Topic: Who does Christmas Offend?
yellowrose10's photo
Mon 12/06/10 09:30 PM



Wasn't this thread about religious icons? Exactly how do Christmas 'decorations' fit in to religion? Sounds a lot more like a capitalist venture to me.


The OP was about a Christmas tree, to be specific.


Sorry, I stand corrected

So exactly how to evergreen trees, brightly decorated, get associated with one specific religious holiday?


there are legends on this. Depends on what an individual believes.

Several use it for decorations and not religiously.

As I have posted before....I'm Christian but I don't celebrate the holidays as a religious holiday due to my own personal beliefs

But I won't tell others they are wrong or that I'm offended and they need to remove it either.

Redykeulous's photo
Mon 12/06/10 09:36 PM
Edited by Redykeulous on Mon 12/06/10 09:37 PM

so (if I am understanding correctly) just because some may or may not be offended, people have to stop celebrating the holidays as they want to?


People can celebrate however they wish - but is it necessary to plaster icons and create elaborate displays and force everyone to listen to Christian beliefs in the music that is piped endlessly throughout the grocery store?

Can't the public domain be NEUTRAL? If a person feel so compelled to wish me well, can it not come from inside instead in the name of their god?

May the risen Mithra bless you in the dark of midwinter

Redykeulous's photo
Mon 12/06/10 09:42 PM




I'm not a christian and some on here know exactly how I feel about christianity, i've always celebrated christmas and not in any religious way either. I look at it as an excuse to get together and eat way too much...like thanksgiving. It pisses me off when I hear people tell me happy holidays. I make em wish me merry christmas. Don't care who is offended by it, its what we celebrate here and other religions and atheists alike need to get over it.


I was with you until the getting pissed off about happy holidays part. Seeing as Christmas is not the only holiday in December, I don't see what's wrong with happy holidays.


Happy holidays assumes that everyone celebrates some holiday. I really don't think Jehovah Witnesses do, though I may be wrong, and while I may join some friends or family in a gathering, it's not a holiday to me, it's a get together and I don't need a holiday for that.

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 12/06/10 09:46 PM

People can celebrate however they wish - but is it necessary to plaster icons and create elaborate displays and force everyone to listen to Christian beliefs in the music that is piped endlessly throughout the grocery store?


Some people might think it IS necessary. That is their belief. Why should stores and business remain neutral if they don't want to? That is their right


Can't the public domain be NEUTRAL? If a person feel so compelled to wish me well, can it not come from inside instead in the name of their god?


As several have posted in here, it's not always about religion. Bored and Sing aren't Christian but they celebrate Christmas. That is their right and I wouldn't dream of telling them they can't. If I am offended by them doing this (which I'm not) then that is on me, not them.


May the risen Mithra bless you in the dark of midwinter


I'm not Pagan, but I don't find this offensive (whether that is your goal or not) I take this as a well wish and I would say same to you.

This season isn't just about Christmas. The OP happened to be about a Christmas tree, but there are several holidays during this season.

Everyone should be allowed to celebrate as they see fit without other's trying to tell them what to do

AllenAqua's photo
Mon 12/06/10 09:50 PM
As a Christian, I do celebrate Christmas as a joyful occasion to be thankful for and in awe of the birth of my Savior.

I care not about whether he was born in December, March, or on the fourth of July.

No one can influence or intimidate me about that conviction.

A Christmas tree is just a tree (or facsimile thereof) that represents nothing more than a traditional decoration. I personally feel that some are beautiful like art, others are kind'a cheesy, but they don't have anything to do with the reason for the season.

I'm not running for political office so I don't care a nit about being politically correct.

If I wish you a "merry Christmas", it's meant as a wish that you be happy and blessed.

If it makes you happy to take offense, I suppose that offense is a blessing to you in spite of yourself.

If it makes you happy to return that genuinely positive sentiment with one by your own positive convictions, fine, thank you :)

Any negative response to my sincere wish for your spiritual well being says more about you than it does about me.

If businesses bestow the traditional season's greeting of "merry Christmas", fine by me... If not, fine by me... If they want to wish me a non Christian salutation, fine by me...

I fully understand that they're out for their bottom line and not sincerely interested in whether or not the holidays are merry for me, beyond what they stand to gain from me monetarily.



So Merry Christmas, happy New Year, and good tidings to all...flowerforyou

no photo
Mon 12/06/10 09:52 PM





I'm not a christian and some on here know exactly how I feel about christianity, i've always celebrated christmas and not in any religious way either. I look at it as an excuse to get together and eat way too much...like thanksgiving. It pisses me off when I hear people tell me happy holidays. I make em wish me merry christmas. Don't care who is offended by it, its what we celebrate here and other religions and atheists alike need to get over it.


I was with you until the getting pissed off about happy holidays part. Seeing as Christmas is not the only holiday in December, I don't see what's wrong with happy holidays.


Happy holidays assumes that everyone celebrates some holiday. I really don't think Jehovah Witnesses do, though I may be wrong, and while I may join some friends or family in a gathering, it's not a holiday to me, it's a get together and I don't need a holiday for that.


