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| Topic: Arguments for the existence of God | |
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Hello everyone...
Interesting comments all around... Eljay, Good to see you, my friend...
With the utmost respect Eljay, not that I do or do not agree with the atrocity, but... The incident at Columbine has nothing to do with evolution in terms of pitting it against creationism... Columbine happened either way right? |
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ABra said:
I'm not holding modern Christians accountable for anything. I'm just pointing out the absurdity of the superstition that they are buying into. Hmmm, Abra, maybe modern Christians should be held accountable for creating an atmosphere of fear and hatred born of gullibility and outright dismissal of the atrocities in the bible. Held responsible for laziness, in not questioning those that lead them to believe things that should have been questioned by their very leaders. Held responsible for not teaching their children that other possibilities to a path to enlightenment exist. Maybe modern day Christianity is leading us backward to a time when we were even less educated and more violent. Those leaders so bent on bring about the end times may just find they destroyed man all on their own. I wonder if they would find a conscience even then. But then again those leaders found millions of followers that with out question supported their actions. Just a thought.... You're right. It's truly inexcusable. Ignorance is ignorance, and it's inexcusable. Bigotry in the name of Jesus is inexcusable. Teaching children to become bigots in the name of God is inexcusable. There's truly no excuse. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sat 01/17/09 04:17 PM
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I didn’t even understand that comment honestly so I didnt approach it. All I know is the Klan is generally a fundamentalist Christian organization. I’m not going on any of their websites but that I am certain of.
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Well explain why the Klan uses the burning cross exactly to incite fear in minorities? They also use the cross in their insignia. I really cant remember the last time I heard the word “Darwin” or “biological evolution” mentioned in any kind of contextual alliance with the KKK. Christianity would be another story all together. But here too - associating the KKK with christianity is like blaming Evolution for the actions of Klebold and Harris... (And yes C.S. - I agree, it is a stretch to blame Evolutionary theory for the actions of these two, however, it was what they believed that justified their actions to themselves. Clearly though - they were "unclear on the concept") ... it's misrepresenting the argument. The injustice lies not in Christianity itself - but the actions misrepresenting it. The same can be said for those who bomb abortion clinics in the name of christianity. It is the individual who has misinterpreted christianity who is to blame for this - not the ideology of christianity itself. Yet that is not your objection. You are not blaming the misinterpreting adherant for their actions - you are extrapolating it to Historic Christianity. And then you claim that you understand historic Christianity? If you did - you would know enough where to assess the blame. |
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I just found some VERY rotten apples ....
in the bottom of a nice big shiny box of beautiful red apples .... shipped to me at Christmas..... Should I throw out the Whole box of apples now .... because of a few rotten ones? 
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Hello everyone...
Interesting comments all around... Eljay, Good to see you, my friend...
With the utmost respect Eljay, not that I do or do not agree with the atrocity, but... The incident at Columbine has nothing to do with evolution in terms of pitting it against creationism... Columbine happened either way right? C.S. my friend. Hope you are doing well. Yes - I agree. It is this same absurdity that I am drawing an analogy to when someone says the actions of the crusades, Hitler, the witch trials, The Jonestown massacre, theManson massacres, abortion clinic bombings or the KKK is a representation of christianity. Just like the jihad's of radical Islamists are no more representative of Muslims as a whole. |
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blaming Evolution for the actions of Klebold and Harris...
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eljay, I would object to ANYONE or ANY organized religion that perpetrated such atrocities in its name. It does not matter to me in the slightest.
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I just found some VERY rotten apples .... in the bottom of a nice big shiny box of beautiful red apples .... shipped to me at Christmas..... Should I throw out the Whole box of apples now .... because of a few rotten ones?
