That is exactly as it should be....do not hate those we love. No matter what. Being gay isn't a condition...it is who they are.

Di is not a mean person. She is only trying to get some people to understand that gay and lesbian people do not have the same human rights as many straights do. They do not. As those that just live together do not. In my state anyway. You can live together for 40 years (straight) and never get a thing that the two have bought and lived in together in or had. Same for the gay community. If these laws are changed...then this would be for the benefit of all. Not just gays.

A gay couple can not and will not be considered for the belongings of another in a partnership, whether they bought it together or not. It becomes the property of the families. Tuff luck. Not right.

To love a gay person is to know how to accept and change for the better. To leave them out of the rights of humanity is wrong in so many ways.

Kat

Hi Di



What difference does it make on a person's lifestyle choice when it comes to the law? Unless the actions of such are considered a danger to themselves or others? You don't seem willing to extend the rights that you seek to others who disagree with you.



I've had to deal with not being hired because of my religious beliefs - but I did not feel compeled to have to "hide" it to get the job in the first place. Any job that I would not be wanted in due to what I believe is not a job worth having. Period. In the circumstance of renting a place, and being evicted due to being gay... Why was this not brought up in the first place? If someone does not wish to rent to a G/L, or a couple not married, or a pedifile, or for any reason - that is their choice - their loss. Why would wnyone want to have a landlord with that kind of prejudice in the 1st place? The argument is moot as far as I'm concerned.



??? - denied access? Who has that power? And what law is going to facilitate that circumstance? It seems like a personal issue that the government should have no part of.



That is not an issue for this country to resolve.



What is keeping her from getting her social security check?



What is wrong with "you people"? Do you read your posts after you write them? Who's judging here? It is you who are passing judgement.

I don't want ANY special rights given to ANYBODY who feels as though they are entitled to them because they happen to find themselves in a minority. In addition to this - I do not want any rights taken away from ANYBODY because of what they believe, the color of their skin, their social status in life, or their particular life choices. Any law that separates that and singles out people - I want repealled. I truly believe we need less laws - not more.

Isaac I agree and because I agree I think the next time you make a post to reflect this thought you should include the texts that discuss, divorce, interacial marriage, prostitution, concubines and pre-marital sex, as well as any verse you THINK pertains to homosexuality.

From there it might be easier to determine why some sin is disregarded, forgivable, even acceptible, while another sin is detestable and those who commit it are not even worthy of the same freedom of life as others.

I already pointed this out eljay
The thing is to prepare for the possibility!

They should have the same rights and so should you.

1..no

2...no

Eljay, I’m sorry I might be tired, but I don’t understand what you are saying here?



Perhaps, Eljay, because there are plenty of jobs for you. You seem to think that because there are places that GLBT live and work that EVERY GLBT should pick up and go wherever those places are. Where are they Eljay? Where are all the jobs that don’t discriminate? Do you Know? And once there, can I be assured that I can rent an apartment without fear of being found out and being evicted? Try living in Kentucky or the heart of the Bible belt, where you must hide to find work. And hope you don’t come off too effeminate if you are male, because whether you are gay or not you open yourself up to all manner of abuse, and there are no laws to protect you, because no law recognizes civil abuse of person just because they’re gay. But there are a lot laws that protect you, that protect women, blacks and other ethnic groups, but no law against discriminating against a gay or lesbian.

Sometimes you scare me, and then I remember your Christian mentality. Eljay, Federal law prohibits discrimination of business to the public. Remember the Civil Rights Act of 1964? You know, when it became illegal to refuse service to blacks, or Irish, or not to rent to people of all ethnicity? You know that same law that makes it illegal to pass over someone for promotion just because they are black or Christian or Jewish. You can’t honestly be PROMOTING the freedom of everyone to be so discriminatory, can you? Or are you actually approving of that kind judgment?



You would think so, but you obviously don’t know the law and you obviously don’t care to know, because I have given you the link to these laws.

