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| Topic: IS GOD RESPONSABLE FOR EVERYTHING OR NOT | |
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I have to agree. I bet Quickstepper would line all the heathens and Pagans and Wiccans and miscellaneous non-believers on forum up and order them all put to death by stoning if she thought she would not go to prison.
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spidey, i've heard you say god is dead and jesus is crap - so is that putting words in your mouth? Tribo, What's the point of this? You are so childish, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that you are 13. I think a village somewhere is regretting buying their fool a computer.... On second thought, I regret posting the bolded portion. There is no reason for me to be rude, even if I see no point in posting a fabrication. Tribo, I apologize, I shouldn't have talked to you in that way. I hope you will still answer my question: "What's the point of this?" |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Tue 10/21/08 12:26 PM
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Just have a moment here:
Tribo...go back and read what Dewdrew wrote...especially on how God created Lucifer(God made Lucifer perfect ...NOT evil) Meaning, God did not create evil.....  
Jeannie... Following Jesus is the GREATEST JOY!! DONE WITH A WILLING HEART!!! NO SLAVERY WHATSOEVER!! WE LOVE AND WANT TO FOLLOW JESUS ........NOT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO !!!!!! Jeannie...Jesus CLOSES THE DEEP GAP between man and God, that was caused when sin entered in..... sin separated us from God...... Accepting Jesus as our Saviour CLOSES the GAP .... and ALSO.... brings us bACK INTO FELLOWSHIP WITH THE FATHER!!! No slave driving here in the picture at all, Jeannie!! IF God wanted slaves...or robots..He would have never given man a FREE WILL!! And Jeannie.....Just because you are not choosing to follow Jesus now, doesn't mean God is done with you..or gonna just let you go.....nooooo.... GOD KNOWS you don't understand yet...but God is the one Who saves you in the first place... not you... HE is the one who woos you and draws you unto Him...... and He knows the time when you finally will understand and be ready.....
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Just have a moment here: Tribo...go back and read what Dewdrew wrote...especially on how God created Lucifer(God made Lucifer perfect ...NOT evil) Meaning, God did not create evil.....
Jeannie... Following Jesus is the GREATEST JOY!!DONE WITH A WILLING HEART!!! NO SLAVERY WHATSOEVER!! WE LOVE AND WANT TO FOLLOW JESUS !!! Jeannie...Jesus CLOSES THE DEEP GAP between man and God, that was caused when sin entered in..... sin separated us from God...... And Accepting Jesus as our Saviour CLOSES the GAP .... and ALSO.... brings us bACK INTO FELLOWSHIP WITH THE FATHER!!! No slave driving here in the picture at all, Jeannie!!
That's a very romantic view you have there MorningSong but I think it misses the point associated with the threat of damnation to non-believers. This would be like you claiming to lovingly follow and worship Hitler and not understand why all those who are not happy with his tactics can't seem understand why they are being sent to concentration camps. Any God who would condemn non-believers simply because they don't believe in a hateful dogma can't be a divine being. It's at simple as that. There are many negative things in the Bible, and there have been many more negative acts conducted by the churches who claim to be following this godforsaken mythology. How can you not see why a loving person would denounce such hatred and violence? And then you think it would be justified to send that person to hell? Hell would be full of the most decent loving people, and heaven would be full of blind followers who can't see past their own nose of experience. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Tue 10/21/08 12:38 PM
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Except that you will go to hell Morning Song if you decide that you dont want to follow this "Lord" anymore. Lord implies a feudal land owner. I dont expect you to have a grasp of history as that is a personal interest of mine but I beg you to look up the historical significance of the term "lord" as it related to 18th and 19th century Europe and the dynamic between serf and land ownership.
I can not have faith in your faith Morning Song because you are afraid that you will go to hell if you do not acquiesce to the will of this human derived and invented "lord". |
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Once people TRULY understand WHO this Beautiful Saviour Named Jesus TRULY IS,
ALL Will Follow with a GLAD Heart.
Ahhhh... Sweet People Here.. There is No Greater Joy Than in Knowing Jesus....
And No Greater Love....
Promise.....
