Eljay wrote:
There is a certian group of individuals who feel the need to draw EVERY topic into an attack on Christianity.

So - before I comment on this post. Do you believe in God? The one the bible describes, or some different God?

Yes, you could call us pissed off atheists. Remember us? Your kind tried to kill us off years ago when our logic challenged the ground your "very" fairy tales where created upon. Don't mind us though, ignorance is bliss.

Naturally - being Agnostic - the question is moot, but I have more respect for your ability to respond with logic, rather than from a presumption of faith - of any dogma, not just christian. I'm more interested in your perception of the flaws that christianity presents on this matter of Justice. And if there seems a more viable approach to a "measuring stick" for retribution. Of course - I also see where it would not be worth your time of even considering the question.

I am am totally disappointed in the sgtpepper no wonder you band was lonely......arr arr arr

lol. I dont want to change your beliefs. They are your own. I listen to the other side "christian opinion" every day. I have also done more research on my own spirituality than most christians. again your beliefs are you own but remember that understanding is a conscience effort.

As they say... Its always lonely at the top.

....Only when you call God, Jesus Christ and the Bible a myth will I get my hackles up. Say you don't believe it and that's ok......but it is not a myth imo

I don't think its quantity or the quality as stated. To me biblically it is a comparative and i think that is being over looked. I'm an x christian but have a good grasp on the book so to say. what is happening i believe is the coparison is being made leaving gods nature and attributes out. if we compare ourselves to one another then their for sure is lots of room for those comparisons, but if we compare ourselves to a perfect being that is without sin such as the biblical god claims, the the comparison falls short. If sin is falling short of perfection, then anything we do that is "less" than perfection, is in this beings eyes a - sin. sin meaning less than perfection, less than hitting the very dead center of the bullseye when shooting.
if that's understood, then it puts a different spin on those who think that little lies or actions are not bad as compared to murder. because we look at these with our own understanding an faulty comparitive, but if god truly cannot be connected in the least way with sin, [less than anything as perfect as himself,] then he cannot look at it our way, only from his point of view.

if we take a different perspective we could say that you or I are perfect but we cannot abide peanuts. big little or any type of peanut's, we cannot be connected to them in anyway, they to us are an abomination, no matter how much everyone else may love them or accept them or say to us they are not bad - will change or stand about them we have an incredible intolreance to them and even the sight of them makes us ill. we must stay disconnected from them at all cost - now i know it's not exactly the same but i'm trying to get across how gods nature is towards being connected with sin.{imperfectness}.

so what the book god/jesus is saying is you need some kind of way out of this dellema - jesus is supposedly perfect and died for peoples sins - therefore if you accept him your sins will be covered with his perfection and god will only see you as perfect because when he sees you he sees christ instead - that is what is meant by being in christ as part of HIS body you no longer are you but part of him and that's what god sees. so any sins you have[imperfections] are covered by his sacrifice and acceptance of his atonement, so if you sin afterwaords, and the accuser comes before god and says look at what so and so did, god looks and sees christ and turns back and says case dismissed.

now do i care whether you believe this or not - nope but it how it is seen by orthodox christians.

"A ceramics teacher announced on opening day that he was dividing the class into two groups. All those on the left side of the studio, he said, would be graded solely on the quantity of the work they produced. All those on the right would be graded solely on their works’ quality.

His procedure was simple: On the final day of class he would bring in his bathroom scales and weigh the work of the quantity group; 50 pound of pots rated an A, 40 pounds a B, and so on. Those being graded on quality, however, needed to produce only one pot — albeit a perfect one — to get an A.

At grading time, the works with the highest quality were all produced by the group being graded for quantity.

It seems that while the quantity group was busily churning out piles of work — and learning from their mistakes — the quality group had sat theorizing about perfection, and in the end had little more to show for their efforts than grandiose theories and a pile of clay."

Yes, you could call us pissed off atheists. Remember us? Your kind tried to kill us off years ago when our logic challenged the ground your "very" fairy tales where created upon. Don't mind us though, ignorance is bliss.

Well so NOW your personal view (I don't believe for one minute any of this is based on actual unadulterated research on your part) is that she wont go to heaven but she will simply linger in between in some respect.Basically you are only saying that now as an attempt to appease the argument that has been generated on this thread and the outpouring of anger against the idea that the murderer of the Muslim girl will be able to spend his eternity alongside god in heaven if he only chooses to "find jesus" while in prison. That leaves his victim, the Muslim woman, according to you lingering in between heaven and hell for all eternity unless she chooses to accept Jesus as her savior. Thats a load of crap and we are back to square one. What if you will now linger in nothingness for all eternity because you have chosen to play ball with Jesus and not become Muslim? The point is, you cant disregard one belief in an invisible man over a belief in another invisible man.

The same would apply to the rest of your "answer" except now its simply crumbling and falling apart. You are darn right the scripture is not based in any fact. It is a work written by men and has been utilized over the centuries to control people. You are clearly an example of this in my opinion. At least you admit it now. Its also been been reproduced several times The authorized King James Version is an English translation of the Christian Bible begun in 1604 and first published in 1611 by the Church of England.

