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| Topic: Sticks and Stones | |
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Hanging out with people who have the same beliefs is nice. I don't think that just because the arts and crafts activity was held in a church or sponsored by the church, that sermons were to be expected or necessary. I still think it is a bait and switch the way it was described. Because you object so much, I get the feeling you approve of the whole bait and switch thing msharmony. I get the feeling that you think that everything "church sponsored" or at a church should include sermons and dogma being preached. Having a discussion about God with fellow Christians is a lot different than being held hostage in a group and preached at. The way she described what happened, that is the way it went. It was not a simple discussion about God. It was a sermon. I say yuck yuck yuck..... its a desperate revival attempt by the church. That's why I avoid churches and why I am suspicious of "nice church people" who are "too nice." Beware of smiling faces they say. I believe that it is reasonable to expect a church sponsored event to 'advertise' church values, the same way I would expect a pepsi sponsored event to 'advertise' and even sell their products at the event,,,yes I still dont call that bait and switch AS LONG AS the patron gets what is advertised along with the rest of it,, eeew then I guess all I can say is buyer beware... But in this particular case, apparently that is not what happened. "instead we had a hat maker preach at the girls...a quiltmaker who condemned the young women, how they dress, behave, and the evils facing them...and what Jesus wants them to do! For two hours!...Fire, Brimstone, Admonishment, Degradation, Shaming. What would you call it then, if not bait and switch? IF , as I said , there were no arts and crafts, and just preaching,, than there was definitely a 'switch' involved IF, instead, there were arts and crafts ACCOMPANIED by preaching, than no SWITCH was involved |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 04/13/11 06:26 PM
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Let me ask you this. If I sponsored a free art class for children at my house, or even at some public community center, and I gave them a sermon about the occult, how do you think people would respond?
They would object, of course.. you can be sure of that. They would object because of the fact that I did not describe the art class as also including a lecture about the occult. Just because the arts and crafts class was held in a Church does not mean that a sermon should be expected. I go to what this church in our town calls a "ground hog supper" in which the church earns money selling biscuits and gravy to the public. I do not expect a sermon if I go there to get a meal, and if I did discover such a thing I would walk out. At an arts and craft class... a discussion about God among members is totally expected and appropriate. A fire and brimstone sermon is not. Yet you are defending this sort of thing. I'm thinking how could anyone enjoy a craft class during a sermon? Anyway, that's how I feel. |
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Let me ask you this. If I sponsored a free art class for children at my house, or even at some public community center, and I gave them a sermon about the occult, how do you think people would respond? They would object, of course.. you can be sure of that. They would object because of the fact that I did not describe the art class as also including a lecture about the occult. Just because the arts and crafts class was held in a Church does not mean that a sermon should be expected. I go to what this church in our town calls a "ground hog supper" in which the church earns money selling biscuits and gravy to the public. I do not expect a sermon if I go there to get a meal, and if I did discover such a thing I would walk out. At an arts and craft class... a discussion about God among members is totally expected and appropriate. A fire and brimstone sermon is not. Yet you are defending this sort of thing. I'm thinking how could anyone enjoy a craft class during a sermon? Anyway, that's how I feel. I understand. I feel differently. I dont believe there is one right way to 'feel',.,,, in your case, I would probably want to know more about you before I sent my kids to your home(no offense, Im like that with anyone I dont really know) and if I knew you practiced such things I would ask before hand that my child not be exposed likewise, I could imagine that many who do know you would send their kids because they might WANT them to be exposed to something different and they might be disappointed to find that they werent,,,similar to how people who attend church and send their kids to a church sponsored function might feel disappointed if there was not a church 'environment' for the children when they got there bottom line is you can never please EVERYONE, but I just tend to err on the side of people being themself unless ASKED to do otherwise |
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Edited by
Jess642
on
Wed 04/13/11 07:35 PM
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The girls did NOT do any art or craft....the hat maker showed her work, did not explain how it was done...told us the prices if we wished to purchase....and then went rambling on about how Jesus has given her so much prosperity, her life is so wonderful with jesus...
