Though I’m providing quotes, I don’t mean to restrict responses, I would like everyone to feel welcome to address these things.



Ok, so if angels are separate from humans, but angels are ‘spirit’ beings, and Satan and his minions were angels, then how can Satan & minions possess a human when angels cannot? Or perhaps there terminology issue, perhaps possession does not mean inhabit – could that be where I’m not understanding?



Ok, so the body is vessel, do you think every living ‘body’ houses a spirit or only human bodies house a spirit?



So by this analogy, it would not be a body that houses a spirit but the blood. I think that’s what Jehovah Witnesses believe which is why they refuse blood transfusions, but I may not have the whole story there.

There is also additional confusion because the mother and embryo share their blood, would that mean that spirits and can cohabitate or intermingle – wouldn’t that have any effects on mother or baby?

There’s still the question of whether the spirit is created for a particular body (simultaneously) or if it pre-dates the body? I know there stories in some ancient scriptures that speak of God ‘knowing’ a person LONG before that person’s body was ever conceived – would that mean there are a lot of spirits ‘waiting’ for the right time, place, and body to inhabit?



Actually, this is a big issue for those who believe in a deity. If a deity has physical form (body) then it also has limitations – which is why, I think, most people consider their deity to be a spiritual being, an entity without form. A spirit would have no reason to require oxygen and any kind of ‘physical’ body has certain requirements to be maintained – which is the limiting factor.



Try tipping the ‘Stewart/ ess’ next time though they’re not allowed to take money, being kind and a compliment or two may be the tip that’s needed. At least you might have gotten more nuts.

I love watching your mind multi-task, it's like seeing my mind in words - If I could only transfer that multi-task ability to the real world. ANYWAY..

What kind of attributes were you giving your god that it drove you mad?

Well that brings the question "What are ghosts?"
By some accounts we are led to think that ghosts are any kind of spiritual entitiy. If that's so, than the term 'ghost' might be like the term 'animals' - in that each category houses seperate species.

Example: Angels would be one species, human souls another, poltergeists another and so on.

Where did all these spirits come from and how is it they can all interact with our physical world but seem impervious to the other ghostly species?



Your question was not made clear enough to respond to. As the questions I posed above would indicate, there are many differing beliefs as to the nature of ghostly spirits.

Unless the people discussing spirituality have a clear understanding of each others beliefs - the conversation can end up being meaningless. So how would define the nature of spirits and ghosts?

Can you break out of hell? I always wondered.

Since you question sex, does that mean you believe spirits are a type of entity that reproduce? Wouldn't that suggest that they also die?

Yet there are many beliefs that suggest spirits are eternal.

Useing every bit of information ever gained from any sourse to indicate its influence on an personally held opinion is not a problem. The problem in these threads seems to lie in the fact that we demand a direct responce for support of every opinion.

Quoting from a reference that can be interpreted in dozens of ways creates animosity. I figured it would be best if we deal with beliefs and opinion on a personal level.

If an opinion is influenced by a particular scriptural source, it does not need to be quoted in this thread. As I said, simply saying I hold my opinion based on Christian doctrine should suffice. I'm hoping we can explore this topic without the typical total involvement and ambiguous arguments that arise from constant quoting and interpreting of a single source of beliefs.

Good, and since so many questions related to this topic are not specific knowledge provided by any ancient that I know of, then there would be no reason to believe anything other than any of the answers could be "possible".

Of course, I don't happen to believe in God, so I may be the equivalent of his advisarial advocate. Just letting you know that my own questions of spiritualtiy are not guided by religious belief but more by science.



So by that account there is no exclucivity, the two, body and spirit, require each other to exist. Is that what you believe or are you exploring options?



So how would you describe 'fully formed' and based on your description, would you choose this option as an opinion, a belief, simply one of many possibilities?



I think the confusion might be perceptions of 'spirit'. When I think of 'spirit', I tend to imagine it as an entity without physical characteristics. To me that would make it incompatible with the physical world - however - if it is compatible with humans, as many believe, then could it not, of its own accord, find and initiate the mergence with a body or a body for which it was destined? Kind of like an instinctual action.

Wow - I'm the only one replying so I'm going to take a break and go play some pool.

