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| Topic: IS GOD RESPONSABLE FOR EVERYTHING OR NOT | |
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able, AND willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. - Epicurus Evil is necessary, so that we can choose to do good. Good exists without evil, but we cannot make the choice to do good without us having the ability to choose to do evil. |
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eljay wrote: However - for the sake of argument - I will return to my former post of accepting for the moment that evil is something that exists beyond a lack of righteousness, and re-introduce the idea of your posturing some alternative action on God's part that would have eliminated man's ability to be evil, without having to give up freedom of choice. Since - if I'm not mistaken, you find that he is a fool and lacks in wisdom for having allowed this into creation in the first place. tribo replies: well I've actually stated it before Lar, but this time you want to add barrier's to it, guidelines i have to stay with in, but I'll say it as i already have before - """don't create man to begin with""" . be "satisfied" with what you've already created, you seen what happened with the angels rebelling, why continue - whats the point? ask yourself god - do you really "NEED" more people to worship you? knowing that most won't and you'll end up destroying them anyway? what's the point? are you that needy that you have to put man in harms way to serve your purposes? You just can't live without mans serving you and praying and worshiping you? what's the point? Sorry god if your ego is that big and you need to be worshipped to feel good about yourself, find another way, destroy all the bad angels and and create more good ones - or cant you destroy them? - maybe it will work out better the second time around. And at least if you must - be courteous enough to ask me if I'd like to participate in your plans!! i wish you no ill just leave me out of it!! I wasn't informed of any rules or regulation i'd have to follow, nor was i given the choice of being born, yet you condemn me to hell for not wanting to play? What's the point? you give me freedom of choice? but only after the fact? No! freedom of choice is having it before the game begins - allowing me to review the rules and regulations and making a sound and logical choice to participate if i want to. as i said - you should have stopped with the animals, you yourself said they were good, and you gave them no freedom of choice so they would not rebel against you correct? but noooooo, you wanted some creation that would worship you by choice - out of love and gratitude - how's that working out for you? Yeah so i can see. Hmmm... This thread has added a number of pages since I last viewed it. Forgive me for having had to take so long to catch up. So... for the sake of those who see themselves as the center of all things, and having done so, chose themselves instead of God you would have God not create man? Makes no sense. Remember - God gives every man/woman the desires of their heart. For those who's desire is not to "play along" and see him to be that which - through His prophets - he claims to be, he gives them exactly what they desire: Their eternity separate from him. Now, if he is as he claims to be, the creator of all things, than those who spend eternity apart from him are getting exactly what they want... However, that is not to say that they are allowed to get the eternity that they have created for themselves through either their own imagination - or that of someone else, so if their destination is hell (assuming there is one) they are going there, not because they chose to be there, but because they have chosen not to be with God, and all that there is in that reality is that which he created. Essentially for the same reason we live here on earth and not on Jupiter. For we know that Jupiter is there, but despite any desire we may have to relocate there and occupy it as an alternative to earth, it's not happening. Simply put - it's the way it is. so - we live here on earth and make the best of it. Now - on the other hand, there are those who - for whatever personal reason, be it looking up from the low of lows, or having been introduced to it in their youth, and never having found reason to turn away - chose God. Most of these (at least an overwhelming majority of those whom I have crossed paths with) find no fault with the plan of God, and go through life accepting the blessings, and dealing with the obstacles. For it is more often than not that those who are believers in God suffer the consequences of those who are not - and it would be nice if the option to eliminate such as these were readily available - but, alas - it's not. Just like relocating to Jupiter is not an option. Now - despite the fact that there is a lot of things within life on this planet that cry out - SCREAM out to be remedied, the end of war, poverty, hate, bias, bigotry, the list goes on... It has never seemed to be within the desires of man to stop these things. They cry out to God to end these things, then tell the homeless guy on the street to "get a job", since they themselves can't get a clue. So - while it may be true that evil exists, and if you wish, God created it - he's never been one to twist any one's arm to participate in it, or to be a part of it. That I'm afraid is entirely man's doing. And I don't get the sense that just not creating man is a solution to eliminating his propensity to be evil, without giving up his free will. That isn't a solution that is better than what God offers. He offers His son as a solution. What you suggest is no solution at all. For by it - you punish the righteous for the acts of the selfish, thereby catering to the wishes of those who's very intent is self centered, despite the consequences to those around them. Is that not attempting to eradicate evil by evil? I