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| Topic: Please pdrove that 'god' exists. | |
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Ahh then spirit must be in the eyes, or on the tip of the noes. Unless they broke the belly stare to discuss the spirit they are watching and are near sighted and almost def.  pardon ???
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Ahh then spirit must be in the eyes, or on the tip of the noes. Unless they broke the belly stare to discuss the spirit they are watching and are near sighted and almost def. pardon ??? Im just riffing on your picture don't mind me. . . |
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Edited by
splendidlife
on
Wed 10/29/08 01:12 PM
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This is a false Dichotomy. There are more then two possibilities, there is not just God, or infinite nothingness, there could have always been a something, matter is energy and there could have always been a universe creating mechanism . . . just because we don't understand does not = god. Ok let's take the concept of 'there could have always been a something'. Sounds reasonable on the surface. But infinity doesn't work like that. Having 'always existed' would mean that an infinite amount of time had passed before we came into consciousness to sit here and philosophize. Which is impossible - an infinite amount of time passing would also mean we never began to exist at any certain point (or else it wouldn't have been an infinite amount of time). That original infinity without us would still be continuing. Infinity is unchanging and constant... forever. Which isn't the current state of the universe. The universe as we know it came into existence at some point in time and we came into consciousness at a specific point in time. That's just the way our reality is. And that's paradoxical to infinity. ...unless there is another power that operates outside the physical rules of our universe and especially the time aspect of existence. Some claim that 'God' fits that bill perfectly. Others might claim that power is something else occult. Different folks, different opinions (I'm not taking a side here). All I'm trying to point out is that even according to scientific theory that an ultimate creating power that transcends this physical world and isn't bound by time - is the only explanation for how we could exist at a specific point in an infinity. It's just my *opinion* (I'm agnostic), but an ultimate creating power that transcends the physical universe and time fits my definition of what God is perfectly. There is more then one kind of infinity, time to take some math. This argument MIGHT hold if we could measure time beyond our 3 dimensions. We currently cannot, and so making logical deductions about time before the Big bang is not going to further our understanding of space time, neither is saying god did it. Read about QM and tell me that time and infinities are reasonable things to base logical statements on . . . . Also saying infinity is unchanging and constant is also just plain wrong. 2 words: Irrational numbers: PIE: is pie unchanging? can we predict what number will come next? If there was a universe creating mechanism at a higher dimension from ours could you predict how long it takes to spit out one big bang when you your self are confined to the space time of the universe it created? Answer no: Question does that make it a god? Answer: no What if pie was a function that each odd number represents the creation of a new big bang within the foamy space-time of higher dimensions how is that not infinite and how is that constant. You cannot predict when the next odd number will come and yet its infinite. Are you sure your agnostic, it appears you are arguing that there MUST have been a god. My conclusion: logic will not deduce reality beyond the common place. I am thinking that it is entirely possible that God can exist yet at the same time not exist. Since there is no proof that he does NOT exist, there is also equally as much proof that he DOES exist. So there fore we have a split decision of sorts. Lacking proof on both sides, no one can prove or disprove God. First things first. You have to define "God" and then agree on that premise with the person you are attempting to prove or disprove his or her or Its existence or non-existence. So until you do that, you are just spinning your wheels. I agree completely. Yeah... Like we're going to define "God". Infinite number of possibilities... There's this understanding or belief that there HAS to be something beyond each individual's will driving the process of existence of ALL. What that "something" is can not be placed into any one definition. We'll be spinning our wheels on this for eternity. Yes when your sight is so open it can indeed be an endless task. Few are up for that mental task and so settle for a lesser vision of what god could be. Most gods fall into a few categories for those that settle: The omnipotent, omniscient describes most peoples concept of god. ( this is fact is a great things to really start a good conversation with a "true believer" that is not as open as you are. So next you have to ask yourself do you believe your god interferes with the natural processes of the universe? Perhaps "God" IS the same thing as the "natural processes of the Universe". The two may NOT be mutually exclusive. Then you have to ask yourself, do you feel you can communicate with god via prayer? Prayer is the act of attempting to communicate with a deity or spirit... some power greater than or beyond one's self or conscious understanding. Perhaps we are ALL in constant communication with "God" via our thought processes. All that we ponder on a conscious level gets filtered to a higher knowing or subconscious realm in which, if we are in non-resistance (not in total agenda or trying to control outcome), a greater understanding of Universal proportion may be available. I then ask do you believe in miracles. ALL of life and matter of the Universe are the "miracle". Then I ask do you