lol,, that was kind of the point,....


sarcasm and all that

whew...

that one went over your head.

the point being your intended notion was all such was useless, meaningless, stupid, not smart...

so, in implying such, with sarcasm, one is deeming itself as smarter, mo better, wiser, more enlightened, so guilt of self perceived superiorty.

but then there is no hiding that, lol.

ego much?,,,,lol

I am not the one who resorts to name calling or assessments of others intelligence,,,,




I dont deem myself anything but observing of how this thread so often comes down to each , the believer and non, being so consumed with ego as to somehow degrade and condescend the others beliefs,,,


personally, I believe what I believe as does everyone else, and I am truly not concerned with trying to compare notes for the purpose of 'winning' or being the one who is right and others wrong

I have no issue sharing my faith or my religion, if others wish to know, but there isnt ego in it, there isnt a self serving motive in answering others questions honestly when it comes to personal feelings

I also have no issue accepting others beliefs without having to make it a competition of who is more enlightened or intelligent or which ones God or Ego is more justified and reasonable,,,

I only made a joke cause Im kind of taking a break from school work and this thread is incredibly long for a ONE day thread, ,,,consider it a commercial break

and do carry on ,,,,,

ego?

the only thing that would deem words of another as "ego", would be one that deems itself had no ego, nor spoke thru it's own, so again, self as BETTER THAN, so superior, so therefore, large ego.

for it is truly one that deems itself as having no "bad" ego, that deems itself superior.

superior so much so, as to deem words as "ego".

lol...

and fucck yea, i use my ego everyday.

whenever i need it's trusty lofty self arrogance.

are those "bad" things?

evil?

and it seems one that deems other's as "degrading and condescending", has again made itself superior, by deeming itself the judge of what is degrading and condescending.

is this the same one that said all things were all about love, and in love, and not to be seen as "bad"?

words that hurt but for the self good.

of course, it seems such would be now time to actually apply such words, rather than just speak them, then, oneself would not lower itself to the same degrading and condescending it takes to demean and devalue other's words as not having good purpose.

no clue of what you are on about ,,,,,sorry if I am not choosing appropriately neutral pronouns,,,,its just how I was raised to speak,,,and write

of course you don't.

since you don't recall your own words that said all words spoken were to be taken as in love, and that they were for the good.

but, now you come here, and wish to degrade other posters for words and posts and their precious defending of their free speech and beliefs in god, because they are not approved by you?

not really, you( and I say this at your invitation to use that pronoun) consistently and incorrectly paraphrase and reconstruct what is posted for whatever reason,,,,


I spoke about things being said in love, never said that EVERYTHING was spoken in love

I also am not degrading anyone, considering I included BOTH extremes in my post( the self labeled enlightened believer AND the self labeled intelligent non believer) , with no mention whatsoever about all the grey area of arguments in between

As I said, I dont need to approve of anyones beliefs, each has to live with their own and justify it only to themself,, this is a forum to discuss and explore those beliefs but often turns instead into a battle to place those beliefs on some intellectual or enlightened hierarchy AGAINST each other, instead of an understanding OF each other,,,

THEN IT WOULD SEEM YOU DONT UNDERSTAND OTHER PEOPLE EXPRESS THINGS DIFFERNTLY THAN YOU.

does not make it condescending.

and even if it did, is condesceding BAD?

AND WHY ARE BATTLES BAD?

each thing in life is a battle, against good or evil to the "believers", which believe many are not of god, so than evil, and evil cannot be allowed to take over the world.

can it?

I woudlnt know, good and bad and evil are not adjectives I am known to use to define people, or thoughts I have about them,,,

yes, you are less racist than many.

so you think all humans are children of god?

no, not necessarily, although I believe we are all Gods creations and that he loves us all,,,

children of God , for me, implies a certain inheritance that everyone does not and will not have

thats what i wanted to hear you type and say aloud.

thanks

I guess you're right David. They do indeed confess that their belief is a choice and it's based entirely on faith. So clearly, as you say, it's what they WANT to be true.

And really there shouldn't be any need at all to even talk about whether or not the religion makes any sense precisely because of the fact that it is indeed nothing more than a choice to want to place faith in it.

