I wouldn't know. That is an individual thing. I'm not going to rack my brain to figure out others. I don't only see one holiday. I see many and I support others rights to celebrate them whether I agree with them or not or whether I understand them or not.

I don't think anyone should be forced to believe as I do and to do as I say.

That's what is great about the first amendment.

I wonder though....for those that are offended, have they contacted the White House? They have had a Christmas tree tradition for a while now.

Where in this thread has anyone legitimately said that home decorations are offensive and that they shouldn't be allowed?



When is tolerance practiced and when is it enforced?

Who has the greatest responsibility to ensure equality for all?

What responsibility should business owners have to the public who
would purchase their product?

When a behavior offends another whose problem is it?

Do the core values of individuals take precident over behavior that serves the common good? When would this be the case and when would it not?

and doesnt the first family have to reside there? so why should they, as citizens, not be permitted to celebrate whatever holiday they wish(with the accompanying decorations)?

gosh, I hope we dont get to be a place that tries so hard to maintain the idea of not promoting religion that we actively start denying any religion expression in public places

if we are so multicultural and tolerant, why do we so easily offend when someone else celebrates differently than we do? I hope businesses in jewish communities can still feel free to have Hanukkah sentiments on their property, and Irish communities can have businesses with st pattys decorations, and and atheists can display happy solstice or whatever, and christians can display merry christmas,,,,etc,,,


I really dont want a place where everyone has to have an approved decor at their business with no room for any individual identity or atmosphere,,,

Same thing. They can be seen by the public. Stores, etc aren't owned by the government. They should be allowed to decorate as they see fit. If someone doesn't like it, then they have the right to take their business elsewhere if they chose. You are completely missing the point. This was just an example.



This is up to individual people.



who gets to pick and chose what others do as long as it is legal? Whose core values???? There are many core values out there. Who is right or wrong? Whose common good? Yours??? Mine????

Who are we to dictate how others want to celebrate? We have laws in place for illegal acts, but what if it's no illegal? Who gets to decide?

I won't decide for others. I only decide for myself. I will continue as I am. No one will decide for me.

Again....where does it stop? Someone will always be offended by something. Do we stop it only when it effects your personal beliefs even if it offends others?

it is the problem of the one who is offended, UNLESS, the offender is INTENDING to offend in which case Id say they also have a problem

there is no true equality when it comes to beliefs and individual expression, if we didnt have opposite extremes than equality would be more than an ideal, but because we do(believers vs nonbelievers)

it is impossible to APPEASE them both on every occasion,

as far as the tree is concerned, if I am that business owner and christmas has been a significant celebration for me and those who make up my company board and base customers, than expecting me to HIDE that individual identity is an abridge to my expression

to take religion out of it and put it in a more logic based(less emotion based) analogy, say I am the owner of a company started by my father and my father was a proud cowboy who ate steak and potatoes, If the company starts out with the tradition of posting a poster of a cowboy and bear rug on the floor,,,should someone who might be vegan or might be a native american and find the bear or the cowboy offensive seriously believe that the IDENTITY of the company founders should have to start being overlooked?

If a company is begun by christians who celebrate christmas, so long as they dont FORCE customers to celebrate christmas, how they choose to decorate their business should be a matter of their personal identity not the perceived identities of future clients,,,

when you have opposites, appeasing one is an afront to the other

if you let christians keep the tree, its an afront(although I dont understand how as we all have multiple choices as consumers and arent FORCED to look at or shop somewhere we dont wish to) to non christians

and if you let non christians force the tree down, it will likewise be seen as an afront to the christians

I say, a matter as insignificant as a decoration that has no bearing on the business you are conducting or quality of products you are buying, people shouldnt expect to have such complete control over what owners choose to do

its just like they say about television, if its not what you like, change the channel

Exactly MsHarmony. I can't think of anyone that puts up decorations (of any kind) just to hear people complain. They do it to be festive, religious beliefs or for others to enjoy.

Even with the Atheist billboard....yes I can take it as offensive, but they have the right to do that. I have the right to ignore it if I want.

If we get rid of anything deemed to be religious (even if others celebrate it too) then we need to get rid of EVERYTHING....Christian, Pagan, Atheist, everything...

I feel like I'm spinning my wheels in here so I CHOSE to leave it to you guys. I tried.

I will enjoy the decorations of the season (of all kinds) and will continue to learn about other celebrations and beliefs. And I will enjoy what I have in my life and not try to take things from others. Plain and simple.

Enjoy

Good grief We don't live in Dictatorship and we don't want to live in a Dictatorship.I know you would love if our President tells all the Christians to piss off and ban any religious message outside of our own homes.


I am not sure where you and others somehow think that just because you are in a public place the entire public has to revolve around your way of thinking.Your not offended by a stupid Christmas tree or lights.Your hate Christians and anything related to Christianity,want it banned,and want Christians to stay in their house never to be heard of again.I can see it crystal clear and I am sure others do as well.That is why you don't start topics ranting and raving about any other religions except Christians.


So your offended,you can't stand it,and you puke every time you see some Christmas lights.Who cares?Maybe you should start a website and list all the business that have a Christmas tree or lights and sell maps so you can avoid these places.Maybe you can start a "I'm offended law"and everyone who offended you can be fined or thrown in jail.Maybe you can demand this country act just like many other third world dictatorships where no one has a right to do anything except pay taxes to their Government.We can all just sit around and believe in nothing and be totally miserable.


