Where have you been . corruption didn't just start lately .businesses may of been smaller and there bribs smaller but they were payed .
They may not call them bribes . but when you are paid to do something and you do it and its against the law its a bribe . Ask JOHN KERRY SENATOR , He got 19,000,000. for letting the banks do it to us . and there is a long list of demos with different sums given to them by banks . but of course the republicians are the same .
I would vote for a law that says it an automatic death sentence for the to recive any money or favoers from any one or corp. that they pass laws on . it won't stop the bribes but maybe slow it down .

If you ban contributions you will have no one but the wealthy in power. How is that going to solve anything?

for years I've been saying we need a fourth branch to balance the other three

it would be

The Executive Branch

The Legislative Branch

The Judicial Branch

and the Audit Branch

what do you mean by cheesy? for example if you broke my cup and i forgave you, is that cheesy? or should i call forth the might of a thousand army to wage an endless war of vengeance, fueled by the blood of our linage. to me that sounds more cheesy :P, but to be consistent i think we should steer clear of the "well.. it depends on what they did", regardless of the degree, compassion shouldn't be measurable. i personally i have a friend who stole from, who, as much i want to forgive, but just can't bring my self to do.

Ok, update concerning the op.
It has turned into a free for all verbal brawl! How do we always get to that point? What can I do to prevent people from trying to throw me infront of fast moving trains so to speak. See, im stuck, because theres so much I would like toshare and talk about, but it seems like I cant say anything without offending anyone no matter how hard I try lol. I even tried not trying to see if it would have the opposite effect, it didnt work.
Its just a shame, theres so many great ideas and perspectives on this thread alone, but we cant explore them for fear of getting hit in the cross fire!

Jane, Ill be completely honest. The thing that gets me the most about you is that I KNOW you are intelligent and capable of givin me some great insight, but all you tell me is that im wrong, ever. I never ment to get on your bad side, Im not sure how that happened. So ill just drop it and move on. I dont hold anything against you, hopefully you feel the same.

Voileazer, I didnt agree with all of it, but I liked your train of thought on perception and existence. I wish we could have explored that more. No hard feelings


Who else did I tick off?...


Oh, message. That one was a disapointer, because shes one of my favorites, It was just poor word choice that got me into that one. But even still, It seems like if i disagree, Im imediatly condemed. Im a math major!! Math says it uses arythmatic in any and all math, Id love to discuss that but she refused.

Its...mind boggling. So I thought, If I set some rules like be nice play fair, mabey Ill have a chance to hear everything and talk about it..but no, I got attacked by half the people in here for asking everyone to be respectful!

I know Im not perfect, Im young and I dont have all the answers, But give me a break!

Thoughts anyone?

Sorry, Daniel, what kind of a compliment are you talking about???
Do you mean the following?

Sorry, man, I thought you could comprehend the sarcasm!!!
(that's what a [ ] is for...)

Anyways, if you think you got to me, I think voileazur got both of you much better!!!

voileazur:
Excellent point, mon amour, "merci baku"!!! {pardon my French}
Actually, that isn't really what I found objectional, but the host's ridiculous manner of misinterpreting my posts and arguing against those misperceptions... (and, afterwards, admitting his mistake and begging for my forgiveness!!!)

As for the rest of your post (part I), I'm really glad you rubbed Daniel's nose off with his attempt of overpowering me with his impeccable command of English language!!! (he seems to be observing the Style while forgetting about Logic!)

Though, I have no right of criticizing the host of the thread. Therefore I respectfully bow out! (and hope he will not follow me to other threads...)

P.S. I hope the "host" would heed to "his own" advise (which he, obviously, copied from somewhere):

This is a tragedy.

It has destroyed the poorest nation in our hemisphere.

I can't see the need for pushing a conspiracy theory at this particular moment.

I really don't get this stuff..

It would be completely illogical and useless to unleash any sort of artificial catastrophy to an already poverty struck nation which has little or no interference into any political conflict currently taking place on this god forsaken planet.

Not to mention the amount of financial strain it introduces anyway in an economically challenged world, this earthquake as absolutely zero advantage to anyone.

I would be more suspicious of foul play (about 1% suspicion) if the earthquake would have struck a place which is not located on a faulty line (like hmmmm..Haiti..duh!) or a geologically unstable place and plays a major role in today's energy policy.

Now..take this as even if there is an earthquake device and the world has gone completely insane, including all nations and humans on this planet.

PEOPLE ARE STUPID! PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IN A LIE, A MISCONCEPTION, A WARPED TWISTED TRUTH, ANYTHING JUST TO FEEL A SENCE OF PURPOSE! PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE SMART AND CAPABLE OF SEEING THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS, AND THAT MAKES THEM SO MUCH EASIER TO FOOL. THE TRUTH IS HARD TO SELL, ITS JUST THE TRUTH...IF YOU ARE NOT OPENMINDED AND OBJECTIVE, YOU ARE NOT IMPERVIOUS TO THIS FACT, AND MORE THAN LIKELY, AD LEAST ONE OF YOUR BELIFES IS AN PRODUCT OF SOEMONE ELSES PERSUASION AND INFLUENCE. THINK FOR YOUR SELF

Heres another secret;


DIVERSETY IN PERSPECTIVE IS ESSENTIAL TO FINDING THE WHOLE TRUTH! PEOPLE WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW THAN YOU, AND THATS OK! THATS HOW ITS MENT TO BE! SHORT OF THEM CALLING YOU A LOOSER AND LOOSING ALL CREADIBILITY BY DOING SO, HEAR THEM OUT YOU MIGHT LEARN A THING OR TWO!


