Nope, you aren't close with that.

We exist to bring Glory to God. By living good lives and accepting Jesus as our Lord, we can do just that. If we fulfill our purpose, we will be rewarded. You know that commandment "Honor thy mother and father"? That's saying the same thing. We are to honor our creator and he will, in turn, honor us.

tribo:

it's a crime that god created man with the propensity for sin to meet his ego maniacal needs or desires with the thought in mind to destroy them for his purposes for not acting in a way that suited him. he is guilty as charged! i know of no one that asked to be born did you? this life we have is not a gift spidey, this is an experiment that's gone awry. no ones to blame for it but the creator as you see him.

spidey:

You know what? I like being alive. Existence beats non-existence. I didn't ask for life, but I appreciate the chance to live. For God to give me life and thoughts and a chance to express myself and experience love and joy and pain and sadness...I'll be forever thankful.

tribo:

that's only because you've lived that you can say or feel as you state spidey - had you never been born none of this good or bad would be of any consequence correct? So this is all statements "after the fact" of having been born into this and accepting what you prefer to accept, no more no less. if you enjoy it because of your assurance with god or is that "insurance"? so be it,but in no way does that or should that involve what others prefer as for me i would rather have not been, but i was not given the choice, so what supposedly will befall me according to this god is his doing not mine. therefore my stance - if for whatever reason i was to be sent out of this gods presence because i do not accept his will for me - i will feel no guilt as to my stance. and if allowed i will tell him just what i state in this thread.


SPIDEY:

As far as life being an experiment gone awry, sounds like that's sour grapes. You know what is expected of you, but you don't want to live up to your purpose.

TRIBO:

not really spidey I'm talking from a point of disbelief to begin with, i don't really take it seriously like you, so no sour grapes just facts based on what i see stated as who or what god is and his resposibilty as this god.

Tribo,

All of the Christians telling you and showing you that you don't understand Christianity doesn't seem to deter you on your holy crusade to destroy all that is holy. I don't know why you are so filled with anger and hate, but I encourage you to let go. If you don't let go of your anger it will kill you. Pure and simple.

Once again... HuH???!!!
How could you possibly know what I believe my beliefs have never been tainted by blind obediance to the tools of man...More important... How could you link morals to a simple statement on the value of pure hearts. If no one is tainted by a belief that what THEY have been taught is the only MORAL way. (i.e. Only christians will survive so force christianity on everyone...or... Only Muslims that kill christians will go to heaven). You seem to have an outrageous attachment to rape/murder/molestation... Whats up with that?
by my lights... If you commit rape or murder on a member of my family you will never do it to another... You see it ain't a sin for me to kill you to protect my own. It's just not a good idea unless you be screwing with me or my community since in my way of think I do not have the right to interfere with your progress in life.

1.)I do not accept your premise that your creator god Jehovah gave me life. My life is manifested from Prime Source directly and I am part of that Prime source. No creator god can deny me the right to that spiritual existence or life or take it away. Your god owes me nothing and I owe him nothing.

2.)You assumption that there is only one "right" way is false. All religions would have you believe this lie to keep you in their fold.

I do honor my creator, Prime Source. I do not worship lessor creator gods.

Of course I believe that I should not lie or steal or kill. All of these things come natural to a person who lives the law of love.

I don't need a lessor god spouting his silly rules and commandments at me and telling me that if I disobey him that the penalty is hell or death. I don't worship false gods or creator gods. I am free. Soul is free.

The nature of the commandments are irrelevant. If "Free Will" is a fact you cannot call them "commandments" you must call them "suggestions."

The law of cause and effect and the law of Karma is enough to guide people in what they should and should not do and their inner connection to their true source will guide them in the laws of love. Love = Law of Vibrational energy. The law of attraction is the law of vibrational energy.

JB

the ONE... Allthings.

Good point on the 'commandents'. I talked to a biblical scholar who states that the proper translation of what is currently called 'thou shalt not' is actually 'Thou should not'. There is a huge diference between the two words one 'shalt not' limits choice the other 'should not' gives one the choice to obey or not.

Gloria Jean said:

Tribo you just like to argue. I am not at all convinced that you believe any of what you say. You just like to harass the Christians.

TRIBO REPLY:

how am i harassing C's by posting a thread about gods faults? i can't talk to him direct like they say they can so i have ot use them as am medium to tell god what i think -

JB:

However, on the chance that you really do believe what you are saying, then you are just whining and blaming (the Christian concept of) "God" for everything you don't happen to like about the world and mankind.

tribo:

yes i'm a whiny little boy throwing a fit or temper tantrum screaming and yelling because i want my own way -boo hoo hoo -

NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!

