I think its much more complex than that. I think ABUSIVE homes turn children into abusive adults. A home where spanking is a mode of discipline is not by itself a clear indication of violence in a child. It is more the balance of positive vs negative enforcement. In a home where a child ONLY sees violence(not only through spanking but in the adult relationships as well) , violence is likely to become a norm in their life. In a home where the only'violence' is an occasional spanking and the normal atmosphere is one with education and positive reinforcements,, I doubt a child will turn violent. Its more about the BALANCE of things in a childs environment than it is any one factor on its own.

People that turn into angry abusive adults, are usually the ones that came from homes in which they weren't spanked, they were abused. People seem to keep mixing spanking your child with beating the tar out of them.

I was spanked, not often but if I deserved it, I got it. I only remember being spanked 3 times maybe 4 in my entire childhood. I am not an angry abusive adult. My sister on the other hand, has never been spanked (thanks to dss), she treats my mother like crap, never listened, broke the rules constantly...the final straw for me was walking in just as my sister called my mom an f---ing b---h and hitting her, hard. Within seconds I had ahold of her.

My mom tried all the punishments that people have suggested, taking things away, loss of priviledges, groundation, time outs...my sister didnt care, she would do what she wanted. My mom had to resort to calling me to come deal with her, since she didnt know what else to do. Don't worry, I didn't hit her as I do not believe in hitting people (yeah I was spanked and I don't believe in hitting people, shocked?) but I did put the fear of me into her.

My middle sister has disowned the youngest sister and wants nothing to do with her, so while my youngest sister was never spanked, she has lost alot more than a simple spanking.

I got spanked when I was a kid and I'll never forgive my mom for it. Although my issues would probably fall under abuse.

My kids were never spanked. I threatened them a few times but they were never spanked. They turned out better than I did. My twin daughters went to law school and my son was accepted to MIT before he even finished High School. However a drunk driver cut 2 of their lives drastically short. My surviving daughter (err, son was adopted and daughters were step daughters) is now a prosecutor for the DAs office.

The problem with spanking is one persons idea of abuse, is just every day spankings to another. In my case, being hit with anything in reach just because I walked in front of the TV or not doing the dishes fast enough so I could go see Haleys Comet was abuse. Then again I'm sure some of you would probably think I deserved it and that's fine, you deserve to let me bash your head in with a bat. ,,, Did I just say that out loud...

Anyway, I've read studies going both ways by dozens of parenting groups, what the OP posted isn't the only studies that have ever been done and it's been shown several times over that it's not the spanking or lack of spanking that teaches a kid, it's the parent taking the time out to be a parent to their kid instead of just sitting them down in front of the ****ing tv or computer and forgetting they exist.

Thats why I feel like I excelled with my kids, we always did things as a family, we sat down EVERY NIGHT for dinner even when I was working 70 hours a week. Sitting down every night, and have a meal with the family without any distractions, talking about the day without getting pissy about bad grades, or coming home late or whatever can and does work wonders.

Spending real time with your kids as friends goes a long ways. And yes, you can be friends with your kids. They WILL be more likely to come to you with problems if they honestly believe you won't freak out over it. And don't freak out if they do come to you, talk to them. Yelling never solves anything.

I told my twin daughters I didn't approve of them having sex, HOWEVER if they were going to please use protection and that I'd even buy it if they wanted with no questions asked. They knew it was ok to talk to me without me going off the deep end.

Common courtesy and remembering that your child is a person with a mind of their own goes a long ways.

Spanking or not spanking is a moot point.

You hit the nail on the head as far as spending time being more an issue than spanking or no spanking.

hit 'em with books. they'll be disciplined and smarter.


. . .

lol, I got the hand(probably hurt them more than me), or a belt, or a switch,,,,all on the well padded behind. I actually was one of the smarter and better behaved kids though,,,,,makes ya wonder,,lol

oh you didnt mean LITERALLY hit them with books,,, my bad(haaa)

I dunno. I got my azz whipped on many, MANY occasions. Almost daily.

I was tested a few years ago, and although I won't toot my own horn and actually post what my IQ is/was, I will say it was considerably higher than anyone else in my family except for my brother who was only a couple of points off from me.

He took almost as many beatings as I did, so in our case, I don't think it did anything to harm our intelligence.

In my case, I must differ with you.

As I have said before...I took regular beatings for just about any minor offense.

It did not turn me into an abusive parent. If anything, it made me EXTREMELY reluctant to actually spank my daughter.

She was with me up until she was ten years old and she was spanked a grand total of four times. Each time by me. Her mother left the discipline to me. Most times, all I had to do to let my daughter know she was in trouble was to say her name a certain way. I never used time out with her because I saw so many other parents doing it and saw it had NO effect on the child's behavior. I KNEW that it wouldn't work on my daughter because, if I were to try something like that, it wouldn't have bothered her in the slightest because she had an extremely active imagination and could easily amuse herself for the time she was supposed to be in " time out ".