Those saying Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah are assuming people celebrate a specific holiday. Anyway, no matter what you say, someone will get offended. Those who are getting offended by these things are looking for something to be offended by, it seems.

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 12/06/10 09:54 PM
I know me and Sing don't always agree (on religion or politics) laugh but I'm glad we can agree on this. drinker

As far as Navygirl ignoring well wishes, that's fine. I may not agree with it, but I can respect it because she is taking personal accountability for herself. We can can only be accountable for ourselves.

Redykeulous's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:01 PM



I can see it being offensive if someone...let's say....walks into a synagogue and yells "Merry Christmas" knowing they don't celebrate Christmas. But if someone comes to me and says Happy Hanukkah I would feel good because they are sending me well wishes.



When you walk into any PUBLIC arena you do not leave your religious beliefs at home. For example, Christians like to say that the body is a temple - so you're church is whereever you go. So walking into ANY public arena and shouting 'Merry Christmas' or 'May Mithra be with you' or 'Happy Hanukkah' is the same as depicted in your scenario.

The truth is, personnally, I'm really not offended at all by a heartfelt personal wish for health, prosperity, happiness, etc - what does offend me is when poeple wish it in their name of their god of which I have no personal connection to. Hoever, I tolerate it because I would like to believe that the person wishing felt some connection with me - even if just out of respect for another human being.

What I don't understand is why Christians seem to NEED these dramatic displays all around them, in order to feel like it's Christmas. If that's what freely expressing a religious belief is all about ....

Isn't that quite imposing on others who do not share the need to display their religious beliefs in such boisterous style?

Shouldn't we feel the least bit uncomfortable with exhibitionist displays of only one when thre are so many others in our country?





Obviously it's not just Christians that put up decorations (as seen in this thread alone)

If someone is offended because I celebrate in my own way, then frankly that is their problem.

You can't please everyone. I'm not going to stop being who I am because someone doesn't like it.

People should be who they are and not have to stop because they may or may not offend someone.

Turn the tables....those who are offended by these things and want it to stop are infringing on the rights or beliefs of others.

It's not just Christmas. There are other holidays that people decorate for and say well wishes for.


I think there's confusion in this thread. The OP is about displays IN PUBLIC PLACES. How people choose to celebrate or commemorate some special day is not the problem. It's bringing that celebration into every public sector that creates the problem.

Quite honestly, at least in my opinion, I think the whole Christmas holiday is offensive in SO many ways, most of which have nothing to do with religion at all.

In fact, I've spend MANY years trying to figue out why Christians don't take offense at how their beleifs have been used as manipulative marketing tool to further mass consumerism.

Unfortunately, I think I have come to some realizations that explain the complicit attitudes of so many Christians to accept that kind of manipulation. Those realizations are the reasons why the religious aspect of the 'Chrismas season' is so offensive to me. But I will refrain from that discussion in this thread.

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:07 PM

I think there's confusion in this thread. The OP is about displays IN PUBLIC PLACES. How people choose to celebrate or commemorate some special day is not the problem. It's bringing that celebration into every public sector that creates the problem.


No confusion on my part. It may be a public place but it's not government owned. They have a right to decorate as they wish.


Quite honestly, at least in my opinion, I think the whole Christmas holiday is offensive in SO many ways, most of which have nothing to do with religion at all.


And that is your right. I wouldn't try to tell you how to think or feel.


In fact, I've spend MANY years trying to figue out why Christians don't take offense at how their beleifs have been used as manipulative marketing tool to further mass consumerism.


It is individuals beliefs. That is on them to decide. Not everyone sees it the same way. Again, not all Christians are alike.


Unfortunately, I think I have come to some realizations that explain the complicit attitudes of so many Christians to accept that kind of manipulation. Those realizations are the reasons why the religious aspect of the 'Chrismas season' is so offensive to me. But I will refrain from that discussion in this thread.


Again, that is your belief. We should allow others their own beliefs. Not everyone sees things the same way and I don't think it's right to tell others what to believe. That is my opinion. If others think differently, then that is their beliefs.

I can only speak for myself and how I feel. I think we should show more tolerance to those that believe the same or different beliefs.

Redykeulous's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:08 PM

There is always someone who is offended by almost anything. There is a big difference in accommodating a minority and being terrorized by them.


So what is the difference called when a complicit minority accommodates the majority? You don't really think that's good will, do you? Or perhaps you thing that's tolerance?

In a majority situation, who do you think has the responsibility of being more tolerant?

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:11 PM
So if I say I'm offended with some trying to tell me how to celebrate, then those people should have to stop, right?

Wrong....they have the right to their opinions but that doesn't mean I'm going to give up my belief.

Respect goes both ways (I believe someone already said this)

Redykeulous's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:18 PM


See - this is what is so ironic. Chritians see this kind of action as 'support' for their views (ie. religion). Would they see it that way if they didn't feel so impressed by their own majority?

Can they not see how truely Pagan their splendiferous holiday has become? There was a very well thought out political reason for combining religious festivals - now for those who lament the disregard of 'tradition' - rest assured that the Pagan ones are alive and well - as so many in this thread have proven.

