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| Topic: I'm just asking for clarification.... | |
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i have no issue with anyone believing in what every they want that is the beuty of free will that God has given to us.
but with that said there is still ultimatly a one true truth out there of which there are standards. you and i may disagree with whom and by what means and thats cool but no matter what 2+2=4. and as far as the hate spewed all i see in none believers spewing the hate we are just answering the question you have asked, i have no ill feeling towards you at all and i wish you well in your quest on your path. i ultimatly will answer to God for my actions and so i had to try and answer your question. that is all |
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i have no issue with anyone believing in what every they want that is the beuty of free will that God has given to us. but with that said there is still ultimatly a one true truth out there of which there are standards. you and i may disagree with whom and by what means and thats cool but no matter what 2+2=4. and as far as the hate spewed all i see in none believers spewing the hate we are just answering the question you have asked, i have no ill feeling towards you at all and i wish you well in your quest on your path. i ultimatly will answer to God for my actions and so i had to try and answer your question. that is all Nevermind, I don't know how to explain it to you in your terms. |
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np. thanks for the post feeel free to ask more!
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Well Kerry - I'm no saint. If I were to point a finger at J.D. for what he did in his life, I'm looking at him poining a finger at me. I'm not his judge. If God wants to forgive him to what he did to others, it only makes me feel a little beeter about his forgiving me for everything I've done. And if you think that God should be aborting all those that have been doing injustices to other people - what is the maximum number allowed? And what are you doing here? Unless you'd like to try and convince me you are blameless in your life for doing an injustice to anyone. If you'd like to take the "logical" approach to this, rather than the emotional. Well, if we're going with the "Mr. Spock" logical game face, you'd find me in person to be very like that, sticking more to the logical than the emotional. Having doctors tell you you're probably going to die unless you choose between several not-so-hot alternatives to save your life sort of does that to a survivor. And I'm not running for the office of 'God', I can't be Sainted because I'm not Catholic, and no, I haven't done an injustice to anyone that I recall in my lifetime. When my divorce attorney told me my Catholic ex (who was divorcing _me_ BTW, for 'incompatibility after 10 yrs of marriage) was asking for things she wasn't legally entitled to, I told him, to my own detriment, to give her everything she was asking for. If only the pure in heart can ask questions, it makes me wonder what there is to hide. I don't think my not being Catholic or Christian is an injustice to anyone. -Kerry O. Yes, I knew this about you (the logical end) and that you have had health issues in the past. I did not know about your relationship history - I empathise with you, having gone through a similarity. So - now the only question is whether the issue is quantitative or quality. Is it okay to lie every now and then - but murder is just too much? Can you "steal every now and then", as long as you balance it out with philanthropic endeavors. If one sees an injustice being done by some else - and does nothing about it, have they "done nothing wrong" because they chose to do nothing? Not to be "accusatory" about any injustices you may or may not have done - but it deals directly with the heart of the question being asked by viewing what people do and passing judgement on whether their actions are considered "unforgivable", and if so - what is the standard being established? That was sort of the point I was making - rather than you having to examine your actions in light of what others do. (Have I just started another thread?) I'm sure I'm guilty of a thoughtcrime or two (especially from the Christian perspective), but unlike Winston Smith in 1984, I've yet to agree that 2+2=5 to save myself. I strive always to treat people like I'd like to be treated. I believe as long as no one is harmed, one's private life is one's own business, so if some nosy moralizing ultra-religious person demands that I tell them something personal, I feel it's well within my right as a humanist to tell them "Ask me no secrets and I'll tell you no lies. Besides, it's NONE of your business." I would have spoken out against the Spanish Inquisition, just as I think our pious-acting government is wrong for torturing prisoners. I think there is a HUGE difference between murder and white lies, though. And I think that when Christianity treats both the same, IT creates a grave injustice to human beings by making them cannon fodder for the wars for validation of dogma. In short, I don't think my humble rags prevent me from pointing out that the Emperor hath no clothes. -Kerry O. |
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Edited by
Eljay
on
Sun 09/07/08 08:29 PM