don't punish anyone eljay, here again as usual your speaking of "after the fact" situations - everything you tell that is wrong with my view refers back to mankind that exist and how god looks at it and you from the point of existence. Such comments as self centered, center of all things, wanting their way, etc.. well maybe their are those who do - that has nothing to do however with god being responsible of bringing the potential for sin/evil into creation. Before the beginning of creation there was what? - >>>god<<< - nothing else! Everything that proceeded from that point is gods handiwork, talk of all the things that eminate after the time of creation do not enter the picture my friend - its moot! the question [or statement] remains - who is responsible for everything that happens? the answer is god. if this is true then god is the only one blame-able for allowing sin/evil potential to exist inside or outside creation. continued talking about what mans responsibilities are or should be or might be or can be is of no avail, it's moot. challenging my statement that god should have stopped with the animals and then bringing man back into the picture to say what you do, is moot, leave uncreated man out of the scenario and you have no case at all. yet you want to put on me the idea that thats not fair, thaat i am in someway condemning the good with the bad by not allowing god to create mankind? that somehow i or my atatement is unjust or not allowing others to exist? how my friend - if man is not created would he know anything to begin with or make any statements or be emotional or rational in any way what so ever? You cannot feel justice or injustice if you never existed! you cannot be mad or happy or anything else, you can't rant against something that doesn't exist to rant about can you? Am i missing something here? can man if he never existed have a voice in anything, a thought of anything, a feeling of anything? how? So if thats the case, how would my reccomendation for him to have stopped with the animals be in some way hurting anyone or anything - OTHER than gods own original flawed plan? {flawed in the sense of you asking what i would have done diff.] Only god himself had selfish desires to bring about man to add in the creation scenario for his own egomaniacal reasons and if thats the case then my statement stands unabridged and straight foward once again - it is his fault that sin/evil came into existance to begin with, not mans. now go back and brush up on your cult books and get ready for a visit form the next wave of cultist knocking at your door -  
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Edited by
tribo
on
Tue 10/21/08 08:37 AM
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ELJAY said: While you may see this as an example of what you are refering to - you are sighting this passage to support a pretext. It is not the context of scripture that God "creates" evil. Also - the text is setting up the extreme of opposites to illustrate a point. The opposite you want this to refer to is "good" - however the text states "peace". Not the same thing. In the NIV the text is translated "I bring prosperity and create disaster". In light of what Isaiah is writing about - this understanding is not that to which you are refering to in your OP. In order to get an accurate picture to you OP - one should study out the idea of Good and evil, and how these terms are referenced or related to God - to see if in fact this passage is refering to God creating evil. To fully satisfy your interpreteation, shouldn't the passage say "I created evil"? For that is what you are wanting me to interpret it as saying. I can't agree with your conclusion on the interpretation of this passage supporting your argument that this is a biblical concept - it only supports your pretext. TRIBO: tell me which one of the translations whether it be the niv, KJV, LXX, YOUNGS, or the myriad of others does not translate evil as - any of the definitions given in strongs? - whether it be evil, disaster, calamity, or several other - are they not all at thier core EVIL things? Or do you concider any of them good? if so which ones? it's not pretext my freind it's what i see as the definition - to me all those words are evils not goods or even acceptable as some type of righteousness in favor of gods character as you see or view him. evil is evil be it linked with peace or good or pleasure ad infinitum. are some things concidered more and less evil? by whom - you and me? so what- were not talking you or me's concept or tolerant levels were talking what the word means - unrighteousness, less than perfect , unworthy behavior for me or a god, non virtous actions of some type. etc.. we could continue this for weeks. But your correct my OP was about whether gods responsible for everything or not - and i still say he is the very fact that he and he alone brought everything about accordint to his wishes based on his scenario and want and needs, there is no one else to blame - the buck stops with him there is no one else to point a stick at and say he did it. Despite hat you may think - it is exactly that: Pretext. That is not to say that the context may not be in line with what you are presuming the text to be, but you stated your premise in the OP and grab this text to support it. That's attempting to prove your point by pretext - not context, else you should be finding other texts that support your premise as context. Attempting to associate calamity with evil is a shifting middle. God may cause the sky to bring forth rain at an accelerated rate - thereby causing flooding to occur. That is a calamity. But when a man murders another, that is not a calamity - that's merely evil. These two are not equal concepts, but by your "supportive passage" you would have it be presumed as such. That's pretext. Remember my friend - your dealing with a former Cultist here. I know my pretext. Are you sure your a former cultist?? 