the quiltmaker didn't even have a quilt to be seen....she just took her little podium place, and berated the lack of godliness in young people today....everything negative about young people is their evil ways...and lack of religious zeal. I didn't walk out....I stood up....and challenged her, and her cohorts, I spoke the obvious...they were devious, agenda based, self righteous arrogant women, and that if jesus wasn't a mythology....he would turn his back on them. Other mother's grabbed as many kids as they could place in their cars....and left... I waited with the girls who were stuck there. again....don't preach AT anyone... answer their questions....if you can. I cannot say it was an uplifting experience...as it wasn't. I am apalled that MsHarmony would rather take a contrary stance than see it for what it was....coersion and deception....and if pepsi did that.....the law suits would be huge! |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 04/13/11 07:39 PM
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Well, for your information, If I advertised an art class, that is all it would be. I would not then give a lecture on the occult. I think that would be dishonest.
Jess642, Thanks for clearing that up about the class. I'm proud of you for standing up and speaking up. More people should speak up when things like that happen |
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I am apalled that MsHarmony would rather take a contrary stance than see it for what it was....coersion and deception....and if pepsi did that.....the law suits would be huge! This is one thing about Christianity and why Christians are often called sheep and tend to flock together. If they see someone who claims to be associated with Christianity they automatically stand up for them. They don't care what the Christians were doing if they did it in the name of Christianity it must be defended! Within reason of course.  But seriously, this is a big part of what keeps things like this going. People who do underhanded things in the name of Christianity will easily find lots of support from the large flock of Christian sheep. Look at me! I was born and raised as a Christian. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and was "born again in Christ". But now that I've recognized that the religion is false, the Christians basically hate my guts. It's entirely about supporting the religion. Nothing much else matters. |
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I am apalled that MsHarmony would rather take a contrary stance than see it for what it was....coersion and deception....and if pepsi did that.....the law suits would be huge! This is one thing about Christianity and why Christians are often called sheep and tend to flock together. If they see someone who claims to be associated with Christianity they automatically stand up for them. They don't care what the Christians were doing if they did it in the name of Christianity it must be defended! Within reason of course. But seriously, this is a big part of what keeps things like this going. People who do underhanded things in the name of Christianity will easily find lots of support from the large flock of Christian sheep. Look at me! I was born and raised as a Christian. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and was "born again in Christ". But now that I've recognized that the religion is false, the Christians basically hate my guts. It's entirely about supporting the religion. Nothing much else matters. Christianity is about loving and praising God through Jesus Christ. A Christian does not hate anyone even in lines of your example. If a Christian hates someone, in all reality they aren't "Christ"ian. Christian's root is Christ. Christ has told us not to hate but to love one another regardless of anything. Has even told us to love our "enemies". So again someone could NEVER be a "Christ"ian if they proclaim to hate someone and or even act as if they do. |
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Cowboy wrote: Christianity is about loving and praising God through Jesus Christ. A Christian does not hate anyone even in lines of your example. If a Christian hates someone, in all reality they aren't "Christ"ian. Christian's root is Christ. Christ has told us not to hate but to love one another regardless of anything. Has even told us to love our "enemies". So again someone could NEVER be a "Christ"ian if they proclaim to hate someone and or even act as if they do. Well Gandhi is probably right. Most Christians are quite unlike Jesus. I don't doubt that at all. Anyone who implies that someone else is "rejecting God" after that person has stated clearly that they believe in God and do indeed worship God in their own way, is indeed doing something quite hateful Cowboy. If you told someone that you love God, and they called you a liar, wouldn't you feel that they are being hateful toward you? They are certainly spitting in your face and calling you a liar. That's a pretty hateful thing to do I think. Yet this is what "Christians" do to people continually. In the event that Jess just described, did anyone even bother to ASK those children if they already believed in God in their own way? If that question wasn't asked and the answers of the children RESPECTED, then those so-called "Christians" were indeed doing something extremely hateful! They were totally disrespecting the children and ASSUMING things about the children that they cannot possibly even know. In fact, DO YOU, ever ask anyone if they believe in God? And if they say yes, do you continue with your Christian proselytizing? Or do you respect their reply? If you refuse to give them respect for their beliefs and views then you are being hateful toward them. Especially if you're going to constantly badger them with YOUR BELIEFS like as if they must accept your views, whilst you have totally spit in their face concerning their views. That's hate buddy. Pure and simple hate. |