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Well Kerry - I'm no saint. If I were to point a finger at J.D. for what he did in his life, I'm looking at him poining a finger at me. I'm not his judge. If God wants to forgive him to what he did to others, it only makes me feel a little beeter about his forgiving me for everything I've done. And if you think that God should be aborting all those that have been doing injustices to other people - what is the maximum number allowed? And what are you doing here? Unless you'd like to try and convince me you are blameless in your life for doing an injustice to anyone. If you'd like to take the "logical" approach to this, rather than the emotional. Well, if we're going with the "Mr. Spock" logical game face, you'd find me in person to be very like that, sticking more to the logical than the emotional. Having doctors tell you you're probably going to die unless you choose between several not-so-hot alternatives to save your life sort of does that to a survivor. And I'm not running for the office of 'God', I can't be Sainted because I'm not Catholic, and no, I haven't done an injustice to anyone that I recall in my lifetime. When my divorce attorney told me my Catholic ex (who was divorcing _me_ BTW, for 'incompatibility after 10 yrs of marriage) was asking for things she wasn't legally entitled to, I told him, to my own detriment, to give her everything she was asking for. If only the pure in heart can ask questions, it makes me wonder what there is to hide. I don't think my not being Catholic or Christian is an injustice to anyone. -Kerry O. Yes, I knew this about you (the logical end) and that you have had health issues in the past. I did not know about your relationship history - I empathise with you, having gone through a similarity. So - now the only question is whether the issue is quantitative or quality. Is it okay to lie every now and then - but murder is just too much? Can you "steal every now and then", as long as you balance it out with philanthropic endeavors. If one sees an injustice being done by some else - and does nothing about it, have they "done nothing wrong" because they chose to do nothing? Not to be "accusatory" about any injustices you may or may not have done - but it deals directly with the heart of the question being asked by viewing what people do and passing judgement on whether their actions are considered "unforgivable", and if so - what is the standard being established? That was sort of the point I was making - rather than you having to examine your actions in light of what others do. (Have I just started another thread?) I'm sure I'm guilty of a thoughtcrime or two (especially from the Christian perspective), but unlike Winston Smith in 1984, I've yet to agree that 2+2=5 to save myself. I strive always to treat people like I'd like to be treated. I believe as long as no one is harmed, one's private life is one's own business, so if some nosy moralizing ultra-religious person demands that I tell them something personal, I feel it's well within my right as a humanist to tell them "Ask me no secrets and I'll tell you no lies. Besides, it's NONE of your business." I would have spoken out against the Spanish Inquisition, just as I think our pious-acting government is wrong for torturing prisoners. I think there is a HUGE difference between murder and white lies, though. And I think that when Christianity treats both the same, IT creates a grave injustice to human beings by making them cannon fodder for the wars for validation of dogma. In short, I don't think my humble rags prevent me from pointing out that the Emperor hath no clothes. -Kerry O. Well - I'm not assuming that you are refering to me as that "nosy moralizing, etc, etc" - because I'm not demanding you provide anythnig personal for me. It was as a reference point to the matter of "Justice" that you brought up in the post that started all this. Without involving a presumption of the existance of the emporer, the real issue at hand is the justice in forgiving Dahmer for the autrociteis of his actions - as opposed to - say Jean Valdeen. If not for the inequality of the actions - what is the measuring stick by which to judge redemption. Be it Christian, Pantheist, New Age, Reincarnation.... Naturally - being Agnostic - the question is moot, but I have more respect for your ability to respond with logic, rather than from a presumption of faith - of any dogma, not just christian. I'm more interested in your perception of the flaws that christianity presents on this matter of Justice. And if there seems a more viable approach to a "measuring stick" for retribution. Of course - I also see where it would not be worth your time of even considering the question. |
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i have no issue with anyone believing in what every they want that is the beuty of free will that God has given to us. but with that said there is still ultimatly a one true truth out there of which there are standards. you and i may disagree with whom and by what means and thats cool but no matter what 2+2=4. and as far as the hate spewed all i see in none believers spewing the hate we are just answering the question you have asked, i have no ill feeling towards you at all and i wish you well in your quest on your path. i ultimatly will answer to God for my actions and so i had to try and answer your question. that is all I just popped in and read this post, I have not been following the conversation. I just want to ask this one question.... ...."non believers" in what? What are the "non believers" not believing? JB 
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Edited by
brandynicole
on
Sun 09/07/08 08:39 PM
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I am agnostic and have a real problem with the sceanario in the original post it seems awfully unfair the way we are supposedly judged and forgiven.
