Your reward will be in what you put your faith into.

your words say it all cowboy.

REWARD FOR SELF.

faith in "god", WHICH WAS SAID TO BE LOVE FOR OTHERS, is then faith in one's fellow man, MORE THAN ONE HAS "FAITH" IN WHAT ITSELF BELIEVES, TO GET REWARD FOR ITSELF.

that in itself is the culprit.

a self serving motive, believed to be able to create LOVE.

true love says i don't care what "god" says, i am gonna love my child, my family, my friends, my fellow man, by caring about them, MORE THAN I DO ABOUT SOME REWARD FOR MYSELF...

but why do you even repond to me.

i am your adversary.

you shall not convince me, and i shall not convince you.

since you say you inspect yourself for "faults", but will not seek to prove HOW SELF REWARD FOR SELF, IS THE DETRIMENT TO ANY CIVILIZED SOCIETY, AS EACH WILL BUT SEEK TO DO WHAT SUITE THE RECIPE FOR HOW TO "GET THEIR REWARD"...

thats no different than a puppy dog doing good to get treats, a reward for itself.

it is the complete and total creating of all self serving agenda, that can become so strong, IF IN POWER, TO DESTROY MILLIONS.

you have no idea of the impact it would have, if every human in power was embracing the notions you say to believe in, and WHY TO BELIEVE IN THEM.

the very essence of GOD, is supposed to but represent "good"...

and the "devil", as bad...

self interest run amock in some, creates jeffery dahmers, terrorist, that can come to be willing to BLOW UP PEOPLE, TO GET A "REWARD FOR THEMSELF"...

so, it is important to see, the very ROOT CAUSE OR THINKING THAT CREATES SUCH THINGS.

self interest, which is PROCURE GOOD FOR SELF.

IF THERE IS BELIEF, THAT THIS PROCURE FOR SELF, COMES FROM "GOD HIMSELF", THEN IT BECOMES DANGEROUS...

because it DEVALUES OTHER FUCCKING HUMANS TO THE POINT OF BEING ABLE TO RAPE THEM, ASSAULT THEM, MURDER THEM, AND ALL MANNER OF ABUSES.

your thinking about this all from ALL ABOUT YOU.

think about it as, WHAT IF ALL IN THE WORLD THINK AS THIS?

what shall it create.

just because you don't wanna kill somebody today, and you belief your belief, DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL NOT ENCITE ANOTHER THAT CARES LESS TO TERRORIST ACTS.

because its the same mentality.

something i never seen before, promised to give me good, if i do this, and obey.

nothing of honor, nothing of integrity, will even use the words OBEY ME...

for it is NOT ABOUT OBEYING!

IT IS ABOUT CARING ABOUT OTHERS.

IF YOU NEED A BOOK TO TELL YOU HOW TO CARE ABOUT OTHERS, THAN YOUR NOT HUMAN YOURSELF.

no, the book is the LIST FOR SELF REWARD.

has nothing to do with any motive or want to care or love other people.

I'm not even going to read the rest of your post. You're stuck on this "reward for yourself" gig. It has NOTHING to do with reward for self. As a kid did you listen to your parents to further yourself in the things you had? Do you obey them in premeditated thoughts of getting what you want? Kind of a buttering up thing? We obey our father out of LOVE. Just as people obey their earthly parents out of love. Just as a guy will obey his wife/girlfriend out of love. Just as a woman will obey her boyfriend husband out of love. Has NOTHING to do with any form of reward or bettering of one self.

DUDE!

it's your words you posted!

one gets THEIR REWARD BY WHAT ITSELF PUTS FAITH IN?

so, yes, i am stuck on YOUR WORDS.

lol....

Yes but why seek a reward? Why be greedy in such a way you have to be rewarded for your works? Why can't one just do the loving action out of just that, love. Why focus on the reward? Obeying our father isn't about bettering oneself and or receive gifts for oneself through the actions one does.

precisely.

SO, NO SEEKING HEAVEN FOR SELF THEN.

as that would be seeking a REWARD, or planning on some GOOD FOR SELF FROM "GOD".

THAT WOULD BE LIKE USING AND THINKING OF GOD AS SOIME CANDY MACHINE, TO DELIVER ONESELF FROM ALL BAD FOR ITSELF...

I CONCUR!

NO SEEKING REWARD FOR SELF, SO NO SEEKING ANYTHING THAT SOUNDS LIKE GOOD FOR SELF FROM GOD.

damn...

we are on the same page.

i can't believe it, i agree with you this notion creates ALL GOOD THINGS IN HUMANKIND.

SO I EMBRACE THAT PART OF YOUR BELIEF.

ditto's.

now we are no longer adversaries!

hooray!

since those seeking self reward, hurt my fellow man, by using them for self gain, and most those that promote seeking reward from GOD, i do have issues with such greedy mentality that steals from all, most when it is posed as representing some "good" called "god", and said to be some divinely inspired MOTIVE TO HAVE.

ok...

nice to be on the same side of good with ya cowboy.

peace man

It is not obedient or a good deed if one does a deed in vein and or in search of a reward. If I give you a Christmas present in hopes to butter you up to date your daughter, that gift then becomes in vein. When it is in vein it is worse then not doing it in the first place. Because it is on a different level now, it is not just lying, but it is for the bettering of oneself.

That's what our father teaches us. He tells us to do loving deeds for just that, love. To express our love to our fellow person on earth. To make the world a better place instead of everyone trying to cut everyone's head's off. That is ALL our father has taught us. Even the laws, they ALL are laws that pertain to how we treat others.

No lying, no stealing, ect.

whatever.

you serve your father, your belief, i shall serve mine.