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Cowboy wrote: Christianity is about loving and praising God through Jesus Christ. A Christian does not hate anyone even in lines of your example. If a Christian hates someone, in all reality they aren't "Christ"ian. Christian's root is Christ. Christ has told us not to hate but to love one another regardless of anything. Has even told us to love our "enemies". So again someone could NEVER be a "Christ"ian if they proclaim to hate someone and or even act as if they do. Well Gandhi is probably right. Most Christians are quite unlike Jesus. I don't doubt that at all. Anyone who implies that someone else is "rejecting God" after that person has stated clearly that they believe in God and do indeed worship God in their own way, is indeed doing something quite hateful Cowboy. If you told someone that you love God, and they called you a liar, wouldn't you feel that they are being hateful toward you? They are certainly spitting in your face and calling you a liar. That's a pretty hateful thing to do I think. Yet this is what "Christians" do to people continually. In the event that Jess just described, did anyone even bother to ASK those children if they already believed in God in their own way? If that question wasn't asked and the answers of the children RESPECTED, then those so-called "Christians" were indeed doing something extremely hateful! They were totally disrespecting the children and ASSUMING things about the children that they cannot possibly even know. In fact, DO YOU, ever ask anyone if they believe in God? And if they say yes, do you continue with your Christian proselytizing? Or do you respect their reply? If you refuse to give them respect for their beliefs and views then you are being hateful toward them. Especially if you're going to constantly badger them with YOUR BELIEFS like as if they must accept your views, whilst you have totally spit in their face concerning their views. That's hate buddy. Pure and simple hate. If you told someone that you love God, and they called you a liar, wouldn't you feel that they are being hateful toward you? They are certainly spitting in your face and calling you a liar. That's a pretty hateful thing to do I think. No I wouldn't feel they are being "hateful" toward me. They would be foolish, they would be childish, but they would not be "hateful". It would only turn to being hateful if they didn't associate with me just because of that or if they treated me in a less respectful of a way just because of that. And if you've had Christians do this to you in the past, I sincerely apologize on their behalf. For Jesus has NEVER told us to be this way. We are to treat EVERYONE with love and care regardless if they believe or not believe. What these people have done actually goes quite against what Jesus has told us to do. Jesus has told us to witness to the world. Someone treating another differently and or in a foul way just because they don't believe is making a bad witness for again Jesus did NOT tell us to be this way. |
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Cowboy wrote: Christianity is about loving and praising God through Jesus Christ. A Christian does not hate anyone even in lines of your example. If a Christian hates someone, in all reality they aren't "Christ"ian. Christian's root is Christ. Christ has told us not to hate but to love one another regardless of anything. Has even told us to love our "enemies". So again someone could NEVER be a "Christ"ian if they proclaim to hate someone and or even act as if they do. Well Gandhi is probably right. Most Christians are quite unlike Jesus. I don't doubt that at all. Anyone who implies that someone else is "rejecting God" after that person has stated clearly that they believe in God and do indeed worship God in their own way, is indeed doing something quite hateful Cowboy. If you told someone that you love God, and they called you a liar, wouldn't you feel that they are being hateful toward you? They are certainly spitting in your face and calling you a liar. That's a pretty hateful thing to do I think. Yet this is what "Christians" do to people continually. In the event that Jess just described, did anyone even bother to ASK those children if they already believed in God in their own way? If that question wasn't asked and the answers of the children RESPECTED, then those so-called "Christians" were indeed doing something extremely hateful! They