I didn't read all 16 pages of this conversation but I was wondering if any of you had head of "The Gospel of Inclusion"? |
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Well Kerry - I'm no saint. If I were to point a finger at J.D. for what he did in his life, I'm looking at him poining a finger at me. I'm not his judge. If God wants to forgive him to what he did to others, it only makes me feel a little beeter about his forgiving me for everything I've done. And if you think that God should be aborting all those that have been doing injustices to other people - what is the maximum number allowed? And what are you doing here? Unless you'd like to try and convince me you are blameless in your life for doing an injustice to anyone. If you'd like to take the "logical" approach to this, rather than the emotional. Well, if we're going with the "Mr. Spock" logical game face, you'd find me in person to be very like that, sticking more to the logical than the emotional. Having doctors tell you you're probably going to die unless you choose between several not-so-hot alternatives to save your life sort of does that to a survivor. And I'm not running for the office of 'God', I can't be Sainted because I'm not Catholic, and no, I haven't done an injustice to anyone that I recall in my lifetime. When my divorce attorney told me my Catholic ex (who was divorcing _me_ BTW, for 'incompatibility after 10 yrs of marriage) was asking for things she wasn't legally entitled to, I told him, to my own detriment, to give her everything she was asking for. If only the pure in heart can ask questions, it makes me wonder what there is to hide. I don't think my not being Catholic or Christian is an injustice to anyone. -Kerry O. Yes, I knew this about you (the logical end) and that you have had health issues in the past. I did not know about your relationship history - I empathise with you, having gone through a similarity. So - now the only question is whether the issue is quantitative or quality. Is it okay to lie every now and then - but murder is just too much? Can you "steal every now and then", as long as you balance it out with philanthropic endeavors. If one sees an injustice being done by some else - and does nothing about it, have they "done nothing wrong" because they chose to do nothing? Not to be "accusatory" about any injustices you may or may not have done - but it deals directly with the heart of the question being asked by viewing what people do and passing judgement on whether their actions are considered "unforgivable", and if so - what is the standard being established? That was sort of the point I was making - rather than you having to examine your actions in light of what others do. (Have I just started another thread?) I'm sure I'm guilty of a thoughtcrime or two (especially from the Christian perspective), but unlike Winston Smith in 1984, I've yet to agree that 2+2=5 to save myself. I strive always to treat people like I'd like to be treated. I believe as long as no one is harmed, one's private life is one's own business, so if some nosy moralizing ultra-religious person demands that I tell them something personal, I feel it's well within my right as a humanist to tell them "Ask me no secrets and I'll tell you no lies. Besides, it's NONE of your business." I would have spoken out against the Spanish Inquisition, just as I think our pious-acting government is wrong for torturing prisoners. I think there is a HUGE difference between murder and white lies, though. And I think that when Christianity treats both the same, IT creates a grave injustice to human beings by making them cannon fodder for the wars for validation of dogma. In short, I don't think my humble rags prevent me from pointing out that the Emperor hath no clothes. -Kerry O. I don't think its quantity or the quality as stated. To me biblically it is a comparative and i think that is being over looked. I'm an x christian but have a good grasp on the book so to say. what is happening i believe is the coparison is being made leaving gods nature and attributes out. if we compare ourselves to one another then their for sure is lots of room for those comparisons, but if we compare ourselves to a perfect being that is without sin such as the biblical god claims, the the comparison falls short. If sin is falling short of perfection, then anything we do that is "less" than perfection, is in this beings eyes a - sin. sin meaning less than perfection, less than hitting the very dead center of the bullseye when shooting. if that's understood, then it puts a different spin on those who think that little lies or actions are not bad as compared to murder. because we look at these with our own understanding an faulty comparitive, but if god truly cannot be connected in the least way with sin, [less than anything as perfect as himself,] then he cannot look at it our way, only from his point of view. if we take a different perspective we could say that you or I are perfect but we cannot abide peanuts. big little or any type of peanut's, we cannot be connected to them in anyway, they to us are an abomination, no matter how much everyone else may love them or accept them or say to us they are not bad - will change or stand about them we have an incredible intolreance to them and even the sight of them makes us ill. we must stay disconnected from them at all cost - now i know it's not exactly the same but i'm trying to get across how gods nature is towards being connected with sin.