The first 4 pertain to how to worship our father.

5. Tells us to love our parents. To honour them.
6. Tells us not to kill anyone.
7. Tells us not to have sex with other peoples wife/husband.
8. Tells us not to steal what others have
9. Tells us not to lie about things other people have or haven't done.
10. Tells us not to desire the objects our neighbours have. Don't want their car, house, ect. Because if you want that object, that could possibly lead to stealing that object.

See even the simple basics of Christianity isn't about bettering of oneself. It's about bettering the world and showing everyone love. To love everyone and not cause harm to them and or their family.

Very well. Love you man, wish you all the best in life. Hope life treats you great.

But those things are not done alturistically, they are done to please God - that is the reward you seek - His pleasure in you.

If God's judgment did not recognize deeds, and the deeds were done anonymously, THEN and only then would there be altruism behind them.
But there would be no reward if God did not look at behavior.

So as long as a person believes that God 'rewards' right behavior, then a person acts out of self-interest when doing what he commands and not out of any sense of ethics, love, loyalty, or altruism - but purely self-interest.

No, again as a child did you obey just to please your parents? Did you do as they told you JUST to please them? Or was it out of love being obedient to your parents? Did you do these things out of direst or again just out of love? That is the same reason we obey our father's law. Out of love, not out of direst, force, fear, or anything of such. Just purely out of love and wish to be obedient for our father. Not for a reward, but to uplift God's name in everything we do.

Exactly. The entire focal point of Christianity is that a "GIFT" of eternal life is being offered. That's supposed to be the "Good News".

It's definitely a self-interest religion. There can be no question about it whatsoever.

And the THREAT is that if you don't accept this "GIFT" then you die, and it's not going to be pleasant because their will be wailing and the gnashing of teeth. There's clearly going to be some pain involved in rejecting this so-called "GIFT".

So it's both reward-based, and fear-based, simultaneously.

Earn the "GIFT", or SUFFER the consequence!

Why they even call it a "GIFT" is beyond me. Sound more like a slave contract. The only way to God is to agree to do HIS WILL for all of eternity. And looking at it that way, and after having read how this God behaves in the stories of the Bible, I most certainly would not wish to be this God's slave.

It's seems to me that if any "GIFT" is being given in this religion I would be giving this God the "GIFT" of my eternal slavery and obedience if I accepted his proposition.

And it also sounds like he's a sore loser, because I can't even decline his offer politely without being threatened with being made to wail and having my teeth gnashed.

If he's so nice, why can't he accept rejections of his so-called "Gift" without getting nasty of about it?

I see the religion as nothing but a pure threat. "Either obey me for eternity or their will be wailing and the gnashing of teeth!"

I don't see any reason to 'love' such a God. It just appears to me to be a cosmic Hitler. You can't even decline this God's propositions with respect and dignity. You should be able to politely say, "No thank you" to this God and not be threatened or disrespected for it not being interested.

It's really a shame that we can't get past this religion to talk about more loving spiritual philosophies.

yes COWBOY...

A CHILD OBEYS, MANY TIMES, TO GET WHAT IT WANTS, AND TO SPARE ITSELF BAD, that is why it is called A CHILD.

IF THE PARENT HAS CREATED A REWARD SYSTEM FOR THE CHILD, INSTEAD OF FOR LOVE, FOR THERE IS NO REWARD SYSTEM IN LOVE, RATHER, DO IT BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU "HAPPY", NOT BECAUSE YOU GET TO GO TO FUCCKING HEAVEN, OR WILL GO TO HELL IF YA DON'T.

THAT IS REWARD REWARD BASED.

yes, it is all around you in your world.

government, schools, police, military, parents, kids...

that is the fuccking curse...

the curse of "good and bad"...

of good and evil...

OF RIGHT AND WRONG...

THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG, JUST CARING OR NOT CARING FOR ANOTHER.

AND WHO IS THE TELL OF THAT?

THEM!!!

NOT GOD!

No need to use inappropriate language. It is not for getting to heaven, saving yourself from hell, or anything of such. It is for being OBEDIENT to our father. And no a child doesn't obey their parent's on earth to gain something. They do not do as they are told to gain more for them self. They do it out of love, to be a good kid.

No that is not the reason we obey our father. It is not a bettering of oneself to get to heaven. Yes it is to get to heaven, but we wish to get to heaven to praise and worship our father more. It is out of being obedient to our father and what wishes for us to do or not to do. It's not for the bettering of oneself.

My friend.....whom without which I wouldn't even be thinking as I am right now calls this spiritual rape. It's absolutely a fear tactic.

You're right on the gift thing too, how can it be a free gift if there's a catch to taking it?

Fear has nothing to do with it and there's absolutely no catch. Aren't all gifts in one way or other earned to a degree atleast? Do you give your enemies a gift and or people that treat you badly? No, not unless you're trying to patch the relationship up between the two of you. But you don't just give them a gift to show them how much you love them. They earn that gift.

NOTHING CAN EARN LOVE.

IT IS FREE.

Fear has everything to do with it. When you're holding ones feet over the proverbial fire, it's much easier to bend them to your will then if not. This is what religion, and in particular Christianity does. It promises Heaven if you do things their way, and threatens you with hellfire if you don't. It's a perfect control mechanism, give someone security if they do as they're told, and burn them forever if they don't. It's a power thing, they use eternity as leverage over us.

To a certain extent perhaps, but......remember God works on a different plane then we do down here, that's first off. Secondly.....once the gift is actually put out there, if it is being given freely then there shouldn't be any catch. If it's free, all should be entitled to it, otherwise it's not free by definition.