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| Topic: forgive? | |
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Turning the other cheek, how much forgiveness do you have in you? if given the opportunity can you forgive mass murders? Rapist? criminals of even the most heinous crime? or is there a capacity on forgiveness, should those who seek it be forgiven? if some one proclaimed their sins to you as a human to another human with all dogmatic factors aside, can you forgive without religious principles? forgiveness is bullcrap. a person asks for forgiveness selfishly. forgiveness only benifits the offender. it lets him off the hook in a sense for his wrong doing which often lessens the harmful impact in his mind that his offense has caused the victim. when someone says they are sorry to me i thank them for the appology and acknowledge his/her courage in admitting the mistake. then i let them know if it doesn't happen again we'll have no further problem. when thinking about forgiveness i cannot help but think about the wife beater who keeps asking and receiving forgiveness from his wife and continues the beating. when he finally puts her in intensive care and gets hauled to jail he says, "well if she'd quit pissing me off i wouldn't beat her". forgiving sucks. consequences matter. Is forgiveness bull crap for those of us who offer it without being asked? maybe worse. offer it without the perpetrator asking and you diminish the consequences of his offence even further. further remove the deterance for a repeat offence. he/she simply doesn't feel as bad for what he's done to you. he's even rewarded by removing the need to humble himself and ask forgiveness. his humiliating shame is lessened. what is forgiveness if not a pardon? a crime against my moral compass is no less a crime than a crime against society's laws. it's more and more common in america that people come to the realization that there are few consequences for their actions whether it be illegal immigration, teen pregnancy, date rape, spousal abuse, insulting friends or whatever. i cannot help but think that this lack of appreciation for concequences for commiting harm to others doesn't begin with having continuously been forgiven from an early age. I don't have to be a victim, or know someone to offer them silent forgiveness. It does not take away their consequences.. There is a consequence regardless...you can never hurt another human without harming yourself in one way or another. |
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Turning the other cheek, how much forgiveness do you have in you? if given the opportunity can you forgive mass murders? Rapist? criminals of even the most heinous crime? or is there a capacity on forgiveness, should those who seek it be forgiven? if some one proclaimed their sins to you as a human to another human with all dogmatic factors aside, can you forgive without religious principles? forgiveness is bullcrap. a person asks for forgiveness selfishly. forgiveness only benifits the offender. it lets him off the hook in a sense for his wrong doing which often lessens the harmful impact in his mind that his offense has caused the victim. when someone says they are sorry to me i thank them for the appology and acknowledge his/her courage in admitting the mistake. then i let them know if it doesn't happen again we'll have no further problem. when thinking about forgiveness i cannot help but think about the wife beater who keeps asking and receiving forgiveness from his wife and continues the beating. when he finally puts her in intensive care and gets hauled to jail he says, "well if she'd quit pissing me off i wouldn't beat her". forgiving sucks. consequences matter. Is forgiveness bull crap for those of us who offer it without being asked? maybe worse. offer it without the perpetrator asking and you diminish the consequences of his offence even further. further remove the deterance for a repeat offence. he/she simply doesn't feel as bad for what he's done to you. he's even rewarded by removing the need to humble himself and ask forgiveness. his humiliating shame is lessened. what is forgiveness if not a pardon? a crime against my moral compass is no less a crime than a crime against society's laws. it's more and more common in america that people come to the realization that there are few consequences for their actions whether it be illegal immigration, teen pregnancy, date rape, spousal abuse, insulting friends or whatever. i cannot help but think that this lack of appreciation for concequences for commiting harm to others doesn't begin with having continuously been forgiven from an early age. I don't have to be a victim, or know someone to offer them silent forgiveness. It does not take away their consequences.. There is a consequence regardless...you can never hurt another human without harming yourself in one way or another. couldn't agree more as regards harming myself by harming others. and forgiveness of others without them knowing they've been forgivin does not take away their consequences i also agree. i'll likewise agree that many feel that forgiving helps the forgiver. it simply does nothing for me. but what exacly is it that you do when you forgive somebody and nobody but you knows you did it? does it mean that you no longer resent the offense that the person commited? a real life example; i made a comment to you once that you found offensive. i paid the consequences for my offense by losing you as a potential friend. i've been remorseful ever since. you are owed an appology but frankly i did not think you'd accept a chat request. can't blame you. i'd not ask your forgiveness because that would not undue the offensive remark. i accept the consequences for my action and am sorry for any harm i caused you. however, a week or so ago you brought up this offense in another forum indicating to me that you still resent my making the the comment. perhaps you've silently forgiven me, i wouldn't know obviously, but here's my question. if you have forgiven me and i don't know about it, who benefited from your forgiveness. certainly not me, i've still lost a friendship no matter how short lived. and if i'm correct in sensing your continued resentment of a week ago, then forgiving me did not get rid of the resentment. whether or not you've forgiven me, let's hypothetically say that you have. or perhaps that we are talking about two ficticious people in the same circumstance. who has gained by forgiveness and how have they gained? i'll accept that you might someday pardon my action and accept me back as a friend. we pardon criminals often and they are released from their punnishment. and sometimes before they're even charged with the crime. likewise you will have lessened the impact of my consequences that i've paid and have indicated to me that you wish me no further harm. additionally i have learned something about you and what you find offensive and you've rewarded my humility by offering your friendship. but i also learned, or should have at any rate, that if i make such comments in the future that i can fairly expect to pay even more severe consequecnces. so if i'm smart, smarter than i was when we first talked anyway, i'll restrain such comments at all cost. now everybody benefits and nobody was forgiven. |
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Forgiveness consists of two parts ... saying it and acting it.