were totally disrespecting the children and ASSUMING things about the children that they cannot possibly even know. In fact, DO YOU, ever ask anyone if they believe in God? And if they say yes, do you continue with your Christian proselytizing? Or do you respect their reply? If you refuse to give them respect for their beliefs and views then you are being hateful toward them. Especially if you're going to constantly badger them with YOUR BELIEFS like as if they must accept your views, whilst you have totally spit in their face concerning their views. That's hate buddy. Pure and simple hate. If you told someone that you love God, and they called you a liar, wouldn't you feel that they are being hateful toward you? They are certainly spitting in your face and calling you a liar. That's a pretty hateful thing to do I think. No I wouldn't feel they are being "hateful" toward me. They would be foolish, they would be childish, but they would not be "hateful". It would only turn to being hateful if they didn't associate with me just because of that or if they treated me in a less respectful of a way just because of that. And if you've had Christians do this to you in the past, I sincerely apologize on their behalf. For Jesus has NEVER told us to be this way. We are to treat EVERYONE with love and care regardless if they believe or not believe. What these people have done actually goes quite against what Jesus has told us to do. Jesus has told us to witness to the world. Someone treating another differently and or in a foul way just because they don't believe is making a bad witness for again Jesus did NOT tell us to be this way. What I see being said about deception is.. That if someone claims to be chr-stian then those who call themselves chr-stian will go to bat against anyone who tries to show that they do not act like it. even when it is quite obvious. I agree they will do this as I have seen on here. and if you go to another type religion.. then the people in charge will give sermons on people who have entered what he may deem a cult and why chr-stians need to stay away from them They do not come out and say the persons name.. they do it in a way that people will get to thinking do I know anyone like this and of course they do. Thats leading a flock with deceptive practices that the flock thinks in biblical. they got thier point across like telling little jonny that thiers a boogie man in the back yard. He starts to believe thier really is when thier never was. I have seen this.. I have had friends tell me to go to thier ch-rch that thier minister will listen and answer me. They never wanted to answer me they made sure they believed I was a Sheep in wolves clothing when all I did was ask a leginamate question. Why do we go to chu-rch on sunday when Yahshua went on Saturday the 7th day of the week? They hate this question. They also know the real name of the scriptures they use is Yahweh. Do you know how many sermons are preached all the time about people they deem the Holy Name Movement cult? All the time. thats deception brought on to people who are taught never question the Minister.. Your real authority.. Not Yahshua.. thats what they claim but try and do as Yahshua did. and see what happens> Thiers a great book by Charles Shelton that is based on a true story in the late 1800's.. it is so good. they messed up the patton so no group or person has made a dime off this book and you know what? "in his steps" read it.. Its the 2nd all time seller in all of time. Know what the # 1 best seller is? Blessings..Miles |
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I could expect notice if DANGEROUS asian food was being served why...it's the culture I would expect in a church that god would be discussed, I might expect notice if DANGEROUS activities like blood sacrifice were going to occur, however you mean like the church should give notice that they have a child molesting priest Im speaking what is a reasonable expectation verse what is a restrictive expectation wow...are you a lawyer I expect people to be themself, within reason, the only RESTRICTION being anything that may bring physical harm upon someone else,,,, wouldn't you agree that a parent being deceived could cause harm If you are having dinnner and invite my kids and part of your customary ritual is to eat on a sheet on the floor, this would not outrage me I'm not sure they let you sit on the floor at McDonalds if part of your customary ritual is to play russian roulette while eating on the floor, this could be reason for me to feel outrage perhaps the kids may be more dangerous than the russian roulettee...some people have kids that can be described as being "children of the corn" reasonable expectation is the issue ,,, right...the parents should have a resonable expectations to send their kids to the event that were advertised in the ENVIRONMENT in which it was advertised as well,,,especially if there were no bars or locks keeping the teens in,,,,,or preventing them from leaving,,, wow...ok...it's ok to deceive children if locks are not on the door...some of those children probably got dropped off by their parents and didn't have a ride home and was stuck there ...but hey...as long as bars