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Once people TRULY understand WHO this Beautiful Saviour Named Jesus TRULY IS,
ALL Will Follow with a GLAD Heart.
Ahhhh... Sweet People Here.. There is No Greater Joy Than in Knowing Jesus....
And No Greater Love....
Promise.....
Morning Song you act like a little child that doesnt want to hear something disagreeable to them so you put your hands over your ears and sing.
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Hi my lady, well here again this statement you make comes about from not reading the whole post.
i clarified a long time back that god created the potential for evil to come into existence, without creation the potential for Lucifer/Adam/eve and all else would not have been capable of being - thus once again god brought the potential for its existence into being - therefore god is guilty by his own acts of putting Lucifer/man in the position to be able to commit sin thus no creation - no sin, case closed. the jury finds the the defendant guilty as charged. |
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and since god is responsible for the creation of evil hes responsible for every early death by violence, theft and rape. kudos god. nice job.
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Edited by
tribo
on
Tue 10/21/08 01:02 PM
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spidey, i've heard you say god is dead and jesus is crap - so is that putting words in your mouth? Tribo, What's the point of this? You are so childish, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that you are 13. I think a village somewhere is regretting buying their fool a computer.... On second thought, I regret posting the bolded portion. There is no reason for me to be rude, even if I see no point in posting a fabrication. Tribo, I apologize, I shouldn't have talked to you in that way. I hope you will still answer my question: "What's the point of this?" no you hurt my feelings!!! 
NOT!!! - but your right neither i or you or others should be personally attacking anyone no matter how strongly we disagree - accept for me - 
i dont agree with you spidey or morning song or deb or eljay - but i really do try to not make it personal[ except in jest/humor]but i even do that with abra and Jb and others thats just my sarcastic humor- no more, no less, nuff said, no apology needed, but thnx anyway -
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Following Jesus is the GREATEST JOY!! DONE WITH A WILLING HEART!!! NO SLAVERY WHATSOEVER!! WE LOVE AND WANT TO FOLLOW JESUS ........NOT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO !!!!!! Jeannie...Jesus CLOSES THE DEEP GAP between man and God, that was caused when sin entered in..... sin separated us from God...... Accepting Jesus as our Saviour CLOSES the GAP .... and ALSO.... brings us bACK INTO FELLOWSHIP WITH THE FATHER!!! No slave driving here in the picture at all, Jeannie!! IF God wanted slaves...or robots..He would have never given man a FREE WILL!! And Jeannie.....Just because you are not choosing to follow Jesus now, doesn't mean God is done with you..or gonna just let you go.....nooooo.... GOD KNOWS you don't understand yet...but God is the one Who saves you in the first place... not you... HE is the one who woos you and draws you unto Him...... and He knows the time when you finally will understand and be ready.....
Sorry Morningsong. 
I know freedom when I see it and I know slavery when I see it. Freedom is paramount and I am a free soul. Jesus is pure fiction. I can't follow a fictional character no matter how nice he is portrayed; nor can I worship lessor creator gods who are involved with blood sacrifice and ritual because I recognize them as the reptilian and draconian bloodlines of the Milky way galaxy inhabitants who lust for power and blood, and worship and serve a draconian queen. Their practice of slavery is common place to them. |
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NOT!!! - but your right neither i or you or others should be personally attacking anyone no matter how strongly we disagree - accept for me -
Right, but what I said wasn't because I disagreed with you, it's because you falsely claimed I said "spidey, i've heard you say god is dead and jesus is crap". That's simply not true and not something you should even joke about. So I repeat my question again: "What's the point of this?" Were you trying to be funny? You missed the mark by a long shot. |
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NOT!!! - but your right neither i or you or others should be personally attacking anyone no matter how strongly we disagree - accept for me -
Right, but what I said wasn't because I disagreed with you, it's because you falsely claimed I said "spidey, i've heard you say god is dead and jesus is crap". That's simply not true and not something you should even joke about. So I repeat my question again: "What's the point of this?" Were you trying to be funny? You missed the mark by a long shot. Wasnt it Nietzsche that said "God is dead." ? Maybe someone was quoting and it was misinterpreted? 