{imperfectness}. so what the book god/jesus is saying is you need some kind of way out of this dellema - jesus is supposedly perfect and died for peoples sins - therefore if you accept him your sins will be covered with his perfection and god will only see you as perfect because when he sees you he sees christ instead - that is what is meant by being in christ as part of HIS body you no longer are you but part of him and that's what god sees. so any sins you have[imperfections] are covered by his sacrifice and acceptance of his atonement, so if you sin afterwaords, and the accuser comes before god and says look at what so and so did, god looks and sees christ and turns back and says case dismissed. now do i care whether you believe this or not - nope but it how it is seen by orthodox christians. |
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I am agnostic and have a real problem with the sceanario in the original post it seems awfully unfair the way we are supposedly judged and forgiven. I didn't read all 16 pages of this conversation but I was wondering if any of you had head of "The Gospel of Inclusion"? Why do you think it is unfair to be judged and forgiven? Would you rather be judged and NOT forgiven? Would you rather not be judged at all? If so, then why are so many people concerned by horrible criminals being judged and forgiven and then going to heaven? Why do people judge criminals, child molester, murderers, rapists etc. and express concern that they might get into heaven if they repent? If you go to heaven and bump into a mass murderer like Hitler will you judge him and wonder how he got into heaven when your little cousin who died of cancer didn't? (If the Christian religion is true.. which I don't think it is..) Who should judge who? Should we not just judge ourselves? Who knows better what we have done than we do? Or will we judge ourselves too harshly or not harshly enough? JB |
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I am agnostic and have a real problem with the sceanario in the original post it seems awfully unfair the way we are supposedly judged and forgiven. I didn't read all 16 pages of this conversation but I was wondering if any of you had head of "The Gospel of Inclusion"? Why do you think it is unfair to be judged and forgiven? It's unfair that someone who has done nothing but good work's throughout there life will supposedly be in hell. I have no issue with murders or rapists being in Heaven if there is one. I cannot see the state of there heart when they die and won't judge them on past bad deeds. Would you rather not be judged at all? Sure, i'd rather noone be judged. If so, then why are so many people concerned by horrible criminals being judged and forgiven and then going to heaven? Why do people judge criminals, child molester, murderers, rapists etc. and express concern that they might get into heaven if they repent? I'm not concerned with that. I always thought God was loving and merciful but the Bible makes him sound totally different like a tyrant who want's you to be scared. I think that part was the contribution of Men to keep us in line. If I did believe in God it suits me to believe he is loving and merciful and Jesus died for all of our sins and we are all forgiven and there is no Hell. |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Sun 09/07/08 09:15 PM
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i have no issue with anyone believing in what every they want that is the beuty of free will that God has given to us. but with that said there is still ultimatly a one true truth out there of which there are standards. you and i may disagree with whom and by what means and thats cool but no matter what 2+2=4. and as far as the hate spewed all i see in none believers spewing the hate we are just answering the question you have asked, i have no ill feeling towards you at all and i wish you well in your quest on your path. i ultimatly will answer to God for my actions and so i had to try and answer your question. that is all I just popped in and read this post, I have not been following the conversation. I just want to ask this one question.... ...."non believers" in what? What are the "non believers" not believing? JB thatb you either accept jess as your lord and savior or you will not be with him in the next life. there is a great misunderstanding of heaven - heaven is to be where christ reigns- and that is to be on earth not up in the sky some where. and we wont have any memory of this life nor know people we know now. If there are dahmers and hitlers there we would not recognize them anyway so why the big deal of who is there it wont matter to anyone personally? hmmm? |