It is if you are an American and your partner, that you have legally married in another country, is not allowed entrance to the US because it does not recognize your right to fall in love with and declare a contractual partnership with someone of the same sex. You can say “sorry about your luck” but I will tell you that there are many people in service of this country whose long time family including children are disregarded, denied by this government, because the partner is same sex. Yet you would sit there and allow that person to die for your way of life and then say – sorry about you luck?

QUOTE:

Have you ever had to take care of your invalid partner for more than 10 years without benefit of her social security. Having to lie and say she is your sister just so the doctors will take of her?



It might be the family, who never approved of the relationship in the first place even though it survived 15 years before the illness. In another case it was the doctor, knowing that there was no family, ordered the case to court, where the state took custody and placed the partner into a wretched home , where access to the well partner was denied. How can anyone with half a hear look at that kind scenario and not feel pain for those people? I shed tears telling the stories, I know of these people, and I HATE that they were forced to go through this, because they are denied the benefit of laws they YOU TAKE FOR GRANTED.

QUOTE:

what is wrong with all you people - question yourself - why don't you know these things go on? Why can't you see beyond what you WANT to believe.

Are you all so afraid of having to give up your precious right to judge???????




Catch up Eljay, read a little. There have been several attempts to pass laws to make GLBT inclusive under federal law and the what blocks these laws EVERY TIME, is the Christian faction. THAT IS WHO IS JUDGING



Where do see that the GLBT are asking for SPECIAL priviledge? Where do you see that anyone would be harmed if GLBT were granted the same protection as Blacks, women, handicapped and head of household, or adoptive parent, of a person WILLING to take care of another in sickness or in health?

I have a question as where I worked this was a reality and i am sure this is true for many employers.

I worked for your local Power company as a substation Tech. In this line of business all job classifications would work together in many jobs. Lineman ect. Here I had a big problem with but we could do nothing about because of federal laws. Every year workers would get hurt from a slight sprain to death by electricution. Now when your working with your fellow workers and something happens your instinct is to help them. Many times this may be CPR. The laws state that a persons medical records are confidential. This left us helpless the way me and my coworkers seen this. If a fellow employee had aids or active HIV whatever you call it. We all know blood and body fluids can pass it to you. Now what the company did was give us training and we had a kit that we never did use that had a special applicator with a 1 way valve for cpr and gloves and rags for blood. I never saw anyone stop to run to the truck to get these so called safety devices when a worker had just been severely hurt. The company knew full well no one would either. When you see a ball of fire around someone your 1st reaction is to go help however you can.

Do you see a law that protects a worker who has a deadly disease that can kill his fellow workers fair to keep this a secret from workers?

Is the life of a mother ,father,son, daughter less important to inform them of this disease that this worker has who has done nothing wrong less important than his right to privacy?

Why should workers have to work under such conditions?

I feel for anyone who contracts these diseases but shouldn't he even be concerned for his fellow worker? Thanks...Miles

have you ever been wrongly accused of domestic violence and been narrowly murdered later by the wolf that cried sheep?

Have you raised a child alone from a toddler and been there for them to your own peril and detriment to your own career?

Hacve you ever been shunned from work or professional associations for your faith in Christianity?

Have you ever been shut out from familial support and governement assisitance after having contributed more/yr than most make?

Have you ever been sued for having assets and insurance that is expediently paid to malicious litigators irrespective of merit, only to fight them off and redeem your good name at your own cost and then be asked to signed an indemnification against malicious prosecution in exchange for the attempted fraud having been diffused?

Have you ever lost a spouse to your faith and apprehensions becoming real and no longer find yourself the naughty plaything of the desire of your heart, in finding that you were not loved as much as what you offered in worldly ease was?

Have you been threatened with a straight jacket and reprograMMING AND DEBRIEFING FOR HAVING ENTERED INTO SOBRIETY AND FAITH IN GOD?

Have yo ever lost access to higher education to the need for affirmative action goals and quotas?

Have you ever been looked upon condescendingly by the affluent Christian community for living in this world not as plundering it, but as acquiring to your person only that which is needful?

Have you ever been labeled as "one of those" Christians just by stating your faith in Christ?

Have you ever had an opportunity come to you and others ask it of you, and forego it that their weakness may be stemmed even though you have a great need too?

