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Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
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Thu 01/22/09 08:49 AM
Definition of the word "god"
From:

http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/nogod/no_god.htm#intro

To prove the non-existence of god we first need to define the word "god". When christians talk about god they mean an almighty being. This, I think, is the only god that holds, since it is the only god that can be logically justified.

I think it makes most sense if god is female, because only women can give life. Something that even people in the Stone Age understood. Later when wars affected the cultural evolution, and men took control of society, god became male, but the female god still lives on in the expression "Mother earth". It should also be pointed out that an omnipotent god must be either androgyne or sexless. However, in most religions god is male so I will refer to god as 'he', 'him' etc.

Some people (Einstein for instance) believe in a god who is not a personal god, but a Spinozan kind of god. I claim that this god is not a god! To say that god is universe - by getting knowledge of the universe we get knowledge of god - is to redefine the meaning of the word god. This has nothing to do with the word god as it was defined by the "primitive" cultures which preceded our present civilization. He can be excluded with Occam's razor, and most important: Such a god does not hear prayers.

If god is not omnipotent there is nothing that prevents him from being a product of the universe. If that is the case, what makes god divine? Then god would only be an alien, a being of matter; probably containing flesh, blood and DNA like all life we know of. Everything god is able to do would be things that human beings also will be able to do, all his knowledge would be knowledge we will also achieve. In fact humans would be gods, which should lead to some strange kind of humanism!

Many people justify their faith with god as an explanation. What is the meaning of life? Where does time and space come from? Who created the physical constants? et cetera. Because we lack knowledge of these things - and maybe never will, since they are questions like "what is the color of a second?" or "how does sound taste?" - god is there as an explanation.

Let's say that god is the meaning of life, what then is the meaning of god? If god has a nature, who created that nature? If god created time and space, how can god exist without it? Since creation is an event in time, how could god create time? and who created god? To answer these questions god must be almighty, or else you can't explain them. In fact you can if you say god stands above time and space and so on (which he indeed does if he is almighty), but to be able to prevent god from being tied to future phenomena, you must give him the quality of omnipotence so he can stand above everything.

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Thu 01/22/09 08:50 AM
The qualities of an omnipotent god

If god is almighty there are several qualities he must have. They are as follows:

* He must know everything. Everything that is, everything that has been and everything that will be. To be able to know everything that will be he must know every position and every momentum of every particle in cosmos (Laplace's "World Spirit").
* He must be worth our worship. A being that is not worth worshipping is no god.
* He must be able to do anything. If there are things that god can't do, he certainly is not omnipotent.
* He must be above time. Something that even St. Augustine deduced. But not only that, god must stand above all possible dimensions.
* He cannot be 'good' or 'evil' or, indeed, have any subjective characteristica. If god is all good, he cannot do evil things and cannot be almighty. Most people would object and say that good can do evil but chooses not to do it. Well, if god is all good he can't choose to do evil things, can he?
The theodicé problem

We also have the theodice problem, stated by David Hume:
If the evil in the world is intended by god he is not good. If it violates his intentions he is not almighty. God can't be both almighty and good. There are many objections to this, but none that holds since god is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. Besides, if only god can create he must have created evil. If somebody else (the devil) created evil, how can one know that god, and not Satan created the universe?

For a good look at the Theodicé problem try The problem of natural evil


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Thu 01/22/09 08:51 AM
Neccesary a god is a being that is worth worshipping, so if there is no being worth worshipping there cannot be a god.

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Thu 01/22/09 08:54 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Thu 01/22/09 08:55 AM

Necessary a god is a being that is worth worshiping, so if there is no being worth worshiping there cannot be a god.



Now I will argue this point taken from the website mentioned. (I did not write this)

I have seen some beings I might worship. Adrain Paul comes to mind. laugh laugh

<-------------- Adrain and me.


Dialogue:

Gloria: - " Listen Adrian, pull yourself together! I have told you before, I can't marry you! I am afraid the real you would probably never live up to my fantasy."

Adrian: - "Please, at least let me give it a try.! Marry me! I'm crazy about you. And hey, I'm rich! If it doesn't work out, we'll call it quits, and you will get a generous alimony settlement.

Gloria: - "Oh Adrian, I'm not the marrying kind, and I don't want your money. You have got to get over this obsession you have for me. Forget about me. It just wouldn't work."

Adrian: - "Oh Gloria, I could never forget you!"

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