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| Topic: IS GOD RESPONSABLE FOR EVERYTHING OR NOT | |
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But, doesn't God know who will choose him and who will not before they are even born? So, knowing most would not choose him, he created them anyway with the full knowledge that they would "suffer the consequences".
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SO IF GOD SAID HE KNEW US EVEN BEFORE WE ENTERED THE WOMB....THEN WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 THAT FOLLOWED SATAN WHEN HE FELL TO EARTH FROM GODS GRACE, AND GOD GAVE US A CHANCE BY FREE WILL AND GRACE TO REPENT FROM OUR EVIL WAYS AND TO RETURN TO HIM THRU CHRIST, RATHER THAN DIE FOR ALL ETERNITY FOLLOWING SATANS DEVASTATING LIES AND TRICKERY. WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 OF ALL OF HEAVENS ANGELS
THE FALLING ONES.....THIS IS LIKE A LAST SHOT FOR A REALLY GOOD DEAL, FREE WILL TO LIVE AND MAKE CHOICES, RIGHT? |
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Edited by
SkyHook5652
on
Mon 10/20/08 08:18 AM
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Hi jfrog88. Welcome to the forum. Hope you're wearing your "thick" skin. You're right in that he knows the who, what and when, but he doesn't have the ability to stop us. The closest he can get to controlling our actions is through the self-conscience which the holy spirit within us. have you heard the phrase "you can lead a deer to water, but you can't make it drink?" That quote directly applies here in that God can give you guidance, but he can't stop you from doing what you're doing or about to do. God had given us free will and the only way to stop one from committing a certain sin is for the person them self to no longer have to desire. If you are going to commit and sin (for example, steal something from somewhere or someone) If you have that thought in your head, and you really want to do it, but somehow you had your hands and feet chained to a fence, in the eyes of God, the fact that you would still do it were you not chained up, is considered a sin. Things can get a little rough around here sometimes. But in general we're mostly a fairly respectful lot - mostly  Here's my take. God didn't create sin, only the ability to do so. By giving man(people in general, not just males) free will, and the ability to do as we wish, he had given us the ability to sin. God did this, because he knew that man would fall from grace, knowing the difference between good and evil through the temptation of Lucifer. God did this, so that we would be able to make a choice, to either live a life of sin, living only to please the flesh with the things of the world, or choose to live a righteous life, glorifying Him. God didn't create man to be robots, to forcefully worship Him but to give Him glory and honor out of our own free will. It's not like God put man on the Earth and was surprised that Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he knew they would. It was because of that action that we as people now have the decision to live for the world with temporary satisfaction, eventually falling to Hell along with Satan, or to live a life that pleases our Father and rising up to Heaven to live forever with God and truly love him, not just loving him because he makes us love him, but with all our heart, of our own free will. So now I'm curious - what exactly are the abilities of this god? What else is he unable to do? If he can't stop me from doing what I want to do, can he force me to do what I don't want to do? And how does this relate to the alleged heaven and hell? Can he stop me from going to heaven? Can he force me to go to hell? |
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SO IF GOD SAID HE KNEW US EVEN BEFORE WE ENTERED THE WOMB....THEN WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 THAT FOLLOWED SATAN WHEN HE FELL TO EARTH FROM GODS GRACE, AND GOD GAVE US A CHANCE BY FREE WILL AND GRACE TO REPENT FROM OUR EVIL WAYS AND TO RETURN TO HIM THRU CHRIST, RATHER THAN DIE FOR ALL ETERNITY FOLLOWING SATANS DEVASTATING LIES AND TRICKERY. WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 OF ALL OF HEAVENS ANGELS THE FALLING ONES.....THIS IS LIKE A LAST SHOT FOR A REALLY GOOD DEAL, FREE WILL TO LIVE AND MAKE CHOICES, RIGHT? It just doesn't really seem like free will if he already knows what we are going to choose. If he loves us so much why would he create a person he knew was destined to burn in hell for all eternity? |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 10/20/08 09:13 AM
