were talking on another thread about mans fall and some say its Satan who caused sin and others Adam and eve for eating and i who say it's god's fault!!

So here's my case in a nut shell - god started creation, god knew how everything would go, god decided to allow sin to enter into existence - therefore god is responsible for sin.

God allowed sin to enter the earth so people would know right from wrong, thats my view on it anyhow.

If you assume there is a God and He did that stuff, fine, it makes sense.

I don't believe that God or sin exist as anything other than words, delusions, and misconceptions. In my view, God cannot have created sin because neither is real.

god allows for the existence of sin
god allows us to make our own virtue and sin
in that sense god is responsible for everything
by giving us a certain measure of independence



in that sense god is not directly responsible for individual sins
other choices could have been made

Sin - as far as we can tell started in heaven not on earth with lucifers rebellion.if he then allowed it to be a thing to deal with on earth through using satan to lie to eve about the fruits potential, then that was his doing for allowing it to happen, not satans fault - not adam/eve's fault - but gods - where does the buck stop? who initiated creation, who planned it out? who is able to say to the maker blame me!! who do you give credit to for starting this whole mess?

so your saying had the devil not tempted, the outcome would have been different? if so then - how would that have served god's plan's or purpose of providing a savior? no need for a savior? well then why bother to create anything to begin with then if the end purpose was to provide a means for man to be saved from the lies of the devil leading to disobedience by A&E?

I'll accept that as a viable answer.

Completely subjective...

Who is God? Is "He" exactly the same for everyone?

No.

It/He even differs from one Christian to another.

NO ONE PERSON HAS THE EXACT SAME PERCEPTION AS ANOTHER.

Can't ideas of what or who God is morph in each new moment?

Whatever jump-started creation probably wasn't all that deeply concerned with exactly how the minds of man would conjure up ways to judge one another. Sin is a word created by man.


How can one really say that God is responsible for something created and defined by man?

i don't think i've ever ran into a believer in the book god that did not believe he is the creator of all things and is also omnipotent, omnisient, and infinite in every way - have you really know someone who is a true born again believer that thinks otherwise really? were not talking a general acceptence here but what those hold as being a truly born again beleiver in god, jesus, and the book.

Are we only talking about Christians here?

In that case, I guess I have no place in this thread.

yep monothistic believers of the evangelical kind who were on the other yhread - i wont mention deb or MS names but they are some one you know. - now this doesn't leave you out my lady, but it does limit the subject matter a little- you can always just flirt with me if your bored -

God gets all of the credit and none of the blame.

Oh man! I wish I had that luxury! Must be nice!

Let's face it, the worst God does is to "Work in Mysterious ways"...how....convenient.

Adam and Eve caused their own fall. This world is the dominion of the False God of the Earth.HE (and us)are responsible for everything here.We are in control.The True God is in Heaven.

Monkey, monkey, monkey, who is the creator? A&E? who is the god of this world? Satan? and who created Satan/Lucifer? A&E? no! god created all. if sin did not exist before god created everything including angels, then god is responsible for sin. Why? well simple if god is the creator then he is responsible for what he creates angel's, man, animals etc.. therefore what ever actions are produced by them either good or evil is because he allowed it to be by the simple fact that he brought it into existence. which begs the question - would sin exist if god had not created? if the answer is no - then who do you say is responsible then? if the answer is yes - then you have to agree that it is gods fault. you must also take into account that the same thing would be true of any good that was done or accomplished by his creations, would you then answer such as you have if the question was - is god responsible for everything that's good? if your answer is yes, then it would only hold that the opposite would also hold true correct?

Why so worried about sin? Why the need to blame it on someone?

"Sin" is basically "disobedience" against the all Mighty ruler in heaven who so many people worship as God.

(This ruler is not Prime Source!)

He is just another ruler who demands worship and obedience. Yes, he is responsible for inventing the idea of "sin."

Or whoever invented religion is responsible for the idea of "sin."

So if you disobey this tyrant who calls himself the almighty God, then you have "sinned."

jb

Mankind has free will. There is a True God in Heaven and False God of the Earth. As a matter of fact, there are many false gods on the Earth: us. What you (and others)are calling god is the False God of the Earth. Thats what Im saying.The Jealous God is in Heaven.The Jealous God is not in control of this world.

ahhh - then you are talking of another god then not the jehhovah god of the bible - sorry MM, my mistake. i was speaking of the biblical god the monotheistic god. not some jealous god thats not in control - i'm not familiar with that one.

as old alfred E. N. use to say - what me worry? it has nothing to do with worry goddess, it has everything to do with other's blaming everything and every one accept who they wordhip as god.

it's either satans fault or A&E's fault or sodom and gamorras fault- my question is who created everything? and where does the blame lay? stop thinking your god is not capable of creating the circumstances in which the creation is blamed instead of the creator, if nothing existed, then there would be no sin or evil or good - the buck stops with their god. Harry S yawhey.

Then your not familiar with what the bible says.

this has all already happened! we are just playing the parts.