If you are making an analogy then yes. If you mean actual apples, take out all of the rotten ones and you might be able to salvage the rest if you just wash them real good with soap. |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Sat 01/17/09 04:47 PM
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Yes - I agree. It is this same absurdity that I am drawing an analogy to when someone says the actions of the crusades, Hitler, the witch trials, The Jonestown massacre, theManson massacres, abortion clinic bombings or the KKK is a representation of christianity. Just like the jihad's of radical Islamists are no more representative of Muslims as a whole. There's no comparison there at all Eljay. None whatsoever. The witch trials and the crusades were done in the name of Jesus, or in the name of God if you want. An therein lies the difference. You can't have a God who can supposedly intervene via divine inspiration to have men write his words in a book called the Bible. And then have that very same God just sit by and do nothing whilst men who are worshiping him write the Malleus Maleficarum and incite 300 hundred years of torturing and burning innocent women do death in the name of Jesus Christ. Sorry, but that would be a totally irresponsible intervening God. You can't have a God who can supposedly intervene to make rules just stand and allow people who worship him to misunderstand his message and commit horrific atrocities in his name. Such an intervening God would be totally irresponsible. It's not a workable scenario. The mere fact that Christianity was used for over 300 years to torture and burn innocent women to death in the name of Jesus Christ is proof positive that Jesus Christ is not an all-powerful God, nor the son of any all-powerful God. Proof Positive. Christianity cannot possibly be true. The supposed intervening God that it claims to write about cannot possibly exist, and simultaneously be responsible or divine in any way shape or form. Christianity is proven to be false. Beyond any shadow of a doubt. Unless you believe that God is worse than Satan himself.
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Not to mention that I didnt see Satan trying to drown the entire planet (animals also). That was god's little temper tantrum. Satan was not involved with that.
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Because they encountered God in their lives, and no additional proofs were necessary for them.
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Who? What?
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Sorry to interrupt...
Just my answer to the OP 
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Sorry to interrupt... Just my answer to the OP
This was the OP The Kalam Cosmological Arguement, Pascal’s Wager, The Ontological Argument, The Cosmological Argument, The Teleological Argument (i.e. the argument from design), The Moral Argument, Religious Experience and The Argument from Miracles.
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What I'll never understand is why so many people choose to support the Mediterranean picture of God on pure faith.
It's clearly not divine. Yet they argue for it tooth and nail. What's up with that? Athesism is actually a prettier picture. I'm much rather atheism is true than to believe that I was created by such an inept God as the Bible described. If mankind is flawed it can only be because his creator failed him. It can't be the other way around. That's absurd. In fact, the whole premise is that if you give yourself over to God, then God will give you what it takes to ward off sin. Well, duh! If that's TRUE, then all that can mean is that he was holding back that ability to BEGIN WITH! No matter how you look at it, you can't have a creator laying blame on his creation for being inept. If his creation is inept it can only be because he created it that way. |
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I have to be honest, I am scared by people who have no concern about offending others. It reveals that they are able to justify hurting others in their own minds, which could easily pass words and move on to physical violence. That's scary to me. You say you are scared by Christianity, well I'm scared by people who can be so blase about hurting other people. What's more, it has always been people who could rationalize bad behavior who have been the danger. The Christians of the Middle Ages justified killing people who were different by saying that person was a witch. The Shaman in India are doing the same thing. The Nazis told themselves that they were better, so they deserved to be in charge. People who have owned slaves in the past and today found a way to justify that bad behavior. I know that my Lord won't accept any excuse. I might lose my temper, but it's a flash in the pan. Someone who can justify their hate can feel it indefinitely. That's who we should all be worried about. Such people might take events in Christianities past and exaggerate the wrongs committed. Then, by taking the events completely out of context, events that weren't committed by any person alive could be used to justify hurting living Christians. Christians will be forced to pay for sins which they didn't commit and which their tormentors ancestors very well might have. And any defense presented by the Christian will be seen as justification of their persecution. Historical inaccuracies will cease to matter, the mob will press attacking the Christians. Their innocence will be ignored, they will hear the cry "What about the crusades", but their tormentors will ignore the response "But I wasn't alive then". The fact that some people have done or do terrible things in the name of Christianity will be used to attack all Christians. The innocent Christians will be bewildered by the hate and unfairness of their treatment, but they will accept it as the fulfillment of one of Jesus' prophecies. Who knows how far the persecution will go? And the hate goes on, adding to it faux moral outrage. Every argument to defend the Christians is ignored and only serve to further enrage those who blindly attack Christianity with the savagery of a rabid dog. Their words are no barks of anger and hate, a cacophony of insults and smears and when they are called to task over their statements, they momentarily feign innocence and then resume attacking. An endless cycle with every defense taken as an outrage pushing them towards great and great examples of hate. |
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Double oops
sorry
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 I’m not feigning any innocence. Bring it on. I have already told you, any of you, if one shred of historical evidence I have brought to this debate is flawed or exaggerated or incorrect, then refute it..Go ahead.
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I just wanted to drop in, hang out, and show my arse a bit...
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