are not on the doors it's ok what if some of the kids did decide to leave because they felt deceived and something happened to them....I guess they deserved it...no one told them to leave there is nothing deceptive about talking about God in a church, it is a REASONABLE expectation, the only way it could be unreasonable in my opinion is if there were locks preventing people who didnt like what they were hearing from leaving we are talking about middle school age here, they manage to walk home and take buses just fine during school hours,, they are more creative than they are given credit for,,,,they can EVEN sit outside until their ride is scheduled to come and congregate with EACH OTHER,,,,,, oh so now you have deem that it's ok to decieve middle age children...also Jess stated that she lives in a small town ...which means buses probably do not run every 15 minutes like in a big city or they may not even have buses..perhaps that was part of their plan.... but heck it's ok if those little heathens have to walk 10 miles or more home ...it's good excerise for those that may be disable, but then again no one force them to leave the church and they weren't locked in there that's the same trick they do to get you into the department store...it's called the "Bait and Switch" ...advertise one thing as a sale and when they get there tell them you are out of that product and sell them something else that cost more ...it's considered to be fraud but according to you it's ok if the church does it... i dont think there was any 'switch' involved, they werent 'out of a product' and indeed had arts and crafts as advertised (if I am understanding correctly) if there were indeed no arts and crafts as advertised, I understand the reaction I thought the objection was to there being a sermon in ADDITION to the arts and crafts,, the "Bait and Switch" is designed to get people into a place and delivered unto them something that wasn't advertised, perhaps someone in the church pushed to deliver a fire and brimestone sermon so that they could place fright into those girls giving them the opportunity to console the frighten ones and get to hold them in order to get some form of sexual pleasure from it.....before you make excuses why it couldn't happen try to remember those church sex scandals when the church tried to hide the fact that it was happenning this is why no one should take liberties with other people children that they parents were not informed of .....just because it's a church do not mean they have the right to sprinkle holy water on everyone that walks through the door |
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.....just because it's a church do not mean they have the right to sprinkle holy water on everyone that walks through the door Um, really? Why not? This is kind of the whole point of the church's existence.... You go to a baseball game, you expect to see the team's paraphernalia don't you? |
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.....just because it's a church do not mean they have the right to sprinkle holy water on everyone that walks through the door Um, really? Why not? This is kind of the whole point of the church's existence.... You go to a baseball game, you expect to see the team's paraphernalia don't you? well "mylifetoday"...they generally do not hold quilt making events for middle age girls at baseball stadiums...but for the sake of arguement let's say that they do.... must the girls that come to such an event for quilt making first be subjected and expected to also watch a baseball game simply because they are in a baseball stadium also while the girls are there is it ok for one of the batters to accidently hit one of the girls in the head with a baseball since that also happens at baseball stadiums but let's stick to the church....here's a question for you if someone walks into a church and see people exchanging money is it ok for them to have a conniption fit and turn over pews.... if not... then why was it ok for Jesus to do it |
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Cowboy wrote: Christianity is about loving and praising God through Jesus Christ. A Christian does not hate anyone even in lines of your example. If a Christian hates someone, in all reality they aren't "Christ"ian. Christian's root is Christ. Christ has told us not to hate but to love one another regardless of anything. Has even told us to love our "enemies". So again someone could NEVER be a "Christ"ian if they proclaim to hate someone and or even act as if they do. Well Gandhi is probably right. Most Christians are quite unlike Jesus. I don't doubt that at all. Anyone who implies that someone else is "rejecting God" after that person has stated clearly that they believe in God and do indeed worship God in their own way, is indeed doing something quite hateful Cowboy. If you told someone that you love God, and they called you a liar, wouldn't you feel that they are being hateful toward you? They are certainly spitting in your face and calling you a liar. That's a pretty hateful thing to do I think. Yet this is what "Christians" do to people continually. In the event that Jess just described, did anyone even bother to ASK those children if