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NOT!!! - but your right neither i or you or others should be personally attacking anyone no matter how strongly we disagree - accept for me -
Right, but what I said wasn't because I disagreed with you, it's because you falsely claimed I said "spidey, i've heard you say god is dead and jesus is crap". That's simply not true and not something you should even joke about. So I repeat my question again: "What's the point of this?" Were you trying to be funny? You missed the mark by a long shot. yeh i was going somewhere humerous with it ti make a point but i no longer care. so lets drop it ok. |
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Can anyone prove this stuff is "divinely inspired" or better yet, not terribly agenda driven by men eager to obtain power, control and presumably wealth by espousing this crap and pretending to "hear the direct word of a faceless, formless deity?" And what happened to all of the civilizations and people who existed thousands of years prior to this monotheistic invasion who were Pagan??? 
Well for one thing - none of the disciples obtained power, they maintained control over no one, and they certainly did not accumulate wealth. As a matter of record - they were imprisoned, stoned, fed to lions, and crucified for their "agenda". Kind of underminds your hypothesis of those idea's. All of the civilizations who existed prior to them. I would wager a guess they all died. Eljay, some Christians were indeed thrown to the lions but not nearly the number that they would have us believe. Not all of them were Christians. The vast majority put to death by the Romans were captives and that could have been anyone. And most of them were considered criminals because of desecration of temples, not just because they were Christians. And "they all died" is not an answer. Your post doesn't make any sense. First of all, what does "not nearly the number that they think" - who's they, and I wasn't aware they had any clue as to how many were thrown to the lions. What they knew is if you were a christian and you got caught, you were matryd. I'm sure they weren't keeping track of whether it was burned at the stake, fed to the lions, crucified, run through with a sword... Sure they all died is an asnwer. You know of any of them who didn't? "They" would be referring to Christians. I think you missed the point of the post. Of course there's no evidence, it's just religious propaganda. Not to mention that wouldn't it be a horrible prospect either way? Shouldn't the Christians have realized that two wrongs do not make a right as it would relate to their own treatment of non-believers and Pagans much later in history? No such luck. Romans killed a lot of people, captives were executed for all kinds of reasons, and yes a lot of Christians got killed , and a lot of Jews got killed too, and a whole lot of everything else. Christians, specially Catholics, are just making a big deal of this to amplify their status as martyrs through history. Christians killed Pagans before the Romans fed Christians to the lions. The Pagans were minding their own business but because according to the Christians they were not following the "true god" they got killed because of it. The Romans were just returning the favor. Being an ass, historically, begets, being an ass. "They all died" is not addressing the issue of pre-Christian peoples at all. All the Christians from that time period are dead also. Your point? I think you've got your dates a little confused. Christians were not killing pagens at the time of the Roman persecution - where are you getting this information? My response of "they all died" was a response of equal relevance of the question you asked. If you found no point in my response, it is because there was no point to your question. |
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Eljay, I would agree with Sam on this one. Just let people voice their opinions and utilize whatever examples, analogies or resources they like. Not to mention that this thread has already splintered into several sub-topics. I have no interest in the OP's original post but I see no reason to begin censoring responses this late in the game. 