Have you ever faced off against those of your persuasion when they are wrong as a matter of conscience and bear the sorrow of experiencing the wrath of the disengenuous within your persuasion?


I'll bet you can add to this list many more injustices and examples of things that are not fair and just.

That is part of life.

It is not an excuse for special access or special rights or special accomodation from society.

It is what it is.

We all have these lists.

Every last one of us.

No one owes us anything.

We owe it to ourselves to be the best we can be and rise above the myriad challenges.

We owe it to ourselves to refrain from beating a dead horse because it won't pull the cart anymore.


We can divide ourselves til we are blue in the face, and none of it will stop happening as it happens upon all.

Some will cave in, some will capitulate, some will compromise themselves, some will give up, some will seek for a whipping boy, some will seek a license to continue in unprofitable endeavors.

And some won't.

We will never reach mutual respect and dignity for all by labeling and licensing special privileges for each and every demanding and importunistic group that seeks such. There is no end to that divsiveness. It will never bring us together; such will only succeed in driving us all further apart from one another.



Micro managing minutia is a waste of humanity.


Building a better tomorrow is better served in promoting personal responsibility and accountability and reflecting the value and integrity of showing favor to those deserving of such disciplined effort as such within themselves for the good of all within reach.

Building a personal hedge of protection around oneself with honorable and well defined kindreds makes for a more peaceful personal pursuit in life by building the community of friendships on a personal level that reaches and teaches each subsequent circle of influence surrounding that hedge built.

Relying on legislative consensus for that which we can do for ourselves, denies ourselves by so doing.

How can we be a nation of diverse peoples living in harmony one with another if everything endeavored is a legal machination of irresponsibility?

Representative governance is not about licensing every nuance, though it seems to be so in commerce and trade.

Representative governance reflects the wealth or bankruptcy of any nation.

What is relevant is : what is the capital?

What is the equity being sought protections for?






What seems most important in this vain is : Wh6y is this nation bankrupt and bereft of mutual respect and dignity without licensing it?

Can we legislate integrity and honesty?

Can we ever legislate truthfulness?


No people on this earth need a government to dictate personal truthfulness.

People just need the collective will to collectively respect all liberties while concurrently not infringing on the liberties of others. That starts with individual efforts not applauded with monetary renumeration.

1. yes.
2. no.

Eventually, laws allowing gay people having the same rights as heterosexual couples will pass because that is the tendency in a secular and godless world, so there is not much christians can do just state their positions and views towards this issue.
However, all the benefits and recognitions that laws can give to these so called "gay rights" are just a matter of paper. The eternal God will no recognized any law of this kind.
The only human laws which God recognizes are those that come from natural law (for instance murder is a crime under human law which comes straight from natural law.)
Now somebody may argue that respect to dignity of a person regardless his/her sexual tendency comes also from natural law. Indeed it comes from natural law. However, somethings are natural and other things are unnatural.
I love gay people for the human beings they are. They deserve my respect. I have even said that they may be better people than me. I just don't like their sexual praxis.

Yes
Yes

Answer: This is a tough one for me.....I am no ones judge and I do believe that all people have the right to have the basics, insurance, medical etc. Now all of my GLT friends know how I feel personally, and they also know that I feel they have certain rightd not based on sexual preference.

Now I do believe again redy that you are lumping once again all people who "believe" into what you think they are. This is about as fair as assuming that we all would vote no for you to have equal rights. I do happened to believe that all are entitled to equal pay, equal medical, equal insurance etc. I do not however believe that marriage should be legal for gays, lesbians, etc.

no Not Christian
yes for law

I believe the idea of choosing a life partner that must be the opposite sex ~~by the law of "God" ~~ is deeply rooted in the genetic experiment of Adam and Eve who I suspect were originally beings with both sexual organs and were transformed from being both male and female to being either a male or a female.

The genetic tampering caused them to have excess sexual desire for each other in order that they would mate more often and bare more children. Off spring was the primary goal.

Homosexuality and trans genders tend to defeat the original purpose which was the procreation of slaves, or workers or whatever they (the gods or the advanced race) wanted these humans for, and so it is declared a "sin" because it breaks the ancient law of an ancient "god" (alien) who's agenda was simply to get these people to procreate lots children.