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i have no issue with anyone believing in what every they want that is the beuty of free will that God has given to us. but with that said there is still ultimatly a one true truth out there of which there are standards. you and i may disagree with whom and by what means and thats cool but no matter what 2+2=4. and as far as the hate spewed all i see in none believers spewing the hate we are just answering the question you have asked, i have no ill feeling towards you at all and i wish you well in your quest on your path. i ultimatly will answer to God for my actions and so i had to try and answer your question. that is all I just popped in and read this post, I have not been following the conversation. I just want to ask this one question.... ...."non believers" in what? What are the "non believers" not believing? JB New to the threads are you? Feel free to participate. All are welcome. If you need any help with the COMMON venacular, just go ahead and ask. I will have to warn you though - that there is a certian group of individuals who feel the need to draw EVERY topic into an attack on Christianity, try not to get caught up in it. And enjoy your time here. lj 
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i have no issue with anyone believing in what every they want that is the beuty of free will that God has given to us. but with that said there is still ultimatly a one true truth out there of which there are standards. you and i may disagree with whom and by what means and thats cool but no matter what 2+2=4. and as far as the hate spewed all i see in none believers spewing the hate we are just answering the question you have asked, i have no ill feeling towards you at all and i wish you well in your quest on your path. i ultimatly will answer to God for my actions and so i had to try and answer your question. that is all I just popped in and read this post, I have not been following the conversation. I just want to ask this one question.... ...."non believers" in what? What are the "non believers" not believing? JB That is a good point. I have never felt more confident in my "non-beliefs" than when I began visiting and participating in the religion forums. 
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 09/08/08 03:08 AM
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Okay then. Explain WHY the Muslim (this is a hypothetical) victim in this case would end up being condemned to hell and the murderer would go to heaven based solely on the fact that he "found jesus" in prison or some time before passing. And before you go too far in that direction, we all know how serious the devoutly religious can take the "thou shalt not kill" commandment....Should I start bringing up some talking points in history? Because the Muslim rejected Jesus, and the Murderer accepted him. Well thats a load of crap then, plain and simple. Its exclusionary, divisive, manipulative and nothing I would want to be involved with. But the important thing to keep in mind is that just because you may feel I am bound for hell as a "non-believer" postmortem, doesn't make it automatically so. I on the other hand, am not the type of person that would presume to project my ugly thoughts and feelings of condemnation and eternal purgatory upon you. You asked to explain "Why". Thus - the response. I don't "feel" one way or the other about you. Whereever you may "end-up" has nothing to do with what you might think "I feel", and everything to do with what YOU think. Why are you projecting my response onto yourself. Don't you think I'm capable of responding to your questions without you thinking I've somehow passed judgement on you, or that you are the center of my response? Do you think you are bound for hell? What is purgatory? Well if the Muslim girl chose not to accept the same god that you seem to feel is real on some level then according to you she is bound for hell. If I choose not to accept god in the same manner that you deem necessary for me to find salvation then I can only assume that I am going to hell for this implied "shortcoming". If Joe Smith down the road does not choose to accept Jesus as his savior nor god into his life, then according to you, he is bound for hell also. "...according to you she is bound for hell..." I will mail you my paychecks for the rest of my life if you can find a quote from me stating this anywhere on this entire site. Please don't put words in my mouth. I said "she would not be spending eternity with the Christian God in his heaven." NOT that she is bound for hell. The only one's speaking about hell on this thread are the non-christians. But the killer in this situation is somehow not going to hell because he chose to accept the same god that you choose to put your own faith in and proclaim as being real and factual. In fact, he may find his way into heaven. If the "killer" comes to the realization that he is a sinner (or was...) and realizes that Jesus died for his sins to reconcile him to God and asks God for forgiveness - the bible says he will be in Heaven with Jesus. I don't say anything about where he'll be - I didn't write the book. I don't ask that you think anything about me one way or another on a personal level as that is completely irrelevant to this discussion. I am however asking you to stand behind your words, quit dancing around them and give a direct answer. Thank you. Good - then don't start saying "You think", or "Christians think", and I won't pretend to