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SO IF GOD SAID HE KNEW US EVEN BEFORE WE ENTERED THE WOMB....THEN WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 THAT FOLLOWED SATAN WHEN HE FELL TO EARTH FROM GODS GRACE, AND GOD GAVE US A CHANCE BY FREE WILL AND GRACE TO REPENT FROM OUR EVIL WAYS AND TO RETURN TO HIM THRU CHRIST, RATHER THAN DIE FOR ALL ETERNITY FOLLOWING SATANS DEVASTATING LIES AND TRICKERY. WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 OF ALL OF HEAVENS ANGELS THE FALLING ONES.....THIS IS LIKE A LAST SHOT FOR A REALLY GOOD DEAL, FREE WILL TO LIVE AND MAKE CHOICES, RIGHT? It just doesn't really seem like free will if he already knows what we are going to choose. If he loves us so much why would he create a person he knew was destined to burn in hell for all eternity? Ruth I think because its fun. This almost reminds me of the Greco/Roman pantheon. Those Gods and Goddesses were consistently meddlesome into the lives of humans and they would routinely temp them with amoral behaviors or attempt to create some scenario that would set them up for failure. No different than god as far as I can tell. The only difference there was you had several arguing and bickering with one another and choosing human favorites as opposed to the one supposedly omniscient deity. |
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Hi jfrog88. Welcome to the forum. Hope you're wearing your "thick" skin. You're right in that he knows the who, what and when, but he doesn't have the ability to stop us. The closest he can get to controlling our actions is through the self-conscience which the holy spirit within us. have you heard the phrase "you can lead a deer to water, but you can't make it drink?" That quote directly applies here in that God can give you guidance, but he can't stop you from doing what you're doing or about to do. God had given us free will and the only way to stop one from committing a certain sin is for the person them self to no longer have to desire. If you are going to commit and sin (for example, steal something from somewhere or someone) If you have that thought in your head, and you really want to do it, but somehow you had your hands and feet chained to a fence, in the eyes of God, the fact that you would still do it were you not chained up, is considered a sin. Things can get a little rough around here sometimes. But in general we're mostly a fairly respectful lot - mostly Here's my take. God didn't create sin, only the ability to do so. By giving man(people in general, not just males) free will, and the ability to do as we wish, he had given us the ability to sin. God did this, because he knew that man would fall from grace, knowing the difference between good and evil through the temptation of Lucifer. God did this, so that we would be able to make a choice, to either live a life of sin, living only to please the flesh with the things of the world, or choose to live a righteous life, glorifying Him. God didn't create man to be robots, to forcefully worship Him but to give Him glory and honor out of our own free will. It's not like God put man on the Earth and was surprised that Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he knew they would. It was because of that action that we as people now have the decision to live for the world with temporary satisfaction, eventually falling to Hell along with Satan, or to live a life that pleases our Father and rising up to Heaven to live forever with God and truly love him, not just loving him because he makes us love him, but with all our heart, of our own free will. So now I'm curious - what exactly are the abilities of this god? What else is he unable to do? If he can't stop me from doing what I want to do, can he force me to do what I don't want to do? And how does this relate to the alleged heaven and hell? Can he stop me from going to heaven? Can he force me to go to hell? Actually I believe he is right. The Lesser God who claims to have "created" mankind and demands worship of his authority is not so all powerful that he could force anyone to think feel or choose to worship him because this lesser god is not prime source, he is merely a ruler on some level of the universal mind worlds. The Will is inherent in all conscious manifestations and cannot be taken away or given by any creator god. Soul is free, but many lesser gods will attempt to enslave it and control it. jb |
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SO IF GOD SAID HE KNEW US EVEN BEFORE WE ENTERED THE WOMB....THEN WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 THAT FOLLOWED SATAN WHEN HE FELL TO EARTH FROM GODS GRACE, AND GOD GAVE US A CHANCE BY FREE WILL AND GRACE TO REPENT FROM OUR EVIL WAYS AND TO RETURN TO HIM THRU CHRIST, RATHER THAN DIE FOR ALL ETERNITY FOLLOWING SATANS DEVASTATING LIES AND TRICKERY. WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 OF ALL OF HEAVENS ANGELS THE FALLING ONES.....THIS IS LIKE A LAST SHOT FOR A REALLY GOOD DEAL, FREE WILL TO LIVE AND MAKE CHOICES, RIGHT? It just doesn't really seem like free will if he already knows what we are going to choose. If he loves us so much why would he create a person he knew was destined to burn in hell for all eternity? God knows the future. In other words, if something isn't going to happen, God doesn't know it. Before you are created, God knows your life and destiny, but ONLY because you are going to exist. Everything that you do is your choice, so you have free will. It doesn't matter that God knows what your actions will be. God loves everyone and blesses and tests each of us. |
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God doesnt test anyone, the world and its circumstances tests us. We either rise to the occasion or wallow in self pity.
