Spider I realize you are talking to JB but for me, what you consider "bashing your beliefs" is me reciting HISTORICALLY ACCURATE information. Any one of us could look this up online or go to a pubic library and find the same or similar points of reference.

INDEED INDEED INDEED, as anything that think ITSELF be of god, and another not, NO MATTER WHAT BELIEF, has NO CHOICE BUT TO HAVE A MOTIVE OF HATE created in the heart, which make the heart decietfully wicked, seeing not itself has become as the only definition of "worshipping satan", SEEING SELF AS A HOLY GOD, and others as LESS and so evil beings.....

it is only the natural way the mind was made, to automatically teach all humans born, as to think white be a better color, will make the mind see all black as less or evil.....

if the mind think PINK be better than BLUE, then blue become as EVIL TO THE MIND....

it is nothing more complex than this....

the only EVIL alien to this planet, be human minds thinking as such, creating HATE as god, which be not of love, and ceate here what was only said to be OPPOSITE of god......

Krimsa,



What public library includes that "information"?

Discussing the crusades or the witch burnings is fine. But those statements are statements of opinion. It's fine to have an opinion, but voicing such an incredibly negative and hateful opinion about another's religion is uncouth to say the least. You know how I have a friend who is a Muslim? When we talk we treat each other's beliefs with respect. It's okay to disagree but to call another person's beliefs "a foundation of pure evil and deceit." is a sure fire way to offend someone.

I don't torment Christians. They torment themselves.

The only reason that you feel tormented is because you are attempting to defend the indefensible.

But you didn't write the Bible. You're not responsible for it.

Clearly the bible was not written by any God.

This was just posted in another thread:

Psalms 14: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Clearly this is a lie. Therefore, only one of two things can be true. Either the Bible isn't the word of God, or God lies. Well, we can't have God lying, so clearly the Bible can't be the word of God.

It's crystal clear that the Bible was written by a very crude culture that used violence to solve all of its problems and use God as an excuse to justify its immoral behavior toward its enemies.

Now if you view this in your mind as some way for me to torment you then this is entirely your misperception. I'm actually trying to help people realize that the creator of this universe cannot be as lame and ugly as the Bible claims.

If you are tormented in this process that's certainly not my fault.

It's a fact the Christian organizations denounce same gender love as being sinful and an abomination of the Biblical God's laws. But the Bible itself is an abomination in its accusations of what our creator is like.

I make no apologies at all for standing up for human decency. If someone is tormented by the fact that I have recognized the Bible as an abomination of our creator, and they want to use the Bible as an excuse to torment human beings who just happen to love someone of their own gender then I have no remorse at all.

I'm not even gay myself. But that's totally irrelevant. I stand for human freedom and human decency. And it is an abomination of humanity to harass anyone for loving another person.

It's also an abomination of Jesus to use his name to denounce love and compassion in the name of the hateful jealous judgmental God from the Old Testament whom Jesus himself clearly disagreed with.

You are so fond of attempting to make attacks on my personal character because you take all of this so personally. But you are only upset because you know in your heart that it's wrong and you feel guilty about it. You know that prejudice toward others in the name of any God is wrong and indefensible, and you feel guilty about it because you also know that it can't be defended.

But you're not responsible for the bigotry and hatred that comes from the Bible.

I felt the same way you do when I was a Christian. I decided to do something about. I decided to learn the Bible well enough to justify it. What I soon discovered is that it is not only unjustifiable, but when viewed with a truly unbiased eye it clearly can't even be true. Just on moral grounds alone God could not possible be has demented as the Bible claims. But even aside from that, the very stories in the Bible contradict the very claims that it make about God. It's clearly as self-destructive text.

I came to the realization that Jesus could not be the son of the God of Abraham. It makes no sense on any reasonable or rational level of any kind. The very description of the God of Abraham is a description of a God who is neither all-wise nor all-powerful. The reasons why the Old Testament cannot possibly be true would fill a book even larger than the Old Testament itself.

Then there's the obvious fact that Jesus didn't even agree with the teachings of the Old Testament.

I finally realized that the myth as presented by orthodox Christianity cannot possibly be true. I finally realize that Jesus was not the God of Abraham and he was not sent via a virgin birth as a sacrificial lamb so that his blood could be used to wash away human sins. That's is all extremely archaic superstition that has no truth in reality at all.