I don't have a problem with the tangents that have run off the OP - I have only responded to the specific posts that have either adressed me, or ones that have run parallel to the points that Tribo and I were discussing. My question was adressed more specifically to him, he just responded to it on a broader level than I had adressed. I have never, and will never censor anyone's responses, however, when I see a troll - I'll call them out on it. Fortunately, the threads have been troll free for a time. |
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Hi jfrog88. Welcome to the forum. Hope you're wearing your "thick" skin. You're right in that he knows the who, what and when, but he doesn't have the ability to stop us. The closest he can get to controlling our actions is through the self-conscience which the holy spirit within us. have you heard the phrase "you can lead a deer to water, but you can't make it drink?" That quote directly applies here in that God can give you guidance, but he can't stop you from doing what you're doing or about to do. God had given us free will and the only way to stop one from committing a certain sin is for the person them self to no longer have to desire. If you are going to commit and sin (for example, steal something from somewhere or someone) If you have that thought in your head, and you really want to do it, but somehow you had your hands and feet chained to a fence, in the eyes of God, the fact that you would still do it were you not chained up, is considered a sin. Things can get a little rough around here sometimes. But in general we're mostly a fairly respectful lot - mostly Here's my take. God didn't create sin, only the ability to do so. By giving man(people in general, not just males) free will, and the ability to do as we wish, he had given us the ability to sin. God did this, because he knew that man would fall from grace, knowing the difference between good and evil through the temptation of Lucifer. God did this, so that we would be able to make a choice, to either live a life of sin, living only to please the flesh with the things of the world, or choose to live a righteous life, glorifying Him. God didn't create man to be robots, to forcefully worship Him but to give Him glory and honor out of our own free will. It's not like God put man on the Earth and was surprised that Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he knew they would. It was because of that action that we as people now have the decision to live for the world with temporary satisfaction, eventually falling to Hell along with Satan, or to live a life that pleases our Father and rising up to Heaven to live forever with God and truly love him, not just loving him because he makes us love him, but with all our heart, of our own free will. So now I'm curious - what exactly are the abilities of this god? What else is he unable to do? If he can't stop me from doing what I want to do, can he force me to do what I don't want to do? And how does this relate to the alleged heaven and hell? Can he stop me from going to heaven? Can he force me to go to hell? Surely, Sky, you must know that the God in the post you have responded to does not exist beyond the presuptions of the poster. The biblical God can, at any moment in time - stop anyone from doing anything. However, it would be against his nature to cause that individual to do something that would go against their freedom of choice. It is not hat he "can't" force you to do something you don't want to do - it is that he won't. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Wed 10/22/08 11:10 PM
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Can anyone prove this stuff is "divinely inspired" or better yet, not terribly agenda driven by men eager to obtain power, control and presumably wealth by espousing this crap and pretending to "hear the direct word of a faceless, formless deity?" And what happened to all of the civilizations and people who existed thousands of years prior to this monotheistic invasion who were Pagan???
Well for one thing - none of the disciples obtained power, they maintained control over no one, and they certainly did not accumulate wealth. As a matter of record - they were imprisoned, stoned, fed to lions, and crucified for their "agenda". Kind of underminds your hypothesis of those idea's. All of the civilizations who existed prior to them. I would wager a guess they all died. Eljay, some Christians were indeed thrown to the lions but not nearly the number that they would have us believe. Not all of them were Christians. The vast majority put to death by the Romans were captives and that could have been anyone. And most of them were considered criminals because of desecration of temples, not just because they were Christians. And "they all died" is not an answer. Your post doesn't make any sense. First of all, what does "not nearly the number that they think" - who's they, and I wasn't aware they had any clue as to how many were thrown to the lions. What they knew is if you were a christian and you got caught, you were matryd. I'm sure they weren't keeping track of whether it was burned at the stake, fed to the lions, crucified, run through with a sword... Sure they all died is an asnwer. You know of any of them who didn't? "They" would be referring to Christians. I think you missed the point of the post. Of course there's no evidence, it's just religious propaganda. Not to mention that wouldn't it be a horrible prospect either way? Shouldn't the Christians have realized that two wrongs do not make a right as it would relate to their own treatment of non-believers and Pagans much later in history? No such luck. Romans killed a lot of people, captives were executed for all kinds of reasons, and yes a lot of Christians got killed , and a lot of Jews got killed too, and a whole lot of everything else. Christians, specially Catholics, are just making a big deal of this to amplify their status as martyrs through history. Christians killed Pagans before the Romans fed Christians to the lions. The Pagans were minding their own business but because according to the Christians they were not following the "true god" they got killed because of it. The Romans were just returning the favor. Being an ass, historically, begets, being an ass. "They all died" is not addressing the issue of pre-Christian peoples at all. All the Christians from that time period are dead also. Your point? I think you've got your dates a little confused. Christians were not killing pagens at the time of the Roman persecution - where are you getting this information? My response of "they all died" was a response of equal relevance of the question you asked. If you found no point in my response, it is because there was no point to your question. I actually only copied and pasted up to an extent. I can keep going if you like. Crack a history book Eljay. Thats all I can say. And Im tired of your excuse of "Im too old and done with school." Learning is an ongoing process. 