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Mon 10/20/08 09:26 AM
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SO IF GOD SAID HE KNEW US EVEN BEFORE WE ENTERED THE WOMB....THEN WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 THAT FOLLOWED SATAN WHEN HE FELL TO EARTH FROM GODS GRACE, AND GOD GAVE US A CHANCE BY FREE WILL AND GRACE TO REPENT FROM OUR EVIL WAYS AND TO RETURN TO HIM THRU CHRIST, RATHER THAN DIE FOR ALL ETERNITY FOLLOWING SATANS DEVASTATING LIES AND TRICKERY. WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 OF ALL OF HEAVENS ANGELS THE FALLING ONES.....THIS IS LIKE A LAST SHOT FOR A REALLY GOOD DEAL, FREE WILL TO LIVE AND MAKE CHOICES, RIGHT? It just doesn't really seem like free will if he already knows what we are going to choose. If he loves us so much why would he create a person he knew was destined to burn in hell for all eternity? God knows the future. In other words, if something isn't going to happen, God doesn't know it. Before you are created, God knows your life and destiny, but ONLY because you are going to exist. Everything that you do is your choice, so you have free will. It doesn't matter that God knows what your actions will be. God loves everyone and blesses and tests each of us. What is known are the probabilities. What is known are all the possible choices to be made. But no god knows what choices you will make because there is only the present moment. Hence until the choice is made, the future is not clear. The probability exists but the final outcome is not clear until the choice is made. God does not live in the future or the past and neither do we. Everything that lives and exists does so in the present moment. Once the choice is made, the future can be seen. JB |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Mon 10/20/08 09:30 AM
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I believe people (incarnates) test themselves in cooperation with their true (higher) self who sends its life stream to the earth to experience being human.
We test ourselves. Even coming here was a great test. JB |
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God doesnt test anyone, the world and its circumstances tests us. We either rise to the occasion or wallow in self pity. did you miss the book of job and it kinda answers this debate as well |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 10/20/08 09:40 AM
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God doesnt test anyone, the world and its circumstances tests us. We either rise to the occasion or wallow in self pity. did you miss the book of job and it kinda answers this debate as well I certainly did not. Did you not read one of my responses on that thread? That is a fable and it is one of several depicted in the bible. fable Definition fa·ble (fā′bəl) noun 1. a fictitious story meant to teach a moral lesson: the characters are usually talking animals 2. a myth or legend 3. a story that is not true; falsehood 4. Archaic the plot of a literary work And Im uncertain as to which debates have supposedly been resolved? Perhaps to your satisfaction but not to mine or obviously several others participating on thread. |
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SO IF GOD SAID HE KNEW US EVEN BEFORE WE ENTERED THE WOMB....THEN WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 THAT FOLLOWED SATAN WHEN HE FELL TO EARTH FROM GODS GRACE, AND GOD GAVE US A CHANCE BY FREE WILL AND GRACE TO REPENT FROM OUR EVIL WAYS AND TO RETURN TO HIM THRU CHRIST, RATHER THAN DIE FOR ALL ETERNITY FOLLOWING SATANS DEVASTATING LIES AND TRICKERY. WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 OF ALL OF HEAVENS ANGELS THE FALLING ONES.....THIS IS LIKE A LAST SHOT FOR A REALLY GOOD DEAL, FREE WILL TO LIVE AND MAKE CHOICES, RIGHT? It just doesn't really seem like free will if he already knows what we are going to choose. If he loves us so much why would he create a person he knew was destined to burn in hell for all eternity? God knows the future. In other words, if something isn't going to happen, God doesn't know it. Before you are created, God knows your life and destiny, but ONLY because you are going to exist. Everything that you do is your choice, so you have free will. It doesn't matter that God knows what your actions will be. God loves everyone and blesses and tests each of us. What is known are the probabilities. What is known are all the possible choices to be made. But no god knows what choices you will make because there is only the present moment. Hence until the choice is made, the future is not clear. The probability exists but the final outcome is not clear until the choice is made. God does not live in the future or the past and neither do we. Everything that lives and exists does so in the present moment. Once the choice is made, the future can be seen. JB God lives outside of our dimension of time, therefore the future is already set from God's perspective. While we swim around in a fishbowl of time, God exists in an infinite dimension of time. Our time is finite, science has already determined that the Universe had a beginning and will have an end and time is part of our universe. |