JB:

I would like to know what you truly believe and why you are so hung up and angry with Christianity in general?

I suspect you are an angry atheist who once believed the lie and now you want to challenge it.

TRIBO:

then your memory fails you goddess, we have talked in the past about my beliefs to an extent but you know i will not state them on here - you will again have to be patient till i finish my book. nope not an atheist - remeber creative force? so why would you even say that?
what you call or see as "angry" is meant by me to be challenging, i dont get angry easily, [most of the time] and if i do i calm down quickly, its only a forum after all right? i still believe if all here were talking other than personal beliefs and gods if we met we would get along quite famously - so no no anger there.

JB:

I know and I have already stated why I detest Christian doctrine. I believe it all to be a fabrication with an agenda to control the hearts and minds of the masses.

TRIBO:

ad naseum -

But you are in a rut, hanging yourself up and wasting time on details within the dogma of the doctrines that are a moot point anyway.

What is your true agenda? If you seek to tear down Christianity what do you have that is better or that can replace it?

Your message so far is that mankind is a selfish creature. Not very uplifting.

TRIBO:
as to these last statements, the only thing i will address is selfishness - i don't see selfishness as being necessarily good or bad - i see it as the center or core of what we are and why we act or do what we do, that can be from good self motives or bad depending what it is - and totally an individual thing for everyone, but to many as you put a total negative label on it evidently and in so doing see it as less than i as to all of what happens here in this world as why were are how we are.

I take it futher when talking to C's as in this thread because they would see it as only good concerning there god - i'm just bringing forth the thoughts that god as we has negative bad evil thoughts also, otherwise he would be incomplete in that area and this god is not supposed to be incomplete thus you have to recognize this in order to balance this god out.

That is HUGE difference. These little mistranslations have totally distorted the Biblical teachings.

JB,

Then you lose me...You want to say my God created us to be slaves, but you reject the teachings of Christianity that say otherwise. That's very one sided of you. If you won't want to accept Jesus, then fine. But how can you justify in your own mind ignoring 90% of another belief to revile a characture of the other 10%?

I agree that "God" and even worshiped creator gods are both good and evil. None of them are "perfectly good" as none of us are perfectly good. We are just perfect.

Perfect is a balance, and a functional whole.

Prime Source is just the core of all things, the primitive raw source of all energy and consciousness and it is in the creative process of expanding and manifesting outward..

I can also see selfishness as a positive as long as you are aware that all is self.

The teachings of Christianity don't say otherwise. They promise that you will be taken to heaven and that you will serve in God's kingdom for eternity and that you will be well taken care of and provided for. (Much like Masters take care of their slaves.)

Freeing someone from one kind of bondage just to take them into another kind of bondage is still slavery and servitude. It may look more pleasant but servitude is servitude.

It is hard to separate what the doctrine teaches from what might have really been going on, but the doctrine teaches that the penalty for sin (disobedience) is death and someone must pay the price for that. It teaches that Jesus paid the price for your sin so now it wants you to follow him to serve with him in heaven.

If Jesus paid the price for your sin why should you be required to give over your soul for eternity to him and serve him forever in heaven? Why can't you just say Okay, thank you for paying my debt and setting me free?

But NO, that's not the bargain. If you accept Jesus as your savior, you are not expected to follow him and worship him and serve him for eternity. Why?

Because he bought and paid for your soul. You are now his slave.

JB

Every major religion?

That's a crock of bull.

There is nothing in Buddhism that says that if you don't follow Buddism you are on the wrong path.

In fact, there are many major religions that don't preach arrogance.

On the contrary the Bible-based or Mediterranean-based religions about the only truly arrogant religions in the world.

Only Christianity claims that a person much accept Jesus Christ as their savior or they will be damned to hell.

In fact, this is a truly unscrupulous fear tactic that doesn't fit in with the notion of a genuinely loving God.

This is the kind of oppressive gabarge that mortal facist dictators try to use to oppress people.

This kind of a tactic is actually an ungodly tactic. Thing is nothing divine about such a disgusting tactic.

And it most certainly isn't common to every major religion. That's a falsity right there.

Wicca is most certainly a major religions. There can be no doubt about it. Christians have been murdering Wiches for millennia and they haven't even come close to being able to snuff them out.

Clearly Wicca is stronger than Christianity since it has survived Christianity's brutal hatred.