Saying it is the easy part. Living (meaning) it is the hard part. There are limits to what we as humans can forgive, but with God's help anything is possible. |
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well that's what you're suppose to do very few of us (actually none) are "good" christians in reality its pretty difficult if you loan someone $20 and they never pay it back, you're suppose to forgive it and give it to them freely but in reality we go find em and beat the crap out of em and get our money back it shouldn't be hard to be a good Christian ...all one has to do is obey God abide by the commandments and follow all the teachings of Jesus and of course give 10 percent of their income to the church a Christian beating the crap out of someone for $20 may be ok if the money was supposed to be used for tithes or perhaps to purchase some cold beers .. but either way as a christian all one has to do if they commit a crime against another is fall to your knees raise their hands and head towards the Heavens and ask God for forgiveness that way they don't have to worry about seeking forgiveness from the person they may have wronged |
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well that's what you're suppose to do very few of us (actually none) are "good" christians in reality its pretty difficult if you loan someone $20 and they never pay it back, you're suppose to forgive it and give it to them freely but in reality we go find em and beat the crap out of em and get our money back it shouldn't be hard to be a good Christian ...all one has to do is obey God abide by the commandments and follow all the teachings of Jesus and of course give 10 percent of their income to the church a Christian beating the crap out of someone for $20 may be ok if the money was supposed to be used for tithes or perhaps to purchase some cold beers .. but either way as a christian all one has to do if they commit a crime against another is fall to your knees raise their hands and head towards the Heavens and ask God for forgiveness that way they don't have to worry about seeking forgiveness from the person they may have wronged I happen to agree. The offender needs forgiveness from God. Forgiveness from the offended, however, is a harmless step on the way to God. |
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well that's what you're suppose to do very few of us (actually none) are "good" christians in reality its pretty difficult if you loan someone $20 and they never pay it back, you're suppose to forgive it and give it to them freely but in reality we go find em and beat the crap out of em and get our money back it shouldn't be hard to be a good Christian ...all one has to do is obey God abide by the commandments and follow all the teachings of Jesus and of course give 10 percent of their income to the church a Christian beating the crap out of someone for $20 may be ok if the money was supposed to be used for tithes or perhaps to purchase some cold beers .. but either way as a christian all one has to do if they commit a crime against another is fall to your knees raise their hands and head towards the Heavens and ask God for forgiveness that way they don't have to worry about seeking forgiveness from the person they may have wronged I happen to agree. The offender needs forgiveness from God. Forgiveness from the offended, however, is a harmless step on the way to God. the offense that the offender perpetrated against the offend-ee would not have taken place if not for the grace of God and therefore was all part of God's Divine Plan.... that is why no matter what a Christian does or how heinous the crime they will be forgiven as long as the offender accept Jesus as their lord and savior |
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well that's what you're suppose to do very few of us (actually none) are "good" christians in reality its pretty difficult if you loan someone $20 and they never pay it back, you're suppose to forgive it and give it to them freely but in reality we go find em and beat the crap out of em and get our money back it shouldn't be hard to be a good Christian ...all one has to do is obey God abide by the commandments and follow all the teachings of Jesus and of course give 10 percent of their income to the church a Christian beating the crap out of someone for $20 may be ok if the money was supposed to be used for tithes or perhaps to purchase some cold beers .. but either way as a christian all one has to do if they commit a crime against another is fall to your knees raise their hands and head towards the Heavens and ask God for forgiveness that way they don't have to worry about seeking forgiveness from the person they may have wronged I happen to agree. The offender needs forgiveness from God. Forgiveness from the offended, however, is a harmless step on the way to God. the offense that the offender perpetrated against the offend-ee would not have taken place if not for the grace of God and therefore was all part of God's Divine Plan.... that is why no matter what a Christian does or how heinous the crime they will be forgiven as long as the offender accept Jesus as their lord and savior but with asking forgiveness it has to be truely asking for forgiveness. Not just say please forgive me blah blah blah so that person will have that taken off there slate. And you can not commit something sinful in knowing you'll just ask for forgiveness afterwards and be forgiven. If that is done then asking for forgiveness is in vein and you don't truely meen it. |