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I believe people (incarnates) test themselves in cooperation with their true (higher) self who sends its life stream to the earth to experience being human. We test ourselves. Even coming here was a great test. JB I share this belief in that we come here to learn. Testing our selves might suggest a sort of competativeness. My guess is that this aspect is human-made and not necessarily purposed along with our higher selves. |
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Edited by
splendidlife
on
Mon 10/20/08 09:49 AM
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SO IF GOD SAID HE KNEW US EVEN BEFORE WE ENTERED THE WOMB....THEN WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 THAT FOLLOWED SATAN WHEN HE FELL TO EARTH FROM GODS GRACE, AND GOD GAVE US A CHANCE BY FREE WILL AND GRACE TO REPENT FROM OUR EVIL WAYS AND TO RETURN TO HIM THRU CHRIST, RATHER THAN DIE FOR ALL ETERNITY FOLLOWING SATANS DEVASTATING LIES AND TRICKERY. WHAT IF WE ARE THE 1/3 OF ALL OF HEAVENS ANGELS THE FALLING ONES.....THIS IS LIKE A LAST SHOT FOR A REALLY GOOD DEAL, FREE WILL TO LIVE AND MAKE CHOICES, RIGHT? It just doesn't really seem like free will if he already knows what we are going to choose. If he loves us so much why would he create a person he knew was destined to burn in hell for all eternity? God knows the future. In other words, if something isn't going to happen, God doesn't know it. Before you are created, God knows your life and destiny, but ONLY because you are going to exist. Everything that you do is your choice, so you have free will. It doesn't matter that God knows what your actions will be. God loves everyone and blesses and tests each of us. What is known are the probabilities. What is known are all the possible choices to be made. But no god knows what choices you will make because there is only the present moment. Hence until the choice is made, the future is not clear. The probability exists but the final outcome is not clear until the choice is made. God does not live in the future or the past and neither do we. Everything that lives and exists does so in the present moment. Once the choice is made, the future can be seen. JB God lives outside of our dimension of time, therefore the future is already set from God's perspective. While we swim around in a fishbowl of time, God exists in an infinite dimension of time. Our time is finite, science has already determined that the Universe had a beginning and will have an end and time is part of our universe. This makes complete sense. To me. |
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God knows the future. I have just one yes-or-no question regarding "God knows your life and destiny": Can that destiny be changed? In other words, if something isn't going to happen, God doesn't know it. Before you are created, God knows your life and destiny, but ONLY because you are going to exist. Everything that you do is your choice, so you have free will. It doesn't matter that God knows what your actions will be. God loves everyone and blesses and tests each of us. |
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God knows the future. I have just one yes-or-no question regarding "God knows your life and destiny": Can that destiny be changed? In other words, if something isn't going to happen, God doesn't know it. Before you are created, God knows your life and destiny, but ONLY because you are going to exist. Everything that you do is your choice, so you have free will. It doesn't matter that God knows what your actions will be. God loves everyone and blesses and tests each of us. No. Would you like me to explain my answer or is just the word "no" good enough. |
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You people and satan test me every day in here.
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 10/20/08 10:03 AM
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If destiny is pre-determined, then whats the point? If no matter what I or anyone else do, the result is set to come out to what god has already determined, then why bother? Is that also assuming that whether someone chooses to accept god or not, this destiny is still what he has intended from the start? I am quite uncomfortable with this concept. It would appear to infringe upon free will.
 Are we simply wind up toys for god's amusement? |
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Edited by
SkyHook5652
on
Mon 10/20/08 10:03 AM
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God knows the future. I have just one yes-or-no question regarding "God knows your life and destiny": Can that destiny be changed?In other words, if something isn't going to happen, God doesn't know it. Before you are created, God knows your life and destiny, but ONLY because you are going to exist. Everything that you do is your choice, so you have free will. It doesn't matter that God knows what your actions will be. God loves everyone and blesses and tests each of us. 
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