May Mithra be with you all as you enjoy your midwinter feasts and my the Yule tide bring you a renewed cycle of health and happiness.


Again....generalizations.



It's a Christian holiday. If Christians didn't celebrate it, it would not exist. Hense - Christians are the ones responsible for it's continuence. I did not say ALL Christians, but when it comes to Christmas it is ONLY a Christian celebration that stems from a Christian beleif. To say Christians implyies multiples not ALL.

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:23 PM



See - this is what is so ironic. Chritians see this kind of action as 'support' for their views (ie. religion). Would they see it that way if they didn't feel so impressed by their own majority?

Can they not see how truely Pagan their splendiferous holiday has become? There was a very well thought out political reason for combining religious festivals - now for those who lament the disregard of 'tradition' - rest assured that the Pagan ones are alive and well - as so many in this thread have proven.

May Mithra be with you all as you enjoy your midwinter feasts and my the Yule tide bring you a renewed cycle of health and happiness.


Again....generalizations.



It's a Christian holiday. If Christians didn't celebrate it, it would not exist. Hense - Christians are the ones responsible for it's continuence. I did not say ALL Christians, but when it comes to Christmas it is ONLY a Christian celebration that stems from a Christian beleif. To say Christians implyies multiples not ALL.


actually it doesn't. Saying Christian is a general statement.

There are many no Christians that celebrate Christmas. It has been posted many times in this topic alone.

Not all Christians celebrate it in a religious sense. Many non Christians celebrate it as well....just not in the religious sense.

So if someone wishes me a Blessed Yule, I should be offended? It can't be just against one belief when others do it as well.

Seems many are focusing on Christmas is the only holidays at this time when there are many holidays.....whether celebrated for fun or in a religious sense.

Redykeulous's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:26 PM



Its actually just as offensive to say Merry Christmas. Our offices here say Seasons Greetings. Fact is not all of us celebrate Christmas. I personally wouldn't put up a tree as I don't believe in killing trees. I also don't buy gifts either as I just don't believe in the commercialization of Christmas. I think you should be able to sit down with family and friends at Christmas with just a simple meal. There is no need for trees, lights, gifts, and the gluteny of over eating. Some how over the years; we seem to have forgotten how to celebrate a simple Chrismas without making it about money and silly decorations.


drinker

Just before I read your post I was thinking to myself - "I wonder what would happen if every store and every and Public area (not private - like homes) was completely void of any 'holiday' dressing and no Christmas music was piped in?"

Do you think the stores would see record decline in sales?


Yes, there would be a decline in sales as these decorations are like a subliminal commericals on tv; they make people want to buy. I have to laugh about how nice people are at Christmas when all I see is everyone swearing, flipping the bird, and getting in fights over parking spaces and gifts. Lets not forget the family violence and the high rate of suicides at this time of year. Yeah, makes me want to celebrate.....NOT!!!!


Well there you go, what better system of indoctrination could there possibly be for children, than a religuosly themed mass marketing scheme that is directed toward lots of goodies for good little girls and boys?

msharmony's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:28 PM
I agree with yellow, if others have an issue with well wishes, its their problem



there are times when pc goes too far,

mightymoe's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:38 PM
i'm offended that this bird crapped on my car....

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:40 PM

i'm offended that this bird crapped on my car....


me too.....we must get rid of the birds laugh

mightymoe's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:42 PM


i'm offended that this bird crapped on my car....


me too.....we must get rid of the birds laugh


i'll start a billboard...

Redykeulous's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:43 PM
Turn the tables....those who are offended by these things and want it to stop are infringing on the rights or beliefs of others.[/quotes]

One person's religious freedom STOPS when it infringes on the eqaul freedom of others.

If I want to see the many creative and festive dressings of the season, I feel as free to go to private residences and enjoy the view, as the person who had the freedom to express their religion in that manner.

That freedom is taken away from me when religious expression is allowed to permeate every PUBLIC area.

That is how offense is given and taken. It is not the privately held belief of individuals nor the the way that beleif is expressed in the private sector that is offensive. What is offensive is being forced to tolerate religious infringment in the nuetrality of common areas in which ALL of us are supposed to have equality.


So people don't have the right to celebrate except in private?
If someone is offended then that is their problem.

Again...what if I'm offended that others won't let people celebrate as they see fit? Wouldn't that mean (according to the argument) that those people should have to stop?

Someone will always be offended. Should we stop saying Good Morning because someone may or may not be a morning person?

Should people stop saying How are you today because that is violating someone's privacy?






yellowrose10's photo
Mon 12/06/10 10:43 PM

Well there you go, what better system of indoctrination could there possibly be for children, than a religuosly themed mass marketing scheme that is directed toward lots of goodies for good little girls and boys?


Why is only one belief being targeted? There are many different holiday celebrations. Christians aren't the only ones buying gifts laugh

Why not blame the stores???? They are the ones capitalizing one it.

My family spends more money on things like Toys for Tots and the Angel Tree than on our own family.

If a family can afford to spend on tons of toys for their kids....then so what? That is their choice. Not everyone does this though.