Therefore, if a person simply doesn't feel that's it's a scenario worthy of placing faith in, then that should perfectly sufficient right there.

And I've made that point many times.

Why would I even want to place my faith in a story that says that I'm at odds with my creator, unworthy of his love, and can only obtain it via 'grace' if, and only if, I accept that my creator is associated with being appeased by blood sacrifices?

I honestly can't see any reason why I should want to place pure faith in such a story even if it made sense. What would I want such a story to be true?

When I look at the Eastern Mystical picture of God I see a picture that is indeed positive and beautiful. So if I'm going to place my faith in something why not place it in something positive and beautiful?

That's how I look at it.

If our creator turns out to be negative and ugly, then I lose. So what? It's no big deal because if that's the truth of our creator then he would still be negative and ugly even if I had accepted him.

In other words, surrendering to Hilter doesn't change Hitler. You lose either way. Reject him, he kills you, accept him, you end up serving a demon. It's a lose-lose situation.

it seems that what one wants to believe, is created entirely by what one WANTS.

it's motive.

the human emotional needs, or WANTS.

for if so many believe in only some as "of god", or knowing god, or from god, or as child gods, then this is what they WANT, and so found the evidence they WANTED to find, and were HAPPY to find, because it suited their FIRST WANT in the first place.

it seems only natural that when a child, one wants to feel special, one of a kind, unqiue, rare, important, and so any data it can define into meaning that, then such is good and grand to itself.

not missed that in a nearly a loveless world, where youth never solve these feelings, then such is carried into adult life.

the truest form of baggage of human existence.s

and all the data self continues to find, to prove it's own worth and value, to the most grand degree possible, is then revered for and by oneself.

so, some find tellings of some god, that loves them more than any other human does, and wa lah, what the little child so longed to hear, it now creates and incorporrates into it's reality, which is totally created in any human being by the total sum of what itself believes.

so, to try to take from these, any notion that they are not MORE BELOVED of god, or show them how they believe so, and speak as so, and act as so, and that this they simply chose based upon their WANT, TO ACCEPT UNTO THEMSELF, well...

thats like taking candy from a spoiled child.

all mannner of temper tantrums shall ensue.

even physical red faced rage in those that have believed such the longest, based upon just how much they have dedicated themself to the WANT of this persuit of "god".

if one says something about the belief then, since it is what assures them of ALL THEIR TOTAL VALUE, then this is as the most personal attack on their own value.

but these cannot see that nothing in there human existence they did, or felt, or thought, made THEM BETTER OF GOD, or better than any other person.

and why does it even matter...

the only thing that creates violence, rape, molestations, abuse, mob mentality, genocide, torture, sexual predators, kidnappings, is a GREATER THAN mentality about oneself...

but, at the same time, anything and everything can appear as better than from another human being.

unless of course, one is praising another?

but praise is doesd out based upon that is what SELF VALUES ABOUT ITSELF.

based upon those are qualities self adores in ITSELF, so it adores them WHEN IT SEE'S THEM IN OTHERS.

so, it become a matter of what is truly better than, greater than any individual qualities.

i can find nothing thus far that exceeds equal value reagardless of individual trait.

so, to the heart of why it matters.

why does it matter if religions have handed down to their wanton subjects, forgiveness, absolution, loved of god status, inheritence of god status, born again of god status, MO SPECIAL of god status...

such eliminates any ability to MEASURE HUMAN VALUE EQUAL.

if being ENDORSED BY GOD, is the MOST VALUABLE THING TO THEM, then what is NOT in their eyes, ENDORSED BY GOD, can NEVER, EVER, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY, BE ACTUALLY "FELT" AS EQUAL.

humans already have a hard time of pain and suffering to shed this "greater than" mentality, created simply from being born on planet earth, where many are busied with many things besides oneself.

so, when it comes to be that SUCH FEELINGS OF LACKING, are fixed by thinking and feeling SELF OF GOD, and many others as not, then there can exist no equal.

and again, human value as not equal, self as greater in value, creates all human harm, suffering, beatings, violence, rape, molestations, torture...