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eljay, bottom line is this, you want to believe the agenda, that for what ever reason god set this whole thing in motion to produce a people that would end up worshipping him out of love for who and what he is and what he does. i'm not saying that's a wrong thing for a emotional god, an egotistical god to want, it sounds like any benevolent human put in the same role as him [if there ever was any benevolent rulers]. For me i have an incredibly hard time, no an impossible time believing in a god that's supposed to be perfect - yet is so emotional, to me perfection and emotions dont fit - either for your god or any god. i won't hang my hat on a being that proclaaims to be perfect and yet has the flaw of emotions to be lead by in all that it does. I beleive that emotions are mans not its, that only a flawed being would introduce emotions into the mix of a god. We see that through-out the history of gods [even if you want to take JB's dracos and others into account - even they have a range of emotions. There cannot exist a perfect god who has or works off of an emotional foundation, it can't work!! i would expect god to be more like spock of star treck, using his infinie knowledge and power and all else to bring about what he intends without emotions or emotional attachments. you know as well as i emotions can't be trusted. how many times have you seen a scenario where someone's upset ad crying and you say something to them to get them to laugh for a few seconds and then they go right back to crying again? i've seen it lots! or - loving someone for a time and then have it go bad and feeling the exact oposite towards them for whatever reasons? you know what i'm saying. emotinal people [all of us!] are not capable of perfection and that a big part of the reason why. to be continued nowhere through with this subject yet - on to the creation scenario next. But you speak of emotions as universally negative. I don't share that perspective. Emotions in and of themselves are not negative, acting negatively based on emotion is what is negative. Emotions are merely thoughts that bring about awareness. Those that tend to be sensed as negative are mere triggers for examining a situation for the reality of perception. Fear, love, hate, rage, all feelings that are triggered by a perception that initially miht be based on conjecture that is false. It is a natural part of existance. Without it - we could not survive. So how is God hampered by emotion? The difference between human emotion and the emotion of god, is that man is unsure of the nature of his emotions in the absolute - whereas God's emtions come from a realm of total absolute. The difficulty you are having is equating the emotions of God with those of men and the means of which they originate. This is a fallacy, because they are in no way related. eljay if man had not been created i say again emotions would not even be an issue that would be taking place or being discussed its really a side issue as we are now, the crux still remains no creation of man/angels - no propensity for sin/evil - bottom line buck stops with god and his choices and his motivations. |
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able, AND willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. - Epicurus Evil is necessary, so that we can choose to do good. Good exists without evil, but we cannot make the choice to do good without us having the ability to choose to do evil. This only holds true spidey for the fact that it is a fact that god created man to begin with see my rely to eljay! if man had not been created then this would be a moot point. The FACT that he did shows a selfish intent of god to do so without concern for man to begin with - why create something you know will have the potential to go against that which you claim to hate? I'll tell you why - because he wanted it to be so!! thus my statement holds true - god is resposible for bringing about sin/evil so that man would respond as he did to fufill gods purposes, he is guilty as charged! |
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able, AND willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. - Epicurus Evil is necessary, so that we can choose to do good. Good exists without evil, but we cannot make the choice to do good without us having the ability to choose to do evil. This only holds true spidey for the fact that it is a fact that god created man to begin with see my rely to eljay! if man had not been created then this would be a moot point. The FACT that he did shows a selfish intent of god to do so without concern for man to begin with - why create something you know will have the potential to go against that which you claim to hate? I'll tell you why - because he wanted it to be so!! thus my statement holds true - god is resposible for bringing about sin/evil so that man would respond as he did to fufill gods purposes, he is guilty as charged! Guilty of what? Creating you and giving you the ability to determine your own way in life? That's a crime? I think you are way off base and you should speak with a bit more respect for the being who created the universe and gave you life. |
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able, AND willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. - Epicurus Evil is necessary, so that we can choose to do good. Good exists without evil, but we cannot make the choice to do good without us having the ability to choose to do evil. This only holds true spidey for the fact that it is a fact that god created man to begin with see my rely to eljay! if man had not been created then this would be a moot point. The FACT that he did shows a selfish intent of god to do so without concern for man to begin with - why create something you know will have the potential to go against that which you claim to hate? I'll tell you why - because he wanted it to be so!! thus my statement holds true - god is resposible for bringing about sin/evil so that man would respond as he did to fufill gods purposes, he is guilty as charged! Guilty of what? Creating you and giving you the ability to determine your own way in life? That's a crime? I think you are way off base and you should speak with a bit more respect for the being who created the universe and gave you life. Spider my mother gave birth to me and gave me life last I checked. Same with your mom. Its how it works. Dont go re-writing evolutionary biology here. 