No one has been Blasphemous in this scenario. The Muslim girl had been a practicing Muslim for her entire life up until the point of her murder. She was never blasphemous of anyone. You seem to be assuming she is blasphemous in some respect simply because she never chose to accept Jesus as her personal savior. If she were to do that, then she would be turning her back on her own faith. Maybe she felt there was no reason to do that. There is a distinct difference between being disrespectful of a premise and simply having your own which you choose to adhere to.

I gave you the definition of purgatory because you asked. I was kind of surprised honestly that you required that seeing as you have done such an "extended exegesis" of all of these concepts.Shouldn't you be more familiar with some of these terms as it relates to biblical reference? Cro-Mag was one thing as I know you are not strong in that area of science but "purgatory"? I have ALWAYS been straight forward with you eljay and will continue to be. Besides, purgatory would be just as likely to exist as your concept of hell.

Yes, you could call us pissed off atheists. Remember us? Your kind tried to kill us off years ago when our logic challenged the ground your "very" fairy tales where created upon. Don't mind us though, ignorance is bliss.

Eljay,

And before I answer your question, please let me make this clear, whatever you believe I respect and I have no desire to change anything you believe. It is your truth and it works for you. I only ask that you grant me the same respect.

Your question concerning do i believe in the God the bible describes or a different God...

For me, there is only ONE God. He/She may have many names and there may be many religious that call him/her by some other name then God. Still, for me, there is only ONE God, so your question is moot.

The God I believe in, is as the Bible says...God is LOVE. Again, I'll state, if I know LOVE then I know God and vice versa. The God I believe in knows each person's heart, I don't care what religion or non-religion they may follow. He/She loves them. God says he created us in his/her likeness, which TO ME...means I am capable of LOVE..on God's level, no, because it's also stated that we cannot look upon his face because we could not withstand the power of his LOVE. So if I am created in his/her image, I have the ability to love man/woman. I do not care what religion that man or woman is, I do not care what he/she calls her God for God is still LOVE. I can meet a muslim woman/man and I can love them because of who or what they are in their heart, I can love a agnostic because of who or what that person is, I can love an atheist because of what that person is, I can love a pagan because of what that person is...not because of their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

My PERSONAL belief is that all religions have some truth in them but no religion has all the truth..and I am talking about religion not GOD.

My God is more powerful then any MAN, or any EVIL that might persists in this world. My God is more powerful then me or anything I might think, do or say. I am here to simply LOVE another as God has and does LOVE ME. That is my reason for existance.

I will not argue your points or beliefs for they are yours and if you believe them they are YOUR truth and for YOU they are right. That does not mean they are right for all human kind any more then mine are. I will not argue the Bible for anyone can pick and choose passages to make their point and then another can find another passage to, in their mind, disprove. That is why my statement "Religion (not God) will always be debated because there is NO proof...tangible proof that one is truly right and the other is truly wrong. That is about religions.

Still, as far as I am concerned there is only ONE GOD, there are alot of religions. So, again, your question to me which God I believe in...is moot because there is only ONE and that God is LOVE!

The Bible has been translated many times. The Bible was written by men, even if it was thru God's divine intervention, anything that has the element of human in it, there will be an error, you can bet on it.

Alrighty then, let me paint you a more emotional picture...

Picture this: a courtroom with a judge and jury, and defendants like Dahmer and Gacy. After the trial is done and jury has found the defendants guilty and recommends the death penalty, the judge asks the murderers if they have anything to say in their defense. The fall on their faces and praise the judge laviously for his being powerful and wise enough to spare them, they appeal to his vanity in the most flattering ways possible, they rend their breasts before him. Then the judge passes sentence- he acknowledges a jury of their peers has found them guilty of the very laws the judge has on a plague behind him and sentences them to death.

But then commutes the sentence because he was moved by their appeal to his grandeur and majesty.

But it doesn't stop there. He turns to the jury and says "And ladies and gentleman of the jury, I find YOU guilty of murder in your hearts of one who would worship me. Bailiff, take them into custody immediately and execute them at dawn."

The foreman of the guilty stands up and says, "You may be able to do this and get away with it, but this day will live in infamy."

The next morning, the jury is lined up, ready to be shot, but is given one last chance to recant. They all say, "I would rather die than live in a land where such kangaroo courts can dispense such injustice with impunity."

Then, a la, 'V for Vendetta', the executioner says, "Now you are truly free, and can't be corrupted by fear, ready to seek Justice with a perspective unavailable to the vast majority of people. We'll escort you to a safe place. " The firing squad fires blanks into the air for the benefit of the throngs outside the walls.

There. Verily, and all that stuff jazz.


-Kerry O.

Oh Feral you are such a temptress. Of course it is a myth. It perfectly fits the description of a myth.

# a traditional story accepted as history; serves to explain the world view of a people


# Myth is derived from the Greek word mythos, which means "word of mouth."


A story of a great but unknown age which embodies a belief regarding some fact or phenomenon of experience, and in which often the forces of nature and of the soul are personified; an ancient story of a god, a hero, the origin of a race, etc. ...


# An improvable story, almost always including miraculous events, that has no specific reference point or time in history.


# an anonymous story designed to explain the mysteries of life, generally with larger than life awe-inspiring characters.


# A traditional story passed down through generations that explains why the world is the way it is. Myths are essentially religious, because they ...


# An anonymous tale emerging from the traditional beliefs of a culture or social unit. Myths use supernatural explanations for natural phenomena. They may also explain cosmic issues like creation and death. ...

So come now, lets see your hackles