314 Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks the Gentiles: The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of the Goddess Artemis. 324 Emperor Constantine declares Christianity the only official religion of the Roman Empire. At Dydima, Asia Minor, he sacks the Oracle of God Apollo and tortures its Pagan priests to death. He evicts the Gentiles from Mt. Athos and destroys all local Hellenic Temples. 326 Emperor Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the Temple of the God Asclepius in Aigeai of Cilicia and many Temples of the Goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenice, Baalbek, etc. 330 Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the Pagan Temples in Greece to decorate Nova Roma (Constantinople), the new capital of his Empire. 335 Constantine sacks many Pagan Temples of Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers". Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatros. 341 Emperor Constas, son of Constantinus, persecutes "all the soothsayers and the Hellenists". Many Gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed. 346 New large-scale persecutions of the Gentiles in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius, who is accused of being a "magician". 353 An edict of Constantius decrees the death penalty for all forms of worship involving sacrifice and "idols". 354 A new edict of Constantius orders the closing of all Pagan Temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms. Executions of Pagan priests. The first burning of libraries in various cities of the Empire. The first lime factories are built next to closed Pagan Temples. A large part of Sacred Gentile architecture is turned into lime. 356 A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the Pagan Temples and the execution of all "idolaters". 357 Constantius outlaws all methods of Divination (Astrology not excluded). 359 In Skythopolis, Syria, christians organise the first death camps for the torture and execution of arrested Gentiles from all around the Empire. 361 to 363 Religious tolerance and restoration of Pagan cults declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the Pagan Emperor Flavius Claudius Julianus. 363 Assassination of Emperor Julianus (26th June). 364 Emperor Flavius Jovianus orders the burning of the Library of Antioch. An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all Gentiles that worship their ancestral Gods or practice Divination (“sileat omnibus perpetuo divinandi uriositas”). Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order the confiscation of all properties of Pagan Temples and the death penalty for participation in Pagan rituals, including private ones. And I posed the question what of the peoples who existed prior to the establishment of Christendom as a full blown religion. If you dont see the relevance, then why even bother with a ridiculous and unhelpful response? I can only wonder.
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Spider I think AB did make a valid point. If there was no "evil" or morally objectionable behavior or presumed "sinners" wouldn't the Protestants and the rest of them be out of business? You need us.
Krimsa, Would a law making all women in the world sex slaves be morally right? If not, then doesn't that mean that there are objective morals allowing people their life and freedom? If you actually believe that if religion was wiped out and that there was a law making child molestation legal, then child molestation wouldn't be evil... well, I really don't know what to say. I can't imagine how someone's thinking can get so screwed up. Are you asking me that question or telling me? Well it should be no surprise to you spider that in fact one of my largest complaints with the bible is the misogynistic undertones in which it expounds. You dont really require for me to start posting these examples do you? Try scrolling back a few pages on this same thread. The ladies of Zion and what god felt appropriate to do with their "hidden parts" No, thats why Im not a Christian and I refuse to subscribe. I dont like it at all. I cant stand for that lack of basic understanding and compassion for half of humanity. It bothers me. I wont make any secret of my grievances with Christianity or any of its misguided indoctrinations as it relates to women. The true Creators. I personally rely on my own conscious to provide me with an accurate moral compass to guide my action under questionable circumstances. I do not rely on religion to explain right and wrong or good and evil for me. I can distinguish this in my own head and heart. In fact all humans can unless they are mentally compromised in some respect. The only other psychiatric problem that I can think of off hand would be the designation of sociopath or another form of borderline personality disorder. Incidentally, its noteworthy that many people that have been associated with religious cults have been diagnosed sociopaths. But there is a serious flaw with your objection to christianity based on the Laws of the jews. Christianity does not arrive in the text until you get to the New Testament - at which time, non of the things you are objecting to are practices of the church. By the time you get to reading the N.T., and discover that the authors of the godpels and letters have the same objections you do - then what? |
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