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able, AND willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. - Epicurus Evil is necessary, so that we can choose to do good. Good exists without evil, but we cannot make the choice to do good without us having the ability to choose to do evil. This only holds true spidey for the fact that it is a fact that god created man to begin with see my rely to eljay! if man had not been created then this would be a moot point. The FACT that he did shows a selfish intent of god to do so without concern for man to begin with - why create something you know will have the potential to go against that which you claim to hate? I'll tell you why - because he wanted it to be so!! thus my statement holds true - god is resposible for bringing about sin/evil so that man would respond as he did to fufill gods purposes, he is guilty as charged! Guilty of what? Creating you and giving you the ability to determine your own way in life? That's a crime? I think you are way off base and you should speak with a bit more respect for the being who created the universe and gave you life. it's a crime that god created man with the propensity for sin to meet his egomaniacal needs or desires with the thought in mind to destroy them for his purposes for not acting in a way that suited him. he is guility as charged! i know of no one that asked to be born did you? this life we have is not a gift spidey, this is an expierment thats gone awry. no ones to blame for it but the creator as you see him. |
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able, AND willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. - Epicurus Evil is necessary, so that we can choose to do good. Good exists without evil, but we cannot make the choice to do good without us having the ability to choose to do evil. This only holds true spidey for the fact that it is a fact that god created man to begin with see my rely to eljay! if man had not been created then this would be a moot point. The FACT that he did shows a selfish intent of god to do so without concern for man to begin with - why create something you know will have the potential to go against that which you claim to hate? I'll tell you why - because he wanted it to be so!! thus my statement holds true - god is resposible for bringing about sin/evil so that man would respond as he did to fufill gods purposes, he is guilty as charged! Guilty of what? Creating you and giving you the ability to determine your own way in life? That's a crime? I think you are way off base and you should speak with a bit more respect for the being who created the universe and gave you life. it's a crime that god created man with the propensity for sin to meet his egomaniacal needs or desires with the thought in mind to destroy them for his purposes for not acting in a way that suited him. he is guility as charged! i know of no one that asked to be born did you? this life we have is not a gift spidey, this is an expierment thats gone awry. no ones to blame for it but the creator as you see him. You know what? I like being alive. Existence beats non-existence. I didn't ask for life, but I appreciate the chance to live. For God to give me life and thoughts and a chance to express myself and experience love and joy and pain and sadness...I'll be forever thankful. As far as life being an experiment gone awry, sounds like that's sour grapes. You know what is expected of you, but you don't want to live up to your purpose. Man has a propensity for sin? Hmmmm. Maybe, but I think that's due to what? Pride. SIN. A sin that starts in the heart by saying "I know a better way". You choose to sin and your sin of pride causes you to disobey your creator and commit further sins. To exonerate yourself from your obvious guilt you try to lay blame at your creator. Jesus is willing to take your sins, not your guilt. |
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able, AND willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. - Epicurus Evil is necessary, so that we can choose to do good. Good exists without evil, but we cannot make the choice to do good without us having the ability to choose to do evil. This only holds true spidey for the fact that it is a fact that god created man to begin with see my rely to eljay! if man had not been created then this would be a moot point. The FACT that he did shows a selfish intent of god to do so without concern for man to begin with - why create something you know will have the potential to go against that which you claim to hate? I'll tell you why - because he wanted it to be so!! thus my statement holds true - god is resposible for bringing about sin/evil so that man would respond as he did to fufill gods purposes, he is guilty as charged! Guilty of what? Creating you and giving you the ability to determine your own way in life? That's a crime? I think you are way off base and you should speak with a bit more respect for the being who created the universe and gave you life. it's a crime that god created man with the propensity for sin to meet his egomaniacal needs or desires with the thought in mind to destroy them for his purposes for not acting in a way that suited him. he is guility as charged! i know of no one that asked to be born did you? this life we have is not a gift spidey, this is an expierment thats gone awry. no ones to blame for it but the creator as you see him. You know what? I like being alive. Existence beats non-existence. I didn't ask for life, but I appreciate the chance to live. For God to give me life and thoughts and a chance to express myself and experience love and joy and pain and sadness...I'll