What's more is that after I had come to that conclusion I realized that the great Isaac Newton also came to that very same conclusion! A little known fact is that Isaac Newtown, the greatest scientist who ever lived, arguably the brightest mind of all humanity, studied the Bible intensely. In fact, some historians claim that he spent more effort studying the Bible than he spent studying mathematics and physics.

He came to the same conclusions I did. So I'm in great company.

I was freed from the horrors the religion that now torment you.

I'm not the one who is tormenting you Spider. You are tormenting yourself because you know in your heart that the bigotry of Christianity is ungodly and you're are frustrated because you can't justify it.

That's not me tormenting you. That's you tormenting yourself. All to support an ancient book that claims that our creator is a jealous judgmental male-chauvinist bigot who hates heathens.

The book is a lie, and the verse I posted above is only one of a myriad of examples of lies that are printed in the name of this God.

Isaac Newton came to this very same conclusion. So I'm not about to back down from my position. I know that the Bible is a lie. And Jesus was a victim of the times.

The creator of our souls does not support bigotry, ignorance, and superstition like the Bible claims.

The book was not written by our creator.

It was written by a culture that needed an excuse for their poor behavior.

No torment intended on my part. I'm just trying to help you see the truth.

Brotherly love.

Love your brothers.

Don't be calling them heathens, and sinners. That's torment!

Abra,

Do you really believe you have shown brotherly love to the Christians in these forums?

I think JB was speaking honestly when she made that statement and based on what I (and several others have posted) as it concerns Christianity and the actions it has taken against those of differing beliefs, Witches, Islamic tribes, the list goes on, her sentiment was well founded. Do you expect these issues to simply not come up? As a Christian you have a responsibility to address them. Hitler, the Crusades, ALL OF IT!

What’s to stop it from happening again!

1) I don't have to answer for the sins of any other person.

2) Your answer doesn't surprise me in the least. I had thought you would manage to see the bias and hate, but you aren't able to or you see it and continue to deny.

A white supremacist could also speak honestly about what he believes about minorities. He would be banned from the forums under Rule #5 as I quoted above. It is blatantly unfair for Christians to be singled out as deserving such derogatory insults, while everyone else receives the protection of Rule #5.

Me and other Christians who would violently oppose such things. Once again, you seem to allow your belief that we are all "blind sheep" to imply that Christians would just sit back while it happened. In every situation where a large group of Christians have acted contrary to Christian doctrine, there have been Christian victims as well. Non-Catholic Christians were tortured and killed in the inquisition. Christians where killed by Hitler, along with his other victims. If some Christian group started rounding up non-Christians to kill them, I would be in line in front of you. (That's a complete hypothetical, Christianity has progressed to the point that such a thing will never happen again)

I agree spider, until this is declared the atheist only thread, it's highly rude and serves only to spread atheist propaganga, without regard by some for the feelings and sincere beliefs of Christians in particular.

Yeah and if you are able to locate a white supremacist who is particularly well versed in his bigotry, then he will undoubtedly be quoting the scripture for you where it justifies such blatant hatred and racial superiority themes. We all realize they have used the bible time and time again to support their “blood line theories.”

God bless you... I just don't know where this hate comes from. White supremacists have also used Darwin's theory of Evolution to support their beliefs, but I'm sure you wouldn't oppose evolution being taught.

I have to be honest, I am scared by people who have no concern about offending others. It reveals that they are able to justify hurting others in their own minds, which could easily pass words and move on to physical violence. That's scary to me. You say you are scared by Christianity, well I'm scared by people who can be so blase about hurting other people.

Oh get real. When was the last time you saw the KKK having a rally around Charles Darwin. Of course the cross is always very high profile. They use it in their insignia. They burn it on lawns. I doubt most of those people could understand the theory of evolution let alone attempt to somehow support it or further their cause with it.

What's more, it has always been people who could rationalize bad behavior who have been the danger. The Christians of the Middle Ages justified killing people who were different by saying that person was a witch. The Shaman in India are doing the same thing. The Nazis told themselves that they were better, so they deserved to be in charge. People who have owned slaves in the past and today found a way to justify that bad behavior. I know that my Lord won't accept any excuse. I might lose my temper, but it's a flash in the pan. Someone who can justify their hate can feel it indefinitely. That's who we should all be worried about.