it would seem remiss, not to notice that their jesus had said none was greater than another in heaven.

that would seem to include jesus himself.

lest he be not of and from heaven.

so he couln't be the ONLY GOD THERE.

and indeed said men would come one day to find the kingdom of heaven within.

so, it would seem any claim of god, and to HEAR FROM GOD WITHIN, would be data telling AT LEAST HOW ALL ARE CHILDREN OF GOD, ALL EQUALLY ENDORSESED BY GOD, SO THAN OF COURSE, ALL SPEAKING EQUALLY AND SO HAVING EQUAL VALUE IN WORDS SPOKEN.

which beliefs being taught to ANYTHING that wants to feel MORE SPECIAL, A NATURAL HUMAN TRAIT THAT DRIVES MOST ALL HUMAN WORDS AND ACTIONS, keeps from occuring.

so, no peace, or equal value of all humans, as long as these nefarious notions of "god" are pumped into humanities brains, AND BELIEVED.

so, it matters.

if peace for humankind matters, and relief from killings, molestations, rapes, serial killers, terrorists, gangters, drugrunners, is important to create for our children.

Didn't you when you 1st came on these boards defend the Bible as True?

It seems to me you used to go into long explanations about the bible that was not like today at all.

Even as the name Davids Son leans towards a King Davids Connection.

Did this board change your mind? Blessings...Miles

Well, if the gospels have Jesus saying what you suggest here then they are in contradiction with other gospels (which certainly wouldn't be surprising)

In any case, Matthew has Jesus saying the following:

Matt.5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So based on this Jesus seems to be saying that heaven will be a hierarchical society, not all that different from what we have on Earth. And evidently some people who make it into heaven will not be completely forgiven all of their sins. After all, if a person is considered to be least in heaven because of sins that they had committed on Earth, then clearly they haven't been forgiven of those sins since they are still being held against them.

So evidently there will be "Greater" and "Lesser" people in heaven according to Jesus (so claims Matthew). It won't be much different from what we already have here on Earth. People will still look down on others, even in heaven. Otherwise, how could a person be considered to be "lesser" in heaven?

So heaven won't be an egalitarian society like many Christians seem to think.

Imagine being the "least" in heaven for all of eternity with no hope of ever truly being forgiven. That would be hell, wouldn't it?

Matt 13:11-15

11 He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven , but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.'
NKJV

miles....

your a dear priceless human as i feel all are.

these boards change everything about me each second i exist, as all things self encounters do, if it's mind is opened to ALL DATA AS TRUE...

then it become as matter, OF WHAT IS OF MOST VALUE.

why humans.

of course.

than all other life secondly, as second priority.

the value of life that exist besides humans than is based upon non- human that is the most advanced, or furthest up the ladder of life, as in animals than insects than molecules...

without breaking it down in detail.

just the general idea.

it seems the value of LIFE, which creates all happy, is based and created by FEELING that value...

so, arguing the bible as true, be only for what has that as it's motive.

and WHY does it matter to ITSELF, the bible be true.

to many it matters MOST, because their OWN ASSS, hinges on it being true.

lol...

their OWN SELF PRESERVATION, hinges on it.

their OWN PROMISED GOOD FOR LATER.

good for now.

of course.

but to me, being in a different place in time and space than such things...

there is not a word written in human history OR SPOKEN FROM ANY HUMAN MOUTH, that i cannot find how it is true.

i know that may seem as an impossible, but it is not.

and, these boards have just taught me more what the MOST important things to fight for are.

as indeed, each thing that self experinences it geared and meant to create.

what is OF MOST VALUE WHILE ON EARTH, TO ONESELF.

if one has come by process of human existence, to find itself NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT, but rather "others"....

well, from this perspective, i can assure, ALL WORDS WRITTEN, and penned my mortal man, inlcuding the bible, have a TOTALLY DIFFERENT MEANING...

when read with no SELF SAVING in mind, NO SELF PRESERVATION, NO SELF HAPPY, NO SELF BLISS, NO SELF HEAVEN, sought while reading.

so, how many meaning are in this ONE BOOK?

thousands?

millions?

how can one person, explain all these to each mortal?

and if it is ALL ABOUT OTHERS, than is not EACH human met having DIFFERENT INTELLECT?

different person?

different experience.

so different understandings?

so, this would show tryiung to define some MOST ACCURATE, which would mean nothing, unless VALUE WAS PLACED ON IT BY ANOTHER, is the persuit of unsanity.

lol...

so, being this is the case, than what a human most CARES ABOUT, IS THE ESSENCE OF WHAT BE OF VALUE TO SPEAK OF.