be forever thankful. As far as life being an experiment gone awry, sounds like that's sour grapes. You know what is expected of you, but you don't want to live up to your purpose. Man has a propensity for sin? Hmmmm. Maybe, but I think that's due to what? Pride. SIN. A sin that starts in the heart by saying "I know a better way". You choose to sin and your sin of pride causes you to disobey your creator and commit further sins. To exonerate yourself from your obvious guilt you try to lay blame at your creator. Jesus is willing to take your sins, not your guilt. Man has a propensity for sin? Why should we not... We ARE created in his image. That which you call sin based upon targeted control teachings is not a sin when one lives life as we should... Free from guilt, free from fear, free from worry, free from falsness. Breath deep of the spirit that is. Worry not about the things that are only vain imaginings. |
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able, AND willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. - Epicurus Evil is necessary, so that we can choose to do good. Good exists without evil, but we cannot make the choice to do good without us having the ability to choose to do evil. This only holds true spidey for the fact that it is a fact that god created man to begin with see my rely to eljay! if man had not been created then this would be a moot point. The FACT that he did shows a selfish intent of god to do so without concern for man to begin with - why create something you know will have the potential to go against that which you claim to hate? I'll tell you why - because he wanted it to be so!! thus my statement holds true - god is resposible for bringing about sin/evil so that man would respond as he did to fufill gods purposes, he is guilty as charged! Guilty of what? Creating you and giving you the ability to determine your own way in life? That's a crime? I think you are way off base and you should speak with a bit more respect for the being who created the universe and gave you life. it's a crime that god created man with the propensity for sin to meet his egomaniacal needs or desires with the thought in mind to destroy them for his purposes for not acting in a way that suited him. he is guility as charged! i know of no one that asked to be born did you? this life we have is not a gift spidey, this is an expierment thats gone awry. no ones to blame for it but the creator as you see him. Tribo you just like to argue. I am not at all convinced that you believe any of what you say. You just like to harass the Christians.  However, on the chance that you really do believe what you are saying, then you are just whining and blaming (the Christian concept of) "God" for everything you don't happen to like about the world and mankind. I would like to know what you truly believe and why you are so hung up and angry with Christianity in general? I suspect you are an angry atheist who once believed the lie and now you want to challenge it. I know and I have already stated why I detest Christian doctrine. I believe it all to be a fabrication with an agenda to control the hearts and minds of the masses. But you are in a rut, hanging yourself up and wasting time on details within the dogma of the doctrines that are a moot point anyway. What is your true agenda? If you seek to tear down Christianity what do you have that is better or that can replace it? Your message so far is that mankind is a selfish creature. Not very uplifting. JB  |
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Man has a propensity for sin? Why should we not... We ARE created in his image. That which you call sin based upon targeted control teachings is not a sin when one lives life as we should... Free from guilt, free from fear, free from worry, free from falsness. Breath deep of the spirit that is. Worry not about the things that are only vain imaginings. I never want to know your god. It's disturbing that some people don't believe in an absolute morality. How someone could reject their and their own families worth in that way is beyond my comprehension. |
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able, AND willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. - Epicurus Evil is necessary, so that we can choose to do good. Good exists without evil, but we cannot make the choice to do good without us having the ability to choose to do evil. This only holds true spidey for the fact that it is a fact that god created man to begin with see my rely to eljay! if man had not been created then this would be a moot point. The FACT that he did shows a selfish intent of god to do so without concern for man to begin with - why create something you know will have the potential to go against that which you claim to hate? I'll tell you why - because he wanted it to be so!! thus my statement holds true - god is resposible for bringing about sin/evil so that man would respond as he did to fufill gods purposes, he is guilty as charged! Guilty of what? Creating you and giving you the ability to determine your own way in life? That's a crime? I think you are way off base and you should speak with a bit more respect for the being who created the universe and gave you life. it's a crime that god created man with the propensity for sin to meet his egomaniacal needs or desires with the thought in mind to destroy them for his purposes for not acting in a way that suited him. he is guility as charged! i know of no one that asked to be born did you? this life we have is not a gift spidey, this is an expierment thats gone awry. no ones to blame for it but the creator as you see him. You know what? I like