claim I know how you think. I might ask you what you think, but I don't read minds, so I don't pretend to know how you think. The thing is - I answer all of your questions directly. Always have, always will. Are you joking? Oh, for pete's sake, Eljay, get a spine. Now its well she wont go directly to hell, but she certainly wont spend eternity with some fake godhead up in the clouds wearing white robes. Please...You are embarrassing yourself Well, since I've stated I don't know where she'll go, but I know where she won't be - then you tell me, Where is she going to end up? I'm under the impression that you think you know. Or are you in agreement with me on my perception? And once again, now you are afraid to admit that you said that if the sociopath that actually brutally murdered the Muslim girl simply "finds Jesus" while in prison, he will manage to get into heaven. Now its "I didn't write this book." Hey, I wouldn't stand behind it either. Dont blame you there. I'm not afraid to admit anythig. I don't infuse my interpretation of the text with my perceptions and infer that it is representative of "fact". I will say that I find the text to be believable. So it is for that reason I can state that if he has repented and put his faith in Jesus, he will spend eternity in heaven with Him. Eljay I could not care less what you think about me on any personal level. The same would apply as it relates to my feelings towards you. I am simply asking that you show some backbone. You should have developed one by now if evolution had anything to do with it. Say what you mean and make your point here. If I ask you a direct question, I would greatly appreciate a direct response in return. I'm being very careful to respond to your questions with what the text says, Krimsa - and I do so out of respect for you (whether you believe it or not) because I do not intend to sway your opinion of what you ask one way or the other by infusing my perception on textual interpretation. The extensive exegesis on "where does one end up if blaspheming the holy spirit" would fill a book - so cutting and pasting all of that onto the site would serve no purpose. No matter what anyone posts on "where they think" someone will end up, the only person who can be spoken for is ourselves - for we ultimately stand in judgement of ourselves only. To me - this is what is meant by "giving account for your life". Now if that is a response without a backbone, then what are you asking me to do - embellish my answers and infuse them with opinion? Are you asking me where they are going - or where I "think" they should be going? I responded to the former, because that is what you asked. If what you meant was the latter - than have a backbone, and say what you mean.  Purgatory definition-The word "purgatory" has come to refer to a wide range of historical and modern conceptions of postmortem suffering short of everlasting damnation, and is used, in a non-specific sense, to mean any place or condition of suffering or torment, especially one that is temporary. Purgatory is a term out of Catholicism - and is not referenced anywhere in scripture. It is religious dogma - and in my opinion, does not exist. The same would be said for "Limbo". Well so NOW your personal view (I don't believe for one minute any of this is based on actual unadulterated research on your part) is that she wont go to heaven but she will simply linger in between in some respect.Basically you are only saying that now as an attempt to appease the argument that has been generated on this thread and the outpouring of anger against the idea that the murderer of the Muslim girl will be able to spend his eternity alongside god in heaven if he only chooses to "find jesus" while in prison. That leaves his victim, the Muslim woman, according to you lingering in between heaven and hell for all eternity unless she chooses to accept Jesus as her savior. Thats a load of crap and we are back to square one. What if you will now linger in nothingness for all eternity because you have chosen to play ball with Jesus and not become Muslim? The point is, you cant disregard one belief in an invisible man over a belief in another invisible man. The same would apply to the rest of your "answer" except now its simply crumbling and falling apart. You are darn right the scripture is not based in any fact. It is a work written by men and has been utilized over the centuries to control people. You are clearly an example of this in my opinion. At least you admit it now. Its also been been reproduced several times The authorized King James Version is an English translation of the Christian Bible begun in 1604 and first published in 1611 by the Church of England. No one has been Blasphemous in this scenario. The Muslim girl had been a practicing Muslim for her entire life up until the point of her murder. She was never blasphemous of anyone. You seem to be assuming she is blasphemous in some respect simply because she never chose to accept Jesus as her personal savior. If she were to do that, then she would be turning her back on her own faith. Maybe she felt there was no reason to do that. There is a distinct difference between being disrespectful of a premise and simply having your own which you choose to adhere to. I gave you the definition of purgatory because you asked. I was kind of surprised honestly that you required that seeing as you have done such an "extended exegesis" of all of these concepts.Shouldn't you be more familiar with some of these terms as it relates to biblical reference? Cro-Mag was one thing as I know you are not strong in that area of science but "purgatory"? I have ALWAYS been straight forward with you eljay and will continue to be. Besides, purgatory would be just as likely to exist as your concept of hell. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 09/08/08 03:57 AM