Our founding fathers wanted more than anything a country where you can be as free as possible and to practice your religion with out the Government saying one word about it.They wanted huge celebrations,fireworks,noise,and decorating the town from top to bottom.They Celebrated Christmas in a huge way probably even more then we do now.


You can either tolerate Christmas or move to another country where it is not celebrated at all.Because you simply do not have any right to stop anyone from celebrating Christmas any way they see fit.Our freedom of religion is a RIGHT and it is also a RIGHT that our Government can not prevent us from practicing our religion.


Your offended?Then I guess your screwed.Because there is no laws that say you don't have a right to be offended.I guess you can start a petition saying from now on anything that offends you will have to be made law.We can all join in.Since I find Atheist offensive I will have to put that on the list,gay pride parades,liberals,Obama,and Pelosi.I also find Kansas offensive since there is nothing to do there.Smart cars,speed limit signs,speed bumps,rap music,lada Gaga,these all offend me and we should pass laws demanding they are banned.

I think anyone that would actively complain that there is a christmas tree or w/e in a store is an intolerant person, so they are being hypocritical in complaining that the tree should be removed.

One story tells of the Tree of Thor being cut down by a Saint Boniface: "cut down the tree of Thor in order to disprove the legitimacy of the Norse gods to the local German tribe. St. Boniface saw a fir tree growing in the roots of the old oak. Taking this as a sign of the Christian faith, he said '...let Christ be at the center of your households...' using the fir tree as a symbol of Christianity."

I'm sure those who still believe in Thor and other Norse gods find the Christmas tree to be a lovely and festive symbol...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree

Relating more to evergreen trees, I found this on another site:

"Many Pagan cultures used to cut boughs of evergreen trees in December, move them into the home or temple, and decorate them. Modern-day Pagans still do. This was to recognize the winter solstice -- the time of the year that had the shortest daylight hours, and longest night of the year. This occurs annually sometime between DEC-20 to 23: most often DEC-21. They noticed that the days were gradually getting shorter; many feared that the sun would eventually disappear forever, and everyone would freeze. But, even though deciduous trees, bushes, and crops died or hibernated for the winter, the evergreen trees remained green. They seemed to have magical powers that enabled them to withstand the rigors of winter."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm

I'll rally my bird minions and we shall bury you and your cars in droppings!

No, BUT.....

"That's the trouble with 'have a nice day'; it puts all the pressure on you. Now you've gotta go out and somehow manage to have a good time. All because of some loose lipped cashier. 'Have a nice day'...Maybe I don't feel like having a nice day. Maybe, just maybe, I've had 63 nice days in a row. And, by God, I'm ready for a crappy day. Let someone wish me a crappy day. I never hear that. "Have a crappy day!" That's no problem at all. All you have to do is get up some mornings. There's no planning involved."

I miss George.

Ahh...but you know before entering that it is a Pagan bookstore. The name even suggests it pretty strongly. But walking into Chase Bank doesn't immediately hint at being a Christian bank, nor does the business inside suggest that is what they do. It doesn't suggest they are Jewish either, although stereotypes would suggest otherwise.

If I walk into the local Christian bookstore, I'd have to be an idiot (or a glutton for punishment)to get offended by religious decor or greetings.

I should point out that I've had quite the bit of exposure to all of this. Born of Hispanic parents (Cuban, I think); adopted by a Jewish family (but never had a bar-mitzvah, by choice); exposed to Christianity in military school (although non-denominational); read up on quite a few of the "pagan" religions including Wicca and Native American beliefs, I now sit here pretty much a Buddhist in mind, body and spirit.

I'm offended when women wear an outfit that shows cleavage and then get upset when I stare. If you don't want me looking at it, DON'T FRAME IT!

We seem to draw that line at public nudity. You can do it in the privacy of your own home, you can even do it "publically" in privately owned areas with other people. But if you go on your front lawn for nude sunbathing, people have decided that is offensive.

Why is that? If nothing sexual is happening, what is the offense? If it causes sexual thoughts, whose fault is that? And that's all just while you stay upon your own private property. If someone is offended by nudity, isn't that for them to deal with?

Just food for thought...

I'm about to log off but I wanted to address what Bryan is catching up on

as far as public nudity....there are laws against that. Not against decorations.

As far as the store I mentioned (already addressed) I said basically. They sell all religious things. Not just pagan. The owners just happen to be pagan. This example was used in regards to the "public" display.

The whole point in these examples is to show that no matter what...someone will always be offended over something.

I think it's safe to say if the Obama family did NOT put up a Christmas tree and instead had Kwanzaa decorations that there would be an uproar by quite a few people. He's even been accused of being <GASP> Muslim! I think if he announced that he was agnostic or atheist would be even more offensive than if he announced he was Muslim...

Oh I know there's a law against it, but why? Because SOME people are offended by the naked human form? Is something being shown that is foreign to us? Children seem to have no problem with nudity until it is imposed upon them.

I wonder if you did a poll of all Americans as to whether they felt the naked human form was offensive, how many would say it is?

I'll come back to this later. But when these people go after ALL holidays that could have a religious meaning (whether it's celebrated that way or not) and go after EVERYONE equally....then maybe the argument might hold water with me.

BTW Bryan...you are actually helping me prove my point. Someone will always be offended over something that someone else isn't.