THAT HATH THE POTENTIAL TO UNLEASH?

more caring for others.

and equal caring cannot exist, WITH ANY THOUGTS OF "SOME OF GOD, AND SOME NOT OF GOD".

of course.

truths that were found for "self happiness", create unhappiness for others, BUT, TRUTHS THAT WERE FOUND DO THE THE LONGING FOR HAPPINESS FOR OTHERS, create totally different.

as the motive was different, when this TRUTH WAS TAKEN FOR SELF.

so, if one's focus is seeing the value of others, something as GREATER THAN ITSELF, than the self reading will be different.

so, it seems the most imnportant value is to try to remove from it the value of itself, and convince that others are more valuable.

so that it can assimilate all data BESIDES SOMETHING ABOUT ITSELF.

which opens an entire cosmos of value, and worth, in people and human life.

not trying to prove such be how you should think, or believe, but simply detailing how i think.

as you asked.

since it surely is not about me, being but a speck of dirt, but rather the happiness of the priceless peoples of planet earth, the entire cosmos needed and created to create "humans", and all life, well than....

it becomes most that the grand good fight is not to make each one feel special about themself, or endorsed by god, but rather to help create how others are special to each every mortal.

how can this be done, if their belief, TELLS THEM "THEY" ARE THE MOST SPECIAL?

THE MOST KNOWING?

THE MOST ENDORSED BY GOD?

THE MOST SAVED?

for indeed, what is saved but no feelings of lost, or not sure, or confused, or doubt, or fear of destiny or future or lack of love for self...

and how oft would one have felt such things in life...

but anyhow...

as happy people do not do things that harm other people, than happy for others is most paramount.

and nothing can FEEL elated, without ending and beginning, lest it has first found OTHERS AS GREATER THAN SELF...

for indeed, it is not until then that one even understands itself.

so, whats the better than to create with any life to each be the question at hand.

my passion is peace of mind for others, no loneliness, no fear, no lack of love...

bible text has nothing to do with such things but to remove them, UNLESS IT BE READ HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH SELF HAPPY.

PERIOD.

it HAS TO BE READ WITH UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, or no CARE FOR SELF, period, or it be a curse to whom read it.

the very book itself declared so.

it will create wars and killings and torture and a total devaluing of all human life lest one WANTS NOT ONE IOTA OF ANYTHING FOR ITSELF.

not any kindness, nor favor, nor affection, nor love, nor superiority, nor status, nor praise, nor validation, nor food, nor water, nor life.

so, than it becomes to me most clear that to fight for others happiness if the most important thing, to create happiness amougst all.

which is created by detailing how OTHER'S are special.

not self.

self as special creates all misery and pain and suffering on planet earth.

infinity value about oneself, is a given as soon as anything mortal finds infinity value in ANOTHER.

ENDLESS VALUE.

STOPS NOT WHEN SELF DOES NOT GET WHAT IT WANTS.

for it wanted nothing to start.

for the feelings of "in love" in a human, first came from seeing something else self just thought was "priceless"...

precious.

adorable.

in awe to behold.

and THIS made self feel grand good about itself.

it twas only when there was seeking to CLAIM such for oneself, to OWN IT, to possess it FOR SELF, to make this other serve the self wants and needs, that this feeling of "in love" went away...

important than to see these biblical notions taken as true, DID NOT AND DO NOT CREATE THESE FEELINGS ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE IN THE "BELIEVER" FOREVER.

beliefs make self FEEL GOOD AND SAFE AND SECURE FOR ITSELF.

this creates happiness?

nay...

rather, such induces one to WANT to get these "feelings" from GOD, since it could not get them FROM OTHER PEOPLE AFTER SOMETIME...