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well that's what you're suppose to do very few of us (actually none) are "good" christians in reality its pretty difficult... it shouldn't be hard to be a good Christian ...all one has to do is obey God abide by the commandments and follow all the teachings of Jesus and of course give 10 percent of their income to the church... I happen to agree. The offender needs forgiveness from God. Forgiveness from the offended, however, is a harmless step on the way to God. the offense that the offender perpetrated against the offend-ee would not have taken place if not for the grace of God and therefore was all part of God's Divine Plan.... that is why no matter what a Christian does or how heinous the crime they will be forgiven as long as the offender accept Jesus as their lord and savior but with asking forgiveness it has to be truly asking for forgiveness. Not just say please forgive me blah blah blah so that person will have that taken off there slate. And you can not commit something sinful in knowing you'll just ask for forgiveness afterward and be forgiven. If that is done then asking for forgiveness is in vein and you don't truly mean it. The interesting idea you put forth at the end here, seems to say (to me anyway) that only Christians who don't know enough about Christianity to understand that Jesus will truly forgive all their sins with his sacrifice, can truly attain the forgiveness in question? That if you know that it's that easy, then you can't get it because if knowing that you asked, then you didn't really mean to be forgiven? |
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well that's what you're suppose to do very few of us (actually none) are "good" christians in reality its pretty difficult if you loan someone $20 and they never pay it back, you're suppose to forgive it and give it to them freely but in reality we go find em and beat the crap out of em and get our money back it shouldn't be hard to be a good Christian ...all one has to do is obey God abide by the commandments and follow all the teachings of Jesus and of course give 10 percent of their income to the church a Christian beating the crap out of someone for $20 may be ok if the money was supposed to be used for tithes or perhaps to purchase some cold beers .. but either way as a christian all one has to do if they commit a crime against another is fall to your knees raise their hands and head towards the Heavens and ask God for forgiveness that way they don't have to worry about seeking forgiveness from the person they may have wronged I happen to agree. The offender needs forgiveness from God. Forgiveness from the offended, however, is a harmless step on the way to God. the offense that the offender perpetrated against the offend-ee would not have taken place if not for the grace of God and therefore was all part of God's Divine Plan.... that is why no matter what a Christian does or how heinous the crime they will be forgiven as long as the offender accept Jesus as their lord and savior Huh, what world do you live in? We are a nation of laws...man's laws not god's laws, some may be the same...e.g. theft, murder..etc and sure you may believe in 'forgiveness' but that does not dimiss them paying for their crimes as society dictates. I have a Christian friend who frequently visits a woman in prison whose DUI caused the death of a couple and their 3 year old child, she keeps saying that this woman should be let out of prison because "she's been forgiven"...phuck that, let her rot in prison. Do the crime do the time. |
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I forgive small things but never forgive serious things .
God or nature created nuts and morons and I have to live with them....  .
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Edited by
Milesoftheusa
on
Sun 11/29/09 10:43 AM
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Yahshua was/is the Lamb of Yahweh.
Matt 5:46-6:1 6 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect , just as your Father in heaven is perfect . Remember this and all will go well. He was accused of associating with sinners and yet he was perfect . He is our example we are to follow as his perfectness is Yahweh's perfectness. These words describe how Yahshua's mind set was/is. Blessings..Miles |
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from the sounds of it nobody like turning to that other cheek huh?
