee. I worked from the time I was 12 years old for 2 dollars an hour to pay for my 2 years of community college. I earned nothing, it all went to my college fund. I hunted squirrel for soup, I trapped rabbit, I helped in the garden and I went to school.

We never accepted government help, becuase we were too proud. Where I was raised if you asked for help you where seen as without honor, without the will to survive. I understand if disabled people cant work, I understand if you where laid off and need to make ends meet, and I agree with unemployment strategies.

When I was laid off from my job after getting into a car accident, my back was broken for a second time, I lost my job and needed help. My dad is well off now a days, but could care less about my mom or myself, and so I needed unemployment until I found another job 3 months later. I work hard, I have never slacked off, I am fiscally conservative, and I am pro unemployment.

Confused . . . you shouldn't be, you should understand that unemployment is not the problem with this country. The problem is the billions in subsidies for businesses that are already making money hand over fist, NOT the little guys trying to make ends meet becuase they ran into hard times. The problem is that we have spent trillions on needless war to prop up the subsided military welfare. We need to stop making excuses and fix the root causes of expensive health care, and the least of the problems is the insurance, the greatest of the problems is why do the same tests, same procedures, and same exams in American cost up to twice what they do in other countries.

You're so cute when you're angry, Andrew.

You're so cute when you're angry, Andrew.

After reviewing this thread we have come to the conclusion that the only solution is to lock this thread up.

Please make sure that at all times your responses are directed towards the subject and not other members.

Also let me remind all that high jacking a thread is against the forum rules as well. Please if you have the need to go off Topic take the time to create a new thread and take the converation to that thread.


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Kristi