My daughter knew very well that once it got to the point where I told her that the next offense ( and it wasn't random things. I only did it when she repeated an offense she had already been warned about multiple times ) would cause a spanking, I meant exactly what I said and she ALWAYS, except for those four times, stopped doing whatever it was that she had been doing.

i remember when i was younger i was spanked a few times and after i was my perents told me why i was just spanked and i turn out just fine and in school i did very good, so if i would have kids of my own some day i think i would spank them but not when i was mad at them, and after they got spank i would tell them why they was spanked for,

my parents set the boundaries BEFORE and reminded me again AFTER, but I totally agree with you

That's a pretty big generalization there.... Someone abused could just as easily be so turned off by it, that they could be totally against abuse...

My dad used to spank me... he wasnt home too much because he was military but when he was home I remember more spankings than anything. one time I remember a fist in the face. My parents got divorced when I was ten. My mom hit me three times. My dad was born and raised in the states and my mom in Germany. Parenting in Germany is nothing like in the states.
Anyways...

It took me a long time to forgive my dad. I was afraid of him for a very long time. I never knew why I was spanked or why he would call me names. I still dont know but I have seen him after deployments as an adult so I understand better now.

For me, spanking just made me scared. I still did what I wanted to do. I was and always will be stubborn. I now have a son of my own and he is in the terrible twos, which I have to say arent that bad.

Ive spanked my son two or three times when he was totally out of hand... I counted to three first, gave him a chance to make the right choice. Now I count to ONE and he stops what he is doing. He learned real fast and im glad about that because I hated spanking him.

I guess Im lucky because when he is bad I dont have to send him to time out or anything. He knows he needs to stay away from mommy when she is mad so he will say sorry and go to his room until I call him out.

I have a friend who spanks her kid everyday. I tell her there have got to be other ways to get her girl to listen but from what Ive seen nothing works... and the spankings dont either (which makes me wonder why the hell she is still doing it?)

Everyone has their own idea of what is discplining and what is abuse and every child reacts different.

My son learned from it and listens really good for his age whereas my friends five year old doesnt give a damn and still acts like a pain in the ***. ( To be very blunt about it)

The way I see it. Im not FOR spanking a child but if it needs to be done to teach them a lesson and it works then hey.... you do what you gotta do. Just dont do it every time they are "bad".

Someone made a statement about children growing up in abusive households becoming abusive adults. Im sure there are people who grow up and follow their parents footsteps but Ive met alot of people who have been molested, raped, abused, locked up as children and they are very loving people. The fact they have been through so much physical and emotional abuse made them want to do better for their children.

I dont think spanking or a light pop upside the head is abuse. If the child understands this form of discipline and it works than its ok.

Oh... I am a (mostly)happy adult and have an high IQ... so I dont think my being spanked or not has nothing to do with that. Just a late sumthin sumthin to throw out there since Im ranting over here. LOL

The closest verse like it is Proverbs 13:24 which reads, "Those who spare the rod, hate their children, but the one who loves their child disciplines them diligently." The question is, what was the use of the rod, and is it a directive or a metaphor?

Keep in mind it used to be quite legal to hit your wife with a stick as long as it was no bigger than your largest finger.

So,, I'm sure you get what I'm getting at.


Discipline doesn't mean hitting.

Hitting and spanking are two totally different things- this is where talking to your kids and beginning that communication very early in childhood. You cant wait to start disciplining them when they are 12

I tell my sons raising their kids that they need to love their children but the kids need to know who is in charge. They need to feel safe.

Make it clear what the rules are and what warrants a spanking. Pick your battles. I always talked to my kids before and after- and they could usually tell me when they were getting that brand of discipline
because they knew they had broken the rules.

I think our youth are misguided alot of times by not spanking.
There are no consequences to their actions and if there are they arent taught to think about them. I was spanked- and really hated the process but it really taught me to think before acting. It kept me from going astray. Never was in trouble with the law and neither were any of my kids.

i think it can be positive. it teaches people that there are PAINFUL consequences for misbehavior. none of this time out b.s.
that's one of the reasons there are so many criminals out there. the punishments aren't hard enough.

personally, i don't want to get reamed in jail. but i guess there are some that aren't afraid of that and need more severe deterrents.


. . .

i believe in natural consequences and consistent discipline. at no time would i ever raise a hand to my children. i can't strike an adult, so why can i strike someone who can't defend themselves?

i think it's the consistency that matters the most. it's also letting the child know ahead of time what's acceptable behavior and what is not. it's also being involved...spending time with the kids.

i was only spanked a few times in my life before my mother became a psychologist and quit that. i still feel...a sense of anger over it, however. the fact that someone could put their hands on me without my consent...just goes all over me.

there are also studies that show correlation between women who were spanked and domestic violence as adults.

IM curious what are NATURAL consequences for a four or five year old who yells or hits or flat out refuses to respect what they have been told? I agree though that consistency is the key,, say what you mean and mean what you say and kids will learn they can depend on you which will do quite a bit to strengthen their bond with you and teach them to be similarly dependable adults.

Time-outs and take privileges and toys away.

thats still not NATURAL though, it involves someone taking some action. When I think of natural consequence, I think of standing on train tracks and being hit by a TRAIN..an action that would naturally occur if no other action is taken,,,

BTW , I agree with timeo ut and taking things away too ,when it works.

Would not have worked with me because I could entertain myself for HOURS alone with nothing but my imagination. And when I wasnt doing that, I was one who THOROUGHLY enjoyed sleeping and dreaming.

Spanking was the BEST technique my folks could have used for me. But discipline is not a one size fits all.