WHICH CREATES A "LESS VALUE FOUND AND SEEN IN OTHER HUMANS"...

so, those that don't make oneself FEEL AS THIS, THIS IN LOVE, then of course, these are of less or no value to self...

SO IT IS OBVIOUS "TO ME", the book is indeed a curse, and a TRUE TELLING OF BUT THE CYCLES OF EARTH.

so what shall HAPPEN ON EARTH.

but every other tells of these such things as well.

is the bible "special"...

well, anything that creates THINGS IN HUMAN, has effect, SO NEEDS TO BE UNDERSTOOD TO UNDERSTAND HUMANS, BUT THEN ALL THINGS EFFECT HUMANS.

and nothing is EVER totally understood, or HAVING NO UNKNOWNS THAT SELF WISHES TO KNOW, until ALL SELF HEARS AND READS IS FILTERED "MINUS" ANY SELF INTEREST OR SELF AGENDA FOR SELF.

so the WHY those FIRST CHOSE TO BELIEVE IN SUCH CALLED THE "BIBLE" AND BELIEVED IN IT....

had to become looked at by the PERSON WHOM TOOK THE BELIEF, NO MATTER WHICH OR WHAT IT BE.

so, if i speak more of such matters, than it is because THE WHY, the truest why, SOLVE ALL MATTERS THAT CREATE ANYTHING LESS THAN GRAND.

peace

each can think or define as they wish.

i would only say, that all peace comes from seeing that EARTH RIGHT NOW, IS HEAVEN AND HELL.

whether another believes such as true, well, will hinge if they seek to prove how such CAN BE TRUE.

and totally only provable by what seeks to prove as true.

that is up to each.

each is proving what they want, to SUITE WHAT THEY WANT.

i would only say, such be why it twas said as well, man will find the kingdom of heaven lay within.

man be on earth.

within man means on earth.

childs gods simply wake up to THEIR TRUE MOTIVES ABOUT THEMSELF, and civilization together, creates PARADISE, from AN ENTIRE NEW WORLD OF DISCOVERIES...

that are found when WHAT IS LOOKED AT, CONTAINS NO "SELF AGENDA".

the UNDERSTANDING OF ALL THINGS IS DIFFERENT THAN.

the human brain goes from the scientific 5-10% awareness, TO 100%.

of course, the WANTS OF SELF FOR ITSELF, WAS ALL THE BRAIN FIRST ASSIMILATED DURING EXISTENCE.

all the self knows, IS BASED UPON WHAT IT LOOKED FOR.

to look FOR ONE, SELF, IS SMALL DATA, TO LOOK FOR ALL OTHERS, MINUS SELF, IS COSMOS SIZE.

so, when jesus was describing the "lessor than, and greater than", that is NOW, and why WE DID JUST THAT.

but recall...

THERE WAS PARADISE.

A GARDEN OF EDEN.

DIFFERENT THAN HEAVEN.

MUCH GRANDER.

I see pantheistic views in both of those statements. In fact, I'm not surprise if Jesus actually did refer to Isaiah in that context. It makes perfect sense to me.

I would agree. But who do you think Isaiah was referring to?

Miles, there's a LOT of truth in the Bible. I've never once attempted to claim that there isn't.

What I object to is when people try to hold up the entire Biblical Cannon up as though it is entirely the views of some egotistical Judgmental God who will hate you if you don't believe and obey every single word found within it verbatim.

That's when it loses any spiritual meaning and becomes nothing more than bigoted heartless dogma.

Like I say, recognize Jesus as a Mahayana Buddhist and you'll understand exactly what he was saying, and more importantly, what he wasn't saying.

All Isaiah was basically saying is that if you want to know God you need to look within. God is intuitive, don't look outward to the physical world because that invokes the ego. Once you see yourself as an ego you are lost and separated from God, and everyone else for that matter. If you want to know God you must be still and look within, because that is where God resides. You and the father are one. No different from Jesus. I am in the father and the father is in me (to put it in Hebrew patriarchal terms). Or from a more pantheistic view, I am in the world, and the world is in me.

I and the father are one. Have I not said, Ye are gods? All are children of God. That's the pantheistic view Miles.