Wew, I feel better. Again, Im not attacking anyone in general, Im admonishing the human race as a whole. When we all truly learn to be objective, I think we will finally move out of these dark ages we have been in the last 20 000 years or so, (In terms of the masses being manipulated by a few individuals for what ever reason) Hell, mabey thats not even possible.

Daniel wrote above:

'...If, God forbid, all of the beings that make up your consensus of reality are wiped out what is reality then? Is it any more or less real? Is its simple truth any different?...'

Daniel, you seem to propose a premise from which we can only deduct that as far as you are concerned, there is a 'reality' out there, independent of human beings' ability to fully access it. As though 'reality' EXISTED, and humanity is trying to uncover more and more of it.

Nothing in science, philosophy, psychology, neurology, much less theology or religion allows us to establish such premise.

It leaves us with our personal sense of conviction, mixed with the seriously faulted inherited myth that 'there is a reality out there'.

From everything that we can observe, reality is 100% man made. From the world of neuro-science, we've learned that the neo-cortex, our thinking, rationalizing, and so-called conscious piece of brain equipment, is 100% made-up of mimicking neurons, a feature we (humans) share with all primates.

The only difference between humans and other primates, is nothing other than a natural evolutionary ACCIDENT. Humans have billions more mimicking neurons than any other primates. This accidental phenomenon gives humans the unique 'ILLUSION-MAKING' context of 'SELF-AWARENESS'!!!

We, humans, are by default of nature, first and foremost SELF-AWARE beings, through a complex web of 'real' illusions. Of course WE are not ready to face the fact that it could be as INSIGNIFICANT AS THAT!!! But it is.

Our fundamental, inescapable and perpetual job in life, our 'job' of 'existing', is nothing other than convincing ourselves that we exist, without ever realizing that that is what is going on!!!

Over several million years of experiencing (DNA), we have built a rather rich dialectic 'code' of existence. A very rich web of languaging, symbols and master 'meanings' with which we all agree: this is the underlying overwhelming human 'consensus' I think 'Jane1' referred to earlier.

That consensus IS our only 'reality' !!! Nothing out there other than what we can name, give meaning to, and all agree with. The 'reality' if it is, IS WITHIN!!! ... NOT OUT THERE!!!

If 'god' (as though that existed!) had wiped out humans and their then consensus that the earth was FLAT, and was THE CENTER OT THE UNIVERSE, are you suggesting that that would have had anything to do with a reality other than man-made?!?!?

That's what was 'really' real for humans back then. They killed those whom didn't agree!!! Are you suggesting that just because it happens to be 'our generation', that OUR REALITY today is more real??? Are you suggesting nothing other than there would be this unknown 'thinking' out there, other than 'humans', that would oppose ITS reality against against ours???

I think the next breakthrough humans have yet to make collectively, is to move our ability to think beyond this circular, neo-cortex given, 'self-centric' exclusive, human paradigm.

This 'truth', this 'reality', this 'god of gods', this 'place' OUT THERE that holds it all!!! ... is part of the cheap, limiting, and delusional paradox we keep holding as 'reality', when in fact, all leads us to observe there is nothing other then OUR REALITY!!!

Daniel0021:

>>>> An Absolute Truth: REALITY is nothing more than a CONSESUS!!!... i.e. based upon the way we define things (that, in turn, depend upon the degree of our sophistication...)

Obviously, I'm not referring to anything physical (like a rock)! But any/all of our psychological notions (i.e. matters that depend upon the way we define them -- Good/Evil, Love/Hate, etc.) MOST DEFINITELY ARE RELATIVE!!!

.................... REMEMBER:

PERCEPTION OF REALITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN REALITY ITSELF!!!

Outside influences? What is outside? Outside of what? The body? The self? What is the self?

Of course there are 'influences.' Those influences are experiences.

The only way to "define" the self is with the exclamation "I am."

The brain is the machine. It is not the self. The self is the one that decides. The brain simply processes data. The self manifested the brain for its own purpose. The brain is a tool.

I am not a "brain."

That is the question, for some.

I most definatly agree with your views on "its all relative"(if im interpreting it right). I agree, it is all relative, but its also all distinct. Distinction is the missing peice of the puzzle. That rock may be made up information just as we are,(info in terms of physics) but it is still a rock and we are still human. There is a clear distinction. To make any conclusion on this topic based soley on relativity is most definatly a hasty generalization.

Complicate it all you want, but the simple truth is.... God is Love.

If you are making a 'free' and conscious choice then you do so 'freely'.

In this discussion, because in necessarily involves the difference between being 'free' and being 'determined' I suggest the following definition, because it is so aptly worded.

Free equals not being determined by anything beyond its own nature or being...

Now if we are talking about the will, in order for it to be considered 'free' it must not be determined by anything else beyond it's own nature or being. Now what is the will? I suggest that no matter how one defines the will, as long as it has some form of meaningful coherency, it is always driven by what that person wants.

Because a person cannot intentionally make a mistake, the above must be true.

1.)Willful choices are necessarily deliberate ones, and therefore must be made on purpose.

2.)There is no such a thing as a mistake made on purpose.

3.)Therefore, all deliberate(willful) choices are made based upon what the person thinks is the 'best' choice according to the circumstances being regarded in thought and such a choice is necessarily determined by what the individual wants, because one cannot make a mistake on purpose.

That establishes sufficient reason to conclude that the will is necessarily dependent upon and reflected by what one wants.

That's where you're Wrong!!! BECAUSE THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH -- since everything's relative...