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well that's what you're suppose to do very few of us (actually none) are "good" christians in reality its pretty difficult if you loan someone $20 and they never pay it back, you're suppose to forgive it and give it to them freely but in reality we go find em and beat the crap out of em and get our money back it shouldn't be hard to be a good Christian ...all one has to do is obey God abide by the commandments and follow all the teachings of Jesus and of course give 10 percent of their income to the church a Christian beating the crap out of someone for $20 may be ok if the money was supposed to be used for tithes or perhaps to purchase some cold beers .. but either way as a christian all one has to do if they commit a crime against another is fall to your knees raise their hands and head towards the Heavens and ask God for forgiveness that way they don't have to worry about seeking forgiveness from the person they may have wronged I happen to agree. The offender needs forgiveness from God. Forgiveness from the offended, however, is a harmless step on the way to God. the offense that the offender perpetrated against the offend-ee would not have taken place if not for the grace of God and therefore was all part of God's Divine Plan.... that is why no matter what a Christian does or how heinous the crime they will be forgiven as long as the offender accept Jesus as their lord and savior Huh, what world do you live in? We are a nation of laws...man's laws not god's laws, some may be the same...e.g. theft, murder..etc and sure you may believe in 'forgiveness' but that does not dimiss them paying for their crimes as society dictates. I have a Christian friend who frequently visits a woman in prison whose DUI caused the death of a couple and their 3 year old child, she keeps saying that this woman should be let out of prison because "she's been forgiven"...phuck that, let her rot in prison. Do the crime do the time. I was referring to forgiveness by God.... not necessarily society.... |
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... I view forgiveness as a supernatural quality that we as if 'pray down' and renew upon each reawakening day!
Forgiveness does more for the forgiver than the forgiven ... clears that psychic poisonous toxicity to the spirit that trickles down into the body and manifests 'dis~ease'! Still, the mammal in us is programmed not to ever forget bein' burned for survival sake ... So, the two make it as if constantly swimmin' against the current, hence the daily renewal thereof ... In the Hebrew there is a great ole sayin' ... sad, BUT true ... "How can ya bury a hatchet that ya can still see?" Tricky at best! |
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Edited by
zunelander
on
Fri 01/01/10 06:54 PM
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Turning the other cheek, how much forgiveness do you have in you? if given the opportunity can you forgive mass murders? Rapist? criminals of even the most heinous crime? or is there a capacity on forgiveness, should those who seek it be forgiven? if some one proclaimed their sins to you as a human to another human with all dogmatic factors aside, can you forgive without religious principles? It's rather difficult to ask if someone can forgive without religious principles. Especially, if those religious principles are already instilled in a person. To answer your question, yes, it's easy for me, personally, to forgive becasue believing that our sins were forgiven by God through Jesus makes it easy for me. However, that's just me:) http://thejourneyofjimmie.blogspot.com/ |
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I think forgiveness is a cheesy way to get out of something. I don't believe in forgiveness, and I don't forget. what do you mean by cheesy? for example if you broke my cup and i forgave you, is that cheesy? or should i call forth the might of a thousand army to wage an endless war of vengeance, fueled by the blood of our linage. to me that sounds more cheesy :P, but to be consistent i think we should steer clear of the "well.. it depends on what they did", regardless of the degree, compassion shouldn't be measurable. i personally i have a friend who stole from, who, as much i want to forgive, but just can't bring my self to do. It's a shame your friend stole but it's more of a shame that you would lose a friend because he/she made a mistake. I think this is only true if that person is sorry and has tried to change. People can and do change, we have to allow our perceptions of them to change with them. Hope this helps. |
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My purse was stolen from me earlier today. I was upset at first, but soon changed my outlook to imagine that perhaps this person was in dire need. It was still not ok for them to steal and I hope the police find them but I have already forgiven and let go of the anger and stress I first felt.
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My purse was stolen from me earlier today. I was upset at first, but soon changed my outlook to imagine that perhaps this person was in dire need. It was still not ok for them to steal and I hope the police find them but I have already forgiven and let go of the anger and stress I first felt. I have never felt the power of hate,,,,long.... 
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My purse was stolen from me earlier today. I was upset at first, but soon changed my outlook to imagine that perhaps this person was in dire need. It was still not ok for them to steal and I hope the police find them but I have already forgiven and let go of the anger and stress I first felt. I have never felt the power of hate,,,,long.... thats good, hate kills(directly and indirectly). I cried at first, its my moms seventieth birthday and I was starting my shopping for party supplies and gifts for her party,,,but the store was kind enough to give me the birthday cake at no charge..... |
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My purse was stolen from me earlier today. I was upset at first, but soon changed my outlook to imagine that perhaps this person was in dire need. It was still not ok for them to steal and I hope the police find them but I have already forgiven and let go of the anger and stress I first felt. My condolences. Personally, I think thieves should be beaten to death. This was cause 2 things that would benefit society. 1. The threat of being beaten to death would be a great incentive to not steal. 2. You'd eventually run out of thieves to stupid to get the message. The "dire need" this "person" had was probably for illicit drugs or some other nefarious need. I would venture to say most thieves steal because they wish to continue their bad life choices, not for anything noble or necessary like wanting to get food. |
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