being alive. Existence beats non-existence. I didn't ask for life, but I appreciate the chance to live. For God to give me life and thoughts and a chance to express myself and experience love and joy and pain and sadness...I'll be forever thankful. As far as life being an experiment gone awry, sounds like that's sour grapes. You know what is expected of you, but you don't want to live up to your purpose. Man has a propensity for sin? Hmmmm. Maybe, but I think that's due to what? Pride. SIN. A sin that starts in the heart by saying "I know a better way". You choose to sin and your sin of pride causes you to disobey your creator and commit further sins. To exonerate yourself from your obvious guilt you try to lay blame at your creator. Jesus is willing to take your sins, not your guilt. pride is one of what you call the seven deadly sins - the core sin is selfishness something else gave us on purpose, i'm glad you like your life spidey more power to you - but this is not about whether one likes there life or not - it's about who is responsible for sin/evil in this life existing - the blame falls on god not man. it is a fact! that god created everything according to you and others and therefore is guilty as charged! |
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it's a crime that god created man with the propensity for sin to meet his egomaniacal needs or desires with the thought in mind to destroy them for his purposes for not acting in a way that suited him. he is guility as charged! i know of no one that asked to be born did you? this life we have is not a gift spidey, this is an expierment thats gone awry. no ones to blame for it but the creator as you see him. According to Christian DewDrew in this thread: http://mingle2.com/topic/show/173960 He says that all men have a sinful nature because they are all descendents of Adam who had defective DNA. So we have no choice but to be sinners, and apparently neither did Adam. So if we accept Christian DewDrew's assessment then it wasn't an experiment that went wrong, but instead it was a set-up from the word go. Mankind never had a choice. He was given bad DNA from the get-go. This makes God appear to be a truly manipulative diety who set man up for the fall just to watch him beg for mercy. Clearly it can't be true. Either men truly have a CHOICE,... In which case it cannot be proclaimed that all men are sinners since that would deny them a CHOICE. Or they have no CHOICE, in which case they can't be held responsible. The very basis of the Biblical accusations are oxymoronic. All men are sinners, and Every man has free Choice to sin or not to sin, simply aren't compatible ideals. This is where the Christians have shoved their foot in their dogmatic mouths. They demand to have their cake and eat it too. Clearly they are evil people who support a dogmatic facism that rapes everyone from their freedom of Choice but at the same time accuses them of being guilty of having made a choice. It's the epitome of ignorance and arrogance. It's the most disgusting religion on the planet. It implies that God is disgusting and decietful. It's a hateful religion. Not only is it hateful toward men, but it's also hateful toward God because of all the terrible things that it so carelessly implies about him. It's not even a well-thought-out dogma. Much less being the perfect word of a genuine suprement being. The Bible is a disgrace to any truly divine being. It's an insult to God to even suggest that the Biblical myth came from her.  And then to suggest that She is a He and He is a male-chauvinist pig is injury on top of insult. Christians should be burning their Bibles at the stake if they have even the slightest respect for the creator of this universe.  |
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pride is one of what you call the seven deadly sins - the core sin is selfishness something else gave us on purpose, i'm glad you like your life spidey more power to you - but this is not about whether one likes there life or not - it's about who is responsible for sin/evil in this life existing - the blame falls on god not man. it is a fact! that god created everything according to you and others and therefore is guilty as charged! I don't believe in seven deadly sins, why don't you stick to what you know (hint hint: I'm not something you know). God is responsible for the possibility of sin existing. Sin is created by the choices of free moral agents, such as you and me. God cannot be blamed for our actions. At worst, you can blame God for making sin possible. But if sin wasn't possible, then I suppose independent thought wouldn't be possible either. So you are blaming God for you existing, which is a very fallacious position. |
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Man has a propensity for sin? Why should we not... We ARE created in his image. That which you call sin based upon targeted control teachings is not a sin when one lives life as we should... Free from guilt, free from fear, free from worry, free from falsness. Breath deep of the spirit that is. Worry not about the things that are only vain imaginings. I never want to know your god. It's disturbing that some people don't believe in an absolute morality. How someone could reject their and their own families worth in that way is beyond my comprehension. Huh?... I have rejected nothing... And everyone believes in my god (though not in the WAY I do) for there IS only ONE god though the PATHS to that god are many the destination is ONE. What did my statement above have to do with morality... Either some real morality or one imposed by a sour little book? You know my god... From the very fiber of your being you know. My worth and the worth of the generations that proceeded mine is not mine to judge. I can only have judgement on my self worth... and on the purity of my heart which comes before justice. |