they already believed in God in their own way? If that question wasn't asked and the answers of the children RESPECTED, then those so-called "Christians" were indeed doing something extremely hateful! They were totally disrespecting the children and ASSUMING things about the children that they cannot possibly even know. In fact, DO YOU, ever ask anyone if they believe in God? And if they say yes, do you continue with your Christian proselytizing? Or do you respect their reply? If you refuse to give them respect for their beliefs and views then you are being hateful toward them. Especially if you're going to constantly badger them with YOUR BELIEFS like as if they must accept your views, whilst you have totally spit in their face concerning their views. That's hate buddy. Pure and simple hate. If you told someone that you love God, and they called you a liar, wouldn't you feel that they are being hateful toward you? They are certainly spitting in your face and calling you a liar. That's a pretty hateful thing to do I think. No I wouldn't feel they are being "hateful" toward me. They would be foolish, they would be childish, but they would not be "hateful". It would only turn to being hateful if they didn't associate with me just because of that or if they treated me in a less respectful of a way just because of that. And if you've had Christians do this to you in the past, I sincerely apologize on their behalf. For Jesus has NEVER told us to be this way. We are to treat EVERYONE with love and care regardless if they believe or not believe. What these people have done actually goes quite against what Jesus has told us to do. Jesus has told us to witness to the world. Someone treating another differently and or in a foul way just because they don't believe is making a bad witness for again Jesus did NOT tell us to be this way. What I see being said about deception is.. That if someone claims to be chr-stian then those who call themselves chr-stian will go to bat against anyone who tries to show that they do not act like it. even when it is quite obvious. I agree they will do this as I have seen on here. and if you go to another type religion.. then the people in charge will give sermons on people who have entered what he may deem a cult and why chr-stians need to stay away from them They do not come out and say the persons name.. they do it in a way that people will get to thinking do I know anyone like this and of course they do. Thats leading a flock with deceptive practices that the flock thinks in biblical. they got thier point across like telling little jonny that thiers a boogie man in the back yard. He starts to believe thier really is when thier never was. I have seen this.. I have had friends tell me to go to thier ch-rch that thier minister will listen and answer me. They never wanted to answer me they made sure they believed I was a Sheep in wolves clothing when all I did was ask a leginamate question. Why do we go to chu-rch on sunday when Yahshua went on Saturday the 7th day of the week? They hate this question. They also know the real name of the scriptures they use is Yahweh. Do you know how many sermons are preached all the time about people they deem the Holy Name Movement cult? All the time. thats deception brought on to people who are taught never question the Minister.. Your real authority.. Not Yahshua.. thats what they claim but try and do as Yahshua did. and see what happens> Thiers a great book by Charles Shelton that is based on a true story in the late 1800's.. it is so good. they messed up the patton so no group or person has made a dime off this book and you know what? "in his steps" read it.. Its the 2nd all time seller in all of time. Know what the # 1 best seller is? Blessings..Miles Why do we go to chu-rch on sunday when Yahshua went on Saturday the 7th day of the week? Very good question. What day one celebrates as the Sabath doesn't matter a WHOLE lot though. God made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th, blessing it. And instructed us to do the same. We weren't instructed to celebrate, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, or any other particular day as the Sabath. We are to again, work six and rest on the seventh setting a day aside to praise and worship God. "Technically" Saturday is the 7th day of the week yes. But culture wise Sunday is. For instance, kids go to school Mon - Fri and Sat and Sun are the weekEND. So with that, Sunday would be the last day of the week. Personally I don't feel it really matters a whole lot. One could celebrate their Sabath on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or any other day for that matter. BUT, celebrating the Sabath on a usual day makes it much easier to be able to congregate with others. And is where celebrating it on Saturday or Sunday came into play. But again, highly doubt it matters a major amount. Just as long as we keep atleast ONE day to give totally to the lord and not worry about our own selves eg., no purches, ect. Just a day of worship. |