Spider, do you or do you not have the capability of understanding why some people might take issue with Christianity based on its followers and historic track record?

Such people might take events in Christianities past and exaggerate the wrongs committed. Then, by taking the events completely out of context, events that weren't committed by any person alive could be used to justify hurting living Christians. Christians will be forced to pay for sins which they didn't commit and which their tormentors ancestors very well might have.

I have not exaggerated one scrap of historical evidence. If you take issue with anything I have presented, then get busy with your refutations.

What do I have to do to show a Christian brotherly love?

Embrace bigotry and hatred in the name of the Bible?

No thank you.

~~~

I think I'm treating Christians quite well.

At least I recognize Jesus as a loving caring compassionate human being.

I'm not going to support the insane idea that Jesus was the sacrifical lamb of a jealous judgmental bigoted male chuavinist Godhead.

It's my position that the Bible is a lie.

It's an intellectual position.

I offer it as one human being to another.

I'm a human being too Spider.

See, your problem is that you are lost in this imaginary war between "Christians versus Heathens".

You are so caught up in that war that all you can see is the division.

I'm not in a war.

I'm not at war with you.

That entirely a fabrication of your making.

You're the one who has made it into a personal vendetta. You have accepted the mentality of a 'Crusader'. A soldier of Christ, in the army of God.

That's precisely how the Bible teaches people to think.

Thus you automatically see everyone who doesn't believe in the Bible as "the enemy".

This truly is brainwashing at it most deadly. And the authors of the Bible were great at instilling this view. They do it on almost every page of the book.

Even that verse that is obviously a lie that I had just posted is a great example of the brainwashing.

Here: Read this!

Psalms 14: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

This is brainwashing pure and simple!

If they don't believe in OUR GOD they are NO GOOD!

That's brainwashing Spider.

That's all it is.

There's no divine truth in that book.

You're truly too smart to be allowing yourself to be taken in by this stuff.

Do you really want to support bigotry and ignorance in the name of a book that was written by a crude ruthless Middle Eastern culture?

Isaac Newton denounced it, Albert Einstein denounced it, Richard Feynman denounced it, Carl Saga denounced it, the list of brillant minds of humanity who have denounced the Mediterranean myth goes on and on.

And there is another choice!

That's key right there.

You don't need to believe that our creator solves all its problems using unwise violent methods and is a male chauvinists who thinks everyone who isn't from the Middle East was a heathen.

There are other pictures of God that make far more sense.

And some of the most intelligent minds subscribe to it. It's called pantheism in general and is probably best represented by Buddhism.

Albert Einstein gave his support to Buddihism as being the most reasonable picture of God created by mankind.

If you fully understand Buddhism and go back and read the Bible again, I truly don't see how you could possibly come away from it without recognizing the teachings of Buddha in everything that Jesus supposedly taught. You can even see his claims of being "One with the Father" as being the Buddhism belief that we are all one with God.

Jesus taught "Ye are Gods"

That's Buddhism.

I'm not even an atheist.

I don't denounce spirituality.

But I do denounce bigotry in the name of Jesus or God.

And I'm not about to embrace or condone bigotry in the name of Jesus just to pacify Christianity.

Here learn something about pantheism:

http://www.pantheism.net/

The Mediterranean myth is merely one picture of God, and it's not a pretty one at all. Surely even Christians can see that. It's all about a humanity that failed its creator, and it's all about a self-confessed jealous God who can't forgive sins unless he is appeased by a blood sacrifice.

It's based entirely on preverted superstitions.

Do you believe that the creator of this universe is perverted?

It's just not the only choice availble.

Why support that picture of God?

There are far better pictures available.

And any defense presented by the Christian will be seen as justification of their persecution. Historical inaccuracies will cease to matter, the mob will press attacking the Christians. Their innocence will be ignored, they will hear the cry "What about the crusades", but their tormentors will ignore the response "But I wasn't alive then". The fact that some people have done or do terrible things in the name of Christianity will be used to attack all Christians. The innocent Christians will be bewildered by the hate and unfairness of their treatment, but they will accept it as the fulfillment of one of Jesus' prophecies. Who knows how far the persecution will go?

Another post that clearly breaks rule #5. I hope a moderator gets around here and sees this, so that they can ban me for pointing it out.

People get banned when they wander off topic and start making personal insults. Not to mention that they give you a warning so you have to be pretty foolish to keep at it.