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Man has a propensity for sin? Hmmmm. Maybe, but I think that's due to what? Pride. SIN. A sin that starts in the heart by saying "I know a better way". You choose to sin and your sin of pride causes you to disobey your creator and commit further sins. To exonerate yourself from your obvious guilt you try to lay blame at your creator. Jesus is willing to take your sins, not your guilt. Spider, Do you think your creator god created people because he wanted to rule over them and tell them what to do and how to live and to receive worship from them? Do you think god created us as pets or servants or slaves? Obey your creator? Why? To be coerced into obedience is slavery, pure and simple. Did your god create humans as slaves? If not, then why insist that they obey him? Why make a law that to disobey is a sin and that the wages of sin is death? Is that not slavery? Is that not coercion? Don't skirt around the answers to this question please. Don't spout something about the gift of "free will" because I don't buy that propaganda. Your god does not condone free will because the "WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH" SIN IS DISOBEDIENCE. That is NOT free will, that is slavery. JB |
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Man has a propensity for sin? Why should we not... We ARE created in his image. That which you call sin based upon targeted control teachings is not a sin when one lives life as we should... Free from guilt, free from fear, free from worry, free from falsness. Breath deep of the spirit that is. Worry not about the things that are only vain imaginings. I never want to know your god. It's disturbing that some people don't believe in an absolute morality. How someone could reject their and their own families worth in that way is beyond my comprehension. Huh?... I have rejected nothing... And everyone believes in my god (though not in the WAY I do) for there IS only ONE god though the PATHS to that god are many the destination is ONE. What did my statement above have to do with morality... Either some real morality or one imposed by a sour little book? You know my god... From the very fiber of your being you know. My worth and the worth of the generations that proceeded mine is not mine to judge. I can only have judgement on my self worth... and on the purity of my heart which comes before justice. You reject your families worth, because you believe that if it was the law of the land that they could be murdered, then it wouldn't be wrong to murder them. If nothing is fundamentally morally objectionable, then everything is moral. Every horrible, disgusting act that the human mind can conceive of is equally moral. Walking an old lady across the street or rape and murder her...both are on the same moral grounds. Either you aren't thinking very hard about the subject or you are a dangerous person. |
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able, AND willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. - Epicurus Evil is necessary, so that we can choose to do good. Good exists without evil, but we cannot make the choice to do good without us having the ability to choose to do evil. i get it now man is a scientific study as to the nature of reaction out come is man going to be basically good or evil hows it feel to be a lab rat |
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Man has a propensity for sin? Hmmmm. Maybe, but I think that's due to what? Pride. SIN. A sin that starts in the heart by saying "I know a better way". You choose to sin and your sin of pride causes you to disobey your creator and commit further sins. To exonerate yourself from your obvious guilt you try to lay blame at your creator. Jesus is willing to take your sins, not your guilt. Spider, Do you think your creator god created people because he wanted to rule over them and tell them what to do and how to live and to receive worship from them? Do you think god created us as pets or servants or slaves? Obey your creator? Why? To be coerced into obedience is slavery, pure and simple. Did your god create humans as slaves? If not, then why insist that they obey him? Why make a law that to disobey is a sin and that the wages of sin is death? Is that not slavery? Is that not coercion? Don't skirt around the answers to this question please. Don't spout something about the gift of "free will" because I don't buy that propaganda. Your god does not condone free will because the "WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH" SIN IS DISOBEDIENCE. That is NOT free will, that is slavery. JB Your thinking is based on several assumptions: 1) You have a right to life in a metaphysical sense. False. God gave you life, sustains your life and can end your life at any time. God owes you nothing. 2) There is more than one right way. False, at least from the position of EVERY major religion. Every religion believes that there is only one right way. Common sense tells us that every way cannot be right. Simply put, if you enjoy existing, then you should honor your creator. Has God imposed such strict laws on us? Don't murder, don't lie, don't steal...is that really so terrible? So God's guilt is that he expects us to treat each other with love and respect? And what? If we choose to treat each other as savages God should grant us eternal life and cater to our needs? |
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