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.....just because it's a church do not mean they have the right to sprinkle holy water on everyone that walks through the door Um, really? Why not? This is kind of the whole point of the church's existence.... You go to a baseball game, you expect to see the team's paraphernalia don't you? well "mylifetoday"...they generally do not hold quilt making events for middle age girls at baseball stadiums...but for the sake of arguement let's say that they do.... must the girls that come to such an event for quilt making first be subjected and expected to also watch a baseball game simply because they are in a baseball stadium also while the girls are there is it ok for one of the batters to accidently hit one of the girls in the head with a baseball since that also happens at baseball stadiums but let's stick to the church....here's a question for you if someone walks into a church and see people exchanging money is it ok for them to have a conniption fit and turn over pews.... if not... then why was it ok for Jesus to do it if someone walks into a church and see people exchanging money is it ok for them to have a conniption fit and turn over pews.... if not... then why was it ok for Jesus to do it It would be ok, it would be right for the person to confront the person(s) exchanging money. But they wouldn't have the right to turn over pews and what not. The church is the house of the Lord. It is his house, he can do as he wishes. In your house, can you not turn over what you wish? So, why is it not ok for someone else to turn over what they wish in your house? |
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It would be ok, it would be right for the person to confront the person(s) exchanging money. But they wouldn't have the right to turn over pews and what not. The church is the house of the Lord. It is his house, he can do as he wishes. In your house, can you not turn over what you wish? So, why is it not ok for someone else to turn over what they wish in your house? no Cowboy it was not Jesus's house...didn't Jesus said that it was his Father's house? if so...then that would mean that Jesus had a right to have a conniption fit but didn't have a right to destroy anything in his Father's house Jesus in this instance was acting like an unruly child ....and you are making excuses for his bad behavior |
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It would be ok, it would be right for the person to confront the person(s) exchanging money. But they wouldn't have the right to turn over pews and what not. The church is the house of the Lord. It is his house, he can do as he wishes. In your house, can you not turn over what you wish? So, why is it not ok for someone else to turn over what they wish in your house? no Cowboy it was not Jesus's house...didn't Jesus said that it was his Father's house? if so...then that would mean that Jesus had a right to have a conniption fit but didn't have a right to destroy anything in his Father's house Jesus in this instance was acting like an unruly child ....and you are making excuses for his bad behavior Jesus' father's house is his house. You're thinking with a secular mind set. You're thinking with the essence of how it is in this world, you have your house, you have kids, they move out. But no that's not how it is. God's house is Jesus' house. It is a place made specifically for worshiping God and Jesus. Jesus and God are one. In the beginning there was God the father and the word. The word was made flesh eg., Jesus. So again, God's house is Jesus' house. |
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Well people always think of God as their "father."
Therefore, a church is everybody's fathers house. |
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Well people always think of God as their "father." Therefore, a church is everybody's fathers house. Yeah good point, if that person is born again. That is where the term "born again" derives from. You are born once from your earthly mom and dad, then when you accept Jesus as lord and savior you are born again from your heavenly father. That is where the terms such as "a child of christ, a child of God" came from. This is referring to people born again, they now have a heavenly father. |
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Jesus' father's house is his house. You're thinking with a secular mind set. You're thinking with the essence of how it is in this world, you have your house, you have kids, they move out. But no that's not how it is. God's house is Jesus' house. It is a place made specifically for worshiping God and Jesus. Jesus and God are one. In the beginning there was God the father and the word. The word was made flesh eg., Jesus. So again, God's house is Jesus' house. sorry Cowboy......I'm going by what's in the bible during that incident with the money changers....and according to the bible Jesus states that it's his Father's house..Jesus didn't state anything about it being his house ... for the sake of argument let's go with your theory...if it's both of their house, the son still do not have the right to cause damage in his Father's Home in the story of Jesus and the money changers...Jesus did the exact same thing that he was accusing the money changers of doing ...disrespecting his Father's house |
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