and your point is

i never said it was right

i said to do as you request every govt in the world would be accountable

show me one that would not be (there is none)

most of the issues that are on most peoples minds if handled in
the judicail sytem as example you use those that may have commited said crime are dead or statute of limitaion would be expired (except for murders)but those that commited them are dead anyway

and besides what of those that where there b4 say the myans and aztecs along with native hawains with their human sacrifices

maybe them losing their land is their punishment from their gods for such cruelty

and who is to say those b4 anyone anywhere did not use force to take it in the first place

it is people that keep bringing up atrocities of the dead that cause most of the turmoil in the world

it is like the kindergartener joe beat up jim so dave has to beat up joe and then elliot ahs to beat up joe now ethan needs to beat elliot but now it is 100 years later

sams hiers want restitution from joe sorry it is not gonna happen

I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about this topic, but like all good Americans, I'll put in my two cents even though I know nothing!! :D

Look, it's quite simple. Whether legal or illegal, the citizens of the Hawaiian Islands pledged to aid and support the laws and lands of the United States when it joined the Union. It has been already declared unconstitutional to leave the Union, and amendmets were added after the civil war to make sure that no state seceded again.

The United States is not "one nation under God" as the Christian Right wing would like you to believe. It is a Republic of 50 nations that have given away some of their inherent soveriegn rights in order to serve the common good of the society as a whole. The only problem the United States has is that it has forgotten it can still let more people join. Get over it Hawaii, you got hoodwinked and can't get out of it. It's like a bad travel service.

If the nation the size of the U.S. cannot stand alone in our falling economy, how the hell is one island going to do it. What if we raise tariffs and you have to pay like $50 to get a can of SPAM? (its common knowledge of the spam loving hawaiians)

The true problem with our nation is that our congress is dealing with stupid problems like this. Too many small intrest groups have to whine about the downtrodden. Grow up people, this is real life and guess what? Things don't always go your way. Some guy is going to have a cigar while you eat your meal. Tough. Some woman is going to snag that parking spot. Too bad. You might get heart disease. Sorry. Bad things happen to good people, get over it.

Hey, I want to secede too. Have Hymieland out here in Kansas. We'd have legal prostitution, drugs, gambling, and no income tax. The roads would be sh*t and there would be no education system, but from reading on this site, I'd say that was a waste of tax dollars anyway.

Nice theory, but wrong in many ways. Just as if you were alive when Hilter ruled Germany and you lived in Germany, you basically had no choice..well you did, but meant something like DEATH!

Not many people in the world will stand up to such threatening force.

As to it being "unconstitutional" for any state to leave the union...you better go check with Texas on that one..it still has that option built in.

The actual "Constitution of the United States of America" says NOTHING about such things. and any "amendment" would be added later would be "unconstitutional" in itself since it is NOT in the ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION.

And no, not all the people of the Hawaiian islands took or made a pledge to the United States. Therefore to assume that is simply wrong in fact or in theory.

Any type of "pleadge" or "oath" made under threat and or involentary persuation is never binding.

Just two more cents for free.

Actually the Amemdmets to the constitution are part of it, same as any of the articles. And the laws govering secession were put in after Texas had written it's constitution, therefore voiding the clause. Texas can still break into five independant states, but not seceed. Also Texas was an independant nation recognized by more than five entities through written treaties. Vermont was also an independant nation at one time as well as California, just to catch you up on your history. Maybe for those who's laws were written in sand don't understand how paper laws, can be changed.

Land can pledge nothing, no Island can grant anything but sand. No one can truly govern another. The real truth of the matter for our underinformed friends is that all law, no matter who wrote it, only exists in so far as I choose to recognize it. No public official can enforce a law I choose not to obey. Oh they can throw me in jail, take away my freedom, but I do not have to agree to any law. And if you don't think I'm willing to give my life for something I believe in, try to pull some eminant domain stuff on me. We'll see how far I'm willing to go.

And if you want to compare me to a Nazi again, I dare you to grow a pair of balls large enough to do that to my face. I'll send the address if you want.

Hawaii gets a lot of financial support from the mainland. They would suffer greatly if this idiotic plan succeeds. Thankfully, it will not.

well show me any country anywhere that was not taken be force at one time or another

like i said if the united states wa so imperialist

japan and half of europe along with all of cuba would be part of the united states and a lot of mexico as well the united states was all the way to mexico city in the mexican american war

to do as you are saying all govt would need to be abolished

be well

Imperialism is not just possessing land illegally taken, but as well unfair foreing and trade policies which keep the smaller countries as servants.
Imperialism can be achieved as well in a very passive manner.

And don't forget the "brainwashing" teqniques used in generations. It's not like this just popped up overnight. it has taken decades.

LOL..well was a decent post until the "growing balls" part. Just amazing how you will talk the big talk here while your country falls into ruin. Guess you must not be that big of a person, considering you won't stand up for your own country. this is obvious and evident by the shape it is in.

But we still give you a nice Hawaiian name...will mean "big cahonnies with little results"

SO let me get this straight. You say I would have been a weak willed Nazi, but that's not degrading a post. But I stand up for myself against an obviously more clever opponent, and I am letting my country fall in ruins.

Let's see. In the last year I've started two new business, while keeping a third operational. Hmm. You must be right, I'm sitting on my hands while my economy is going to ruins. Mabye I should shove a matress full of Euros and hide it in "free Hawaii." Will that help the world economy?

With due fairness, when the US went in to Hawaii their debt was out of control and they were in the midst of a civil uprising. The Marines and Navy went ashore with 3 Companies, one Marine and 2 Navy, with almost no resistance and did so to protect American Lives and interests! We had an Ambassador there, and a lot of sugar plantations at the time.

If we hadn't done it then, we no doubt would have been forced to during WWII with a lot more loss of life!

If I'm correct, they are doing very well now!

Hmmmm. please define "doing very well" Fanta. the native Hawaiians are treated basically like the "native Americans" (Indians to some). They are herded into small portions of land, and basically left to rot.

They have an enormous drug problem now, just as the natives in the mainland.

The Americans have exploited every facet of the islands. they generate HUGE tax revenues, especially on the property, where the "land imporvements" (house) may be worth only $49,000. But they tax the property at 3.9 MILLION!!! And thats not even a big peice of property! Thats an average house lot on the mainland.

So please...define "doing well"??

Hawaiians are Americans.
They have a huge drug problem! All of America has a huge drug problem.
When I was in the Military. The Hawaiians I met were very patriotic and very American.
I dont even understand where this thread came from, but I'll guarantee you that Hawaii will not secede from the Union!

I bet if it was put to a vote the majority of Hawaiians would reject the idea.