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I am agnostic and have a real problem with the sceanario in the original post it seems awfully unfair the way we are supposedly judged and forgiven. I didn't read all 16 pages of this conversation but I was wondering if any of you had head of "The Gospel of Inclusion"? Why do you think it is unfair to be judged and forgiven? Would you rather be judged and NOT forgiven? Would you rather not be judged at all? If so, then why are so many people concerned by horrible criminals being judged and forgiven and then going to heaven? Why do people judge criminals, child molester, murderers, rapists etc. and express concern that they might get into heaven if they repent? If you go to heaven and bump into a mass murderer like Hitler will you judge him and wonder how he got into heaven when your little cousin who died of cancer didn't? (If the Christian religion is true.. which I don't think it is..) Who should judge who? Should we not just judge ourselves? Who knows better what we have done than we do? Or will we judge ourselves too harshly or not harshly enough? JB i think mankind will always judge itself less harsh than it could or should - human nature to make excuses for our own actions. We love ourselves therefore we find reasons to forgive our own actions but become visibly upset when we see others doing the same things because we know they are wrong. thus- judgementalness abounds. as to bumping into people in heaven like hitler or dahmer - again - there wont be any memory of these people once we die - if every demonic human in the world ended up in heaven[which according to god wont be the case] we would recognize none. orthodox view is that we will have a new body/mind/spirit that will have no past memories for us to be judgemental in anyway, lest it would not be the heaven described by god of eternal peace and harmony. None of the present garbage we now carry around in this flesh will be present to do so in the next life. |
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Edited by
Quikstepper
on
Mon 09/08/08 03:34 PM
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Yes well even parents give their children some leeway before they reign them in. Really? I don't, she is punished immediatly for her actions... LOL... WOW! You should read what you just wrote. God is mean in His punishments? How about YOU? LOL Now admit...that punishment is meant for good.  Maybe there needs to be better definitions of judgement correction & punishment...yu think? |
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Yes well even parents give their children some leeway before they reign them in. Really? I don't, she is punished immediatly for her actions... LOL... WOW! You should read what you just wrote. God is mean in His punishments? How about YOU? LOL Now admit...that punishment is meant for good. I never said it was mean, you implied that it was. I want her to know exactly where I stand on the rules, and the rules are for her developement. |
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Yes well even parents give their children some leeway before they reign them in. Really? I don't, she is punished immediatly for her actions... LOL... WOW! You should read what you just wrote. God is mean in His punishments? How about YOU? LOL Now admit...that punishment is meant for good. I never said it was mean, you implied that it was. I want her to know exactly where I stand on the rules, and the rules are for her developement. Lily I understood your comment to mean that you would discipline your daughter immediately following her poor behavior or bad judgment in order that she should learn that actions have direct consequences. This to me sounds like highly appropriate parenting. |
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Edited by
sgtpepper
on
Mon 09/08/08 03:51 PM
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In the Bible it says that if you repent/get saved/ accept jesus as your saviour (however you want to put it) you will be allowed into heaven and say Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gayce on his death bed was saved/repented/ accepted Jesus as his saviour is he in heaven? and on the flip side would his victims if not given the chance to be saved/repent/accepted jesus as their saviour are they in hell? God doesn't exist. Eljay wrote: I was talking to God the other day and He told me you don't exist. ROMEO: I dream'd a dream to-night. MERCUTIO: And so did I. ROMEO: Well, what was yours? MERCUTIO: That dreamers often lie. |
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