Yet this clearly superior religion doesn't demand that you follow it, nor does it claim to be the only path.

It has survived without proselyizing, murdering and threatening people to believe in it.

Christianity would have most likely died out long ago if it hadn't been FORCED onto people via violence, bloodshed and hate.

Christianity is the epitome of hatred spred in the name of God.

There is nothing divine about this hateful creed.

How dare you suggest that all major religions are as dispicable as Christianity. What an insult to all the truly decent loving people of the world.

I would also need to beg to differ with that comment Spider. Yes you are correct in that the "Big Three" Mediterranean based theologies, Christianity, Judaism and Islam, ALL tend to enforce their indoctrinations as being the ONE true way and all those that choose a different spiritual path are in league with Satan and bound for hell (or whatever they determine to be proper condemnation in their particular estimation.)


Wicca does not promote that agenda at all. There is no proselytizing whatsoever. In fact, Wiccans expect ALL of their potential adherents to research the religion on their own to make certain it is something they can get on board with and associate themselves. They do not go door to door, they do not get paid or achieve any higher status in their coven based on enrollment. Its a totally different mindset. Wiccans also do not condemn others. They harbor no resentment towards Christians in general. They may have individual practitioners who are angry, but that is strongly disapproved of. Especially in light of the fact that two wrongs do not make a right and Christians were also put to death by Roman Pagans at one point in history.

It's interesting that you and AB think along the same lines or perhaps you are simply using his Strawman instead of looking at what I posted?



Notice that I didn't say anything about proselytizing? No, but if you ask a devote Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jew or Christian if their religion is the only right one, the answer will be "yes". That's the point I was making, which you even agreed with, but then you took exception with the strawman fallacy constructed by Abra; namely: All religions proselytize.

You don't have to add anything to what I post, if it's not clear, then ask for clarification, but never assume to know what I meant.

If you are interested, by adding this:



Both you and Abra added the above to what I said and in both cases you are putting words into my mouth.

Alright Spider calm down. I just thought that you were asserting that ALL religions feel that way and it isnt the case. Its a crucial differentiation but if I misinterpreted your comment, pardon me.

I am perfectly calm and there is no "if". You and Abra added words that weren't intended or implied.

Now please tell me...what in my post made me sound "uncalm"? Or in reality was that a defense mechanism so that you can pretend that I overreacted to your innocent mistake?

spidey, i've heard you say the words god is dead and jesus is crap - so is that putting words in your mouth?

Spider,

Well all the unnecessary quoting and defensive posturing implied you were irritated plus our past history has been somewhat contentious on here. Lets not drag all that up now.

All I was doing was explaining (or basically elaborating on an established premise) that not all religions insist that you MUST adhere to one set of beliefs. In this case Wicca was deliberately interjected as an example presumably because of its growing status in the US as a major religion over the past decade. That may or may not be a good thing in my estimation but so far, some of the problems exhibited in the world's substantive theologies seem to be noticeably absent in Wicca.

Tribo,

What's the point of this? You are so childish, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that you are 13. I think a village somewhere is regretting buying their fool a computer....

Christianity has a history of murdering it's completion. In fact, that's it's hallmark.

It even murder other Christians that disagree with the more powerful churches.

There were Christians called Cathers who believe in Jesus, but denounced the Old Testament as having been the word of Satan.

They also didn't believe that Jesus was crucified. They didn't believe that Jesus actually took the form of a mortal man, they believed that God is spirit and would not dirty himself by becoming a mortal man.

The Pope was outraged by this Christian view and ordered armies to mass murder them. And they did. And that was the end of the Cathers.

Feral often argues that Christianity must be true because of it's longevity. But that longevity only came to be because of the fact that Christians are murderers. They murder their completion whether it be witches, heathens, or other Christians who take a different view on who and what Jesus represents.

Christianity today is just a result of the survival of the cruelest.

It not only suggests that it might be the only way to God, but it would kill anyone who suggested otherwise.

Do you realize that even the Great Isaac Newton had to suppress his discovery that the Bible is inconsistent and can't possible be true? Had he voiced his opinion on that he would have risked being hung as a heathen.

And that was only about 300 years ago!

Christians have been ruthless and murderous. There is nothing divine about Christianity at all.

It's a murderous religion. The only thing that keeps Christians from murdering heathens today are the governmental laws that were put into effect by atheists.

Christianity has no moral values at all. They have a history of murdering anyone who dares to disagree with them.

They don't even know the meaning of the word love.