Therefore any two people who want to be life partners, for any reason should have equal rights regardless of sexual preferences. Even two people of the same sex who are not gay should be able to form a contract or partnership that affords them the same rights as a married couple.

I think the marriage contract itself is obsolete anyway and should be abandoned. I think partnership contracts should be customized for each couple or even for group partnerships of more than two people who elect to live together. All contracts should be honored and respected by society. You might call them "family" partnerships.

As for the law, I would vote yes. Its a start. Its not what I would set up for society, but its a start.

JB

{{{<<< Glen >>>}}}


You are well loved & appreciated

{{{ <<< ElJay >>> }}}

Miles, you allow this government to bite your nose off, in spite of your face. You allow business to be discriminatry and you allow poeple to act like being gay is sick. You know what that does for you, It keeps you in the dark.

Instead of crying over possibilities you should be demanding PROPER education, and PROPER approved equipment. There is absolutely no guarantee that a straight person is goind to be AIDS free or HIV negative.

YOU and everyone else deserves to this education and proper equipment. But YOU and so many Christians WANT IT ALL KEPT IN THE CLOSET.

ABSTINANCE BEFORE MARRRIAGE - is funded with tax dollars but YOUR CHILDREN are not learning how to protect themselves because the parents don't want their kids to hear about homosexuality (COVER YOUR EARS, CLOSE EYES, RUN AND THROW UP)

Homosexuality exists and its not going anywhere and if homosexuals can not get married then me and 2 million other homosexuals in this country are paying taxes without representation.

So keep blind to it all, you are hurting yourself, your children and OUR FUTURE.

Wouldee tell me where you were not defended by the law? Show me where the law failed you?

I love to correct wrong in the law, let me fight for you, tell me where you were wronged, where the law failed you???


come on, show me!

Life isn't fair - how intellectual of you to figure that out. But why not allow every life to be give the SAME EQUAL opportunity.

So you are correct we can not control certain things that happen in our lives - but we can control the law that at least guarantees us all the same protection and benefits it declares.


How dare you think that just becasue life is not fair that people do not need to be considered equally in the eyes of the law.

Feral


I didn't ask for you to vote for marriage, I asked for you to vote for equality of all the laws.

So you have aptly given way to my next question.

HOW WOULD YOU IMAGINE THAT GLBT COULD SUDDENLY BE COVERED, BY ALL THE LAWS THAT ONLY MARRIAGE CURRENTLY PROVIDES FOR?

By the way Feral, congradulations for the Yes, Yes combination. Maybe you are seeing a bit of light from under that "closet" door you are in....

I believe totally in equal for every human being on this planet.....I think that the law that only gives the right to married couples should be changed. I do believe in being GLBT is a sin against God, I do however know that I am not their judge and this is something between Him (God) and them. Now as I said all my friends that are GLBT know my feelings on this. I hate the sin not the sinner.

And please redy don't be smug....it doesn't suit you.....Because honestly if you knew me at all...for you too say to me that I am seeing a bit of the light from under the closet door.....for shame......You really don't have the first clue who feral is.

This is what makes me most angry by you and others with your mentality of thinking you have a clue as to who I am. I have a lot more aspects to me then just being a Christian woman. I am proud of my beliefs and proud of my God....and still you all want to lump us together into this "Christian category" but God forbid if we have opinion on GLBT because then were just in the closet and know nothing. Well once again you are wrong redy, and once again you better be very very careful when you throw rocks at glass houses.....

1. No
2. Not sure. Honestly, the subject doesn't interest me much. There is too much rhetoric from the GLBT community. Their behavior is often blatantly offensive and disgusting, so that it takes all focus away from what they are trying to acheive. Example: Gay cross-dressers showing up to Catholic Mass dressed as nuns (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/10/17/MNS1SR1HF.DTL) I support equal rights for all, but the rights of the minority do NOT outweight the rights of the majority. No church should ever be forced for marry a gay couple against their beliefs. No church should be found guilty for refusing to accept a gay marriage.