Sorry, I just got back from my AA meeting. I got the coffee pot going; Ours because that way we didn't have to worry about the lime deposits on the Church's coffee machine. Makes one wonder though about the filtration for their water source but that is neither here nor there. Now there is an idea because if it is not here or there then where is it?

My run in with spirits which I felt as demonic was during my grieving period. Thankfully, I got some good input in the forums about the term, "My better half". One lady pointed out to me that we are whole persons. Such phrases can take on a life of their own. What I had experienced was a cultural shock from the loss of my wife which was different than the divorce of my former wife. Losing a soul mate can be a real shock to the system once a joining or melding with the other psyche has occurred. Reprogramming one's self back to the concept of "I" when one has gotten used to the concept of "We" took time for me. It was like I could relate with the tortoise in the Neverending Story where it said, "We have been alone for so long that we just starting to call ourself we".

Even though partially my physical mind mentally had accepted her passing my spiritual mind did not. I over E was definitely a problem during this time. E was more over I was what developed. I manifested this ghost of my departed wife through my mind and poetry and it was a creation of sorts. Plato referred this in his work on forms and constructs. But once my mind started to create it created other spirits as well. Some of them not so nice. It to me was madness but madness that my mind would tolerate. It was better than being alone. Or at least it was in the beginning.

It was during this time I started back to the meetings. What a climb out of the pit it was. Because I had become agoraphobic and claustrophobic as well. Being around people greatly helped to expel these demons that my mind had constructed and gave life to. Over time I became less isolated and melded back into society a more whole person.

No, I dont believe the spirit cant exist without the body, anymore than I believe dust cant exist without water, but that when the spirit and body are joined simultaneously it creates 'human', much like mixing dust and water will make mud

I believe fully formed to be at conception, this is my BELIEF

its possible a spirit could initiate a merge with the body it is intended for, much like its possible that man can create 'life' without a human body,,, but I believe it to be in Gods control

As a latter saint so i use the book of Mormon. Before coming to this earth we were in the spiritual world with our heavenly father DC 138:55-56 and we are not becoming demon after death we are going to the celestial,telestial and terrestrial kingdoms decreasing in rewards respectively DC 76,131,132:19-24 and 137 all in the book of Mormon. Thank you i know you know the answers but wanted people to share it by discovering it themselves. GOB RIChly bless you

Thanks Red for posting this.

I generally don't go into the religious forums because tossing scripture at each other is like tossing rhetoric in the political forums. It just polarizes people and there is always a constant battle.

I sit down and have candid discussions about my beliefs (which fall in the Christian realm) with many of my friends who have different belief systems and religions.

This should be a good topic/thread... if people keep the 'religious rhetoric' out of it.

You are certainly a testament to the fact that there is no standard when it comes to the greiveing process. Each must come to terms with loss in their way.

Your story brings up the possibility of at least one type of ghost, the ones we create in our minds. I think, in some ways, the memories of a person seem to come together and when we realize there will be no more shared memories, we embody all the ones we have of that person in a construct (the ghost) that we can keep as long as we live.

Thanks for sharing your experience, maybe the 'ugly' ghosts were your mind's way of tell you, your memories were comeplete and your construct was done and embedded inside you, so it was time to get back to the living and new memories.

I'm sure happy you did, you help a lot of people and you I sure enjoy reading what you have to share.

So now we have the 'internal ghost' species to add to the list of spirits.

Oh, I see, so fully formed equates to a human with spirit, naturally they must both be present for the embreyo to continue to develope.

So now, as I understand it, the spirit that is human, is different than the spirit (non-physical entities)that are angels.

Does that mean you don't believe in 'human' ghosts, the kind people talk about as being lost souls haunting the living, or just watching over a loved-one or influencing dreams?

When I was growing up I use to think, probably influenced by movies like "It's a Wonderful Life", that people could become angels. As I grew older and got more information it seemed more like angels were a separate species and your replies seem to back that up.

Do you think there could be other species of spirits, those that some poeple might confuse with the 'human' ghosts I described above?

Thanks so much for sharing. I spent about two years researching Mormon history and studying the various scriptures. I found it very interesting that so much of the book of Mormon was similar it's Christian counter-part, but I can't say my understanding of one or the other was any better.