think miracles are supernatural? Perhaps... Depending on one's own definition of "supernatural". I then ask for them to show me a miracle, or documentation of one. Proof of the "miracle" is this physical world/Universe around us... So, I wouldn't have to show you... You already see it every day. Then the conversation can get some meat once you can nail the person for there beliefs by using real world scenarios about why there god doesn't seem to give a **** yet is supposed to be loving. (I reserve this way of inquiry for those that are obnoxious when it comes to the reality of science only, I love my friends that are true believers that accept reality and wouldn't be so harsh as to bring up why amputees don't get miracles but some cancer patients do. . . .) Giving a **** would be an emotion-based phenomenon. I personally believe that emotion was something that was (some how) created to assist living things in the process of learning navigation and survival of physical experience. A "God" or power greater than what we know would have no "need" for emotion. We assign this in the attempt to match our own human experience. You can definitely get closer to an idea of what a person believes regarding there concept of god. But a solid definition not actually based on faith yea, not going to happen. What some people represent as "faith" occurs to me amusingly more like fairy-tale... A somewhat childish notion of a "happily-ever-after". My personal belief is that each individual is responsible for the environment they perpetuate around them (while, at the same time, the environment also perpetuates the individual's way of being and so on...). People who are just spiritual seem to me to be more pure and tend to understand more science, this is something that cannot be argued with, it also has alluded any real proof. So in conclusion if god is provable, it does not appear that we have the evidence yet . . . The answer is 42. 
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Ahh then spirit must be in the eyes, or on the tip of the noes. Unless they broke the belly stare to discuss the spirit they are watching and are near sighted and almost def. pardon ??? Im just riffing on your picture don't mind me. . . Ohhhh ~ Okay ...     
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Those angels look sexy. Ya know Michael was battle angel and he kicked ass. Im sure if he was routinely cutting the throats of humans then he was was also capable of having intimate physical contact with either human women or angels. Stands to reason in an unreasonable scenario right?
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Those angels look sexy. Ya know Michael was battle angel and he kicked ass. Im sure if he was routinely cutting the throats of humans then he was was also capable of having intimate physical contact with either human women or angels. Stands to reason in an unreasonable scenario right? Sure! Why not?
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Those angels look sexy. Ya know Michael was battle angel and he kicked ass. Im sure if he was routinely cutting the throats of humans then he was was also capable of having intimate physical contact with either human women or angels. Stands to reason in an unreasonable scenario right? |
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Edited by
Rapunzel
on
Wed 10/29/08 03:12 PM
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i have never read anywhere of the Archangel Michael having that kind of interaction with humans The Bible speaks of battling not against flesh & blood but against principalities.... spiritual wickedness in high places.... {{{{ i found this online...}}} i am copying and pasting....  please don't anyone get upset   {{{ it ain't no thang }}}} ...anyway...so what ??? i have many other things that are required of me in the course of a day  than to just type it all out  it is waaaaaay too time consuming http://bible.cc/ephesians/6-12.htm << Ephesians 6:12 >> International Standard Version For our struggle is not against human opponents, but against rulers, authorities, cosmic powers in the darkness around us, and evil spiritual forces in the heavenly realm. New American Standard Bible For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. GOD'S WORD® Translation This is not a wrestling match against a human opponent. We are wrestling with rulers, authorities, the powers who govern this world of darkness, and spiritual forces that control evil in the heavenly world. King James Bible For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. American King James Version For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. American Standard Version For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places . Bible in Basic English For our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against authorities and powers, against the world-rulers of this dark night, against the spirits of evil in the heavens. Douay-Rheims Bible For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places. Darby Bible Translation because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against principalities, against authorities, against the universal lords of this darkness, against spiritual power of wickedness in the heavenlies. English Revised Version For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Webster's Bible Translation For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Weymouth New Testament For ours is not a conflict with mere flesh and blood, but with the despotisms, the empires, the forces that control and govern this dark world--the spiritual hosts of evil arrayed against us in the heavenly warfare. World English Bible For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world's rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Young's Literal Translation because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places; |
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My turn to apologize Rapunzel. It was a play on words I could not resist and the movie was also zipping around in my mind.