So, happy to have you hear to speak on this topic.

In your belief, (so everyone can know)does the spirit separate from the physical or does the whole body (spirit & physical)pass on to various levels?

AND, do you believe in ghosts and if so, what do you think they are?

My pleasure - I hope you will post and maybe we can set a better precident. and learn something about others instead of arguing over the interpretation of the same thing over and over.

I see spirits used as many different things.

A baby forming is the DNA spirit of 2 individuals coming to gether to start growth. Getting ready to take the leap to the next phase. Being born.

It has to develope into at least a unborn child that can take in the Breath of life.

Apperently during these 9 months more or less the Baby was able to sustain its life through its mother. Does its lungs function during this time?

I do not believe so as a newborn becomes a seperate being when it takes this breath of life.. Called Nepha..

They are named and continue to grow untill death.

So the dust Adam was made of did not have life untill Nepha was Breathed into him.. That 1st breath making him a living breathing human being.. No different than the animal kingdom.. Whether in the sea or on ground everthing needs the air we breath. When we stop breathing it we die.

The Spirit world was created Spirit. They have no need of food, water or breath of life.

When we die our Nepha is taken from us and goes back to where it came. The Beginning of all things.

No more no less. So thier is no such thing as a spirit ghost from a human being. Demons seem to beable to inhabit things such as people.

A person has to allow them in though in most cases depending on what you call a demon as alot of demons can be mental illness and have nothing to do with the spirit world.

But those who play around asking for demons to come to them then an evil force can enter. The demons in the person legion meaning many demons were cast out and allowed to enter the swine. They had to have permission to do so and the swine committed suicide having them in them.. They could not handle it. So the question could be raised can a animal invite a demon into it?

Then as we grow older we see at an age of accountibility which i believe is 20 or older once again we ask for a spirit to enter us. We may have the goodness of a good spirit in us but untill we ask for this spirit to indwell us it does not. we must ask the same as a person asking a demon to come to them. we have a choice.


We were made of the dust of the ground and when this Nepha the nreath of life leaves us we die and in the old world we would turn back into the dust of the ground the same as we see animals do.

The everlasting spirit we ask into us has requirements for it to live thier. This spirit is the scriptures of life that leads us and shows us where and what to do. Way more than Nepha its just the beginning of an individual life thats it.

The spirit of life is named. we do not know it now but it is what is recorded in the book of life our New Name for the New World.

Born again.with our fathers name and his DNA if u care to call it. Then as spirit beings we have our fathers will complete in us and nothing can tear that down.. Blessings...Miles

Really?

Its very easy to discuss relativity without referring to einstein. The first course I took which really got into the details of relativity didn't mention Einstein hardly at all - it was assumed that the student are knew the basic history of relativity, and a more detailed look at the history of relativity theory was completely outside of the scope of a class on relativity itself.

The value of any of einsteins claims stand (or not) based on evidence, not on any quality of einstein himself or circumstance or events of his life.

Investigating relativity only requires that we know about the claims, the evidence, and the utility/application of the claims. History, people, personalities, etc - while valuable on their own terms - are not necessary to understand and apply the theories.




I savvy student of physics knows better than to turn to Einsteins writings for the best information on relativity. Scientists, generally (and fortunately) know better than to place too much faith in any single source.

and christians know better than to believe the bible is just 'one source' isntead of a collection of sources , accepted as truthful, over centuries,,,,

the 'no bible' rule is great!,,,,,in fact you shoulda threw in any/all 'holy scriptures'!

I was giving him god like qualities. See I am human and don't have god like qualities. I have human qualities. Its the image thing that gave me problems. I have imagination and it can be very creative but it does have limitations. Because of image what happened was I created myself as god subconsciously. Came across like I had no one to answer to because I was all powerful. You have to realize I was on some heavy self medicated hallucinogenics at the time. I became self will run riot. It took what I thought was three different types of contradictions working simultaneously to counteract this. One being that there is no god so how could I be god. Two being that there was no way I could prove I was god so how I could be god. And three there is a god so how could I be him. Luckily for me my mind can only handle one contradiction at a time. The triple contradiction is a power greater than myself.