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My turn to apologize Rapunzel. It was a play on words I could not resist and the movie was also zipping around in my mind. oh my !!!   <<<< different kind of wench >>>> [ an apology for me? }  wow....how very sweet of you ...thank you i haven't been reading every post so i don't even know what you are referring to  but....this makes my heart feel so full with love  & overflowing like it is almost going to burst thank you very very much love and hugs Dear Lady i think we are making some real progress in bridging spiritual gaps and differences here
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 10/29/08 03:53 PM
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splendidlife:
If god is "only" the natural forces of the universe, then is that really a god? If god is "more" then just the natural processes of the world, but is that also, then what other characteristics make up this god? At this point I go back to my questions for theists 1) does god have a consciousness? 2) is god a decision maker? (dependent on #1) 2) is god a loving god? (also dependent on #1) 3) is god omni-know-power? 4) does he hear your prayers? 5) does he answer prayers? 6) is there miracles 7) are miracles supernatural? If none then how is that a god? If all then we should be able to prove god though prayer. If not 4, or 5 then what the hell is it good to have this so called relationship with this god if he doesn't listen or do anything? If miracles happen then what determines who gets the miraculous? If your cancer goes away miraculously is that nature? Is that god, if god is nature and functions by natural processes only, then is that really god again. Circles circles circles. If only natural then not god. God is supernatural by the very definition. If nature is your god, then you are like me, only you like less defined words hehe.
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If you can...  what for...?
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If you can... what for...? Symbelmyne....you are funny... I admire your spunk .. i guess they say it takes one to know one... and i am very very spunky too
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I think everyone knows my view, it is like contemplating your navel lent to really accept a supernatural god. Circles circles
To accept a completely natural god is like saying cheese is god like because it tastes good. |
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splendidlife: If god is "only" the natural forces of the universe, then is that really a god? If god is "more" then just the natural processes of the world, but is that also, then what other characteristics make up this god? At this point I go back to my questions for theists 1) does god have a consciousness? 2) is god a decision maker? (dependent on #1) 2) is god a loving god? (also dependent on #1) 3) is god omni-know-power? 4) does he hear your prayers? 5) does he answer prayers? 6) is there miracles 7) are miracles supernatural? If none then how is that a god? If all then we should be able to prove god though prayer. If not 4, or 5 then what the hell is it good to have this so called relationship with this god if he doesn't listen or do anything? If miracles happen then what determines who gets the miraculous? If your cancer goes away miraculously is that nature? Is that god, if god is nature and functions by natural processes only, then is that really god again. Circles circles circles. If only natural then not god. God is supernatural by the very definition. If nature is your god, then you are like me, only you like less defined words hehe. Is it "God" per say? Since God can not be definitively described... probably not. It's a miracle that are hearts are beating on their own. Nature is the closest I've come to feeling a "God". Yeah... Definitions are like cages for ideas. 
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 10/29/08 04:07 PM
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"Yeah... Definitions are like cages for ideas."
Sure why not, or perhaps not cage, perhaps container. Ideas shouldn't move anyway. The processes of working through ideas and giving each idea its place is the exploration . . . the adventure and requires freedom. Its a matter of perspective, pull back a bit and you can see how ideas need cages, but the process of creation of the ideas must be free. Beliefs are a cage for the idea creation process. |
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"Yeah... Definitions are like cages for ideas." No they just let you know where one stops and a new one begins. The processes of working through ideas and giving each idea its place is the exploration the adventure and requires freedom. Beliefs are a cage for ideas. Agreed. Flexible definitions are do-able.
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 10/29/08 04:08 PM
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I thought about it, and you are right I edited with my flexed thoughts hehehe. I never seem to be able to edit just once!!! ahhhhhh
Love ya darlin!
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I thought about it, and you are right I edited with my flexed thoughts hehehe. I never seem to be able to edit just once!!! ahhhhhh Love ya darlin!
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