Continue what? Living?

No. You don't ever have to be grateful for a dam thing if you don't want to.

And you obviously don't know wtf I am talking about in this thread so I am not going to repeat myself.



You make no sense. Your statements are incomplete and irrelevant. Gratitude means nothing without judgment?

What are you smoking?

JB

JB, lets not make it a war...

Ah, the reflections of one when they are confronted...

I am not making war. I am serious. You are not making any sense with your statements. They don't relate. They don't compute.

You will have to be a little more specific. I don't like guessing games.

JB

One must open their eyes in order to see.

Zat clear enough?

Irrelevant and ambiguous.

The queen of ambiguity speaks...

I am seldom ambiguous unless I am writing pros or poetry.

I take care in being as clear and as literal as I can in my writing. If you can find any of my statements that you think are ambiguous that you were unclear about, please point them out to me and I will look them over and see if I can clear them up.

JB

JB:

I just try to help people to consider another perspective...

I do not think you realize what you are asking of me.

Overlooking things that do not fit from my vantage point is a part of respecting anothers right to have their own belief...

If one comes to terms by themself, as a result of another's input or if I can help ya to think things through a little more, then I have done you a favor... and you.... I.

I like the positive aspects in what you express...

The logic fails miserably.

I have to be able to understand what your other perspective is before I can consider it.

All you do is state your opinion or apposing belief (or lack thereof.)

You do not illustrate a different perspective that relates to the subject at hand.

You certainly have the right to think what you want but I have no clue as to how you arrived at your conclusions, therefore I see no other perspective to consider.

JB

Logic is a strange and flexible thing. Have you ever had a totally ridiculous dream that while in the dream it seemed perfectly logical at the time, but then you wake up and laugh your head off at how illogical and ridiculous it was?

Yes, I worry about this thing we call logic. The mind works in strange ways to fill in the gaps of the things we don't see.

JB

In your beliefs... there are no accidents.

Need I say more?

wow

Bingo!

Say no more, I get it.

You don't believe it.
I suspect there are no accidents. But...

I guess it could depend on how one defines "accident."

And there could be variables that we don't know about.


I wish you would have just said that directly.

Getting a strait answer from you is once again like pulling teeth. Its a strain on my brain.

You have relieved my pain. Thanks.

If you can walk away more justified within your assertations, then the cloud is just darker...



Tell that to a victim!

I am simply relieved to walk away finally understanding what you are talking about.

Whether I believe in victims or accidents is irrelevant.

WHAT I believe is irrelevant.

It is either so or is it not so.

My belief or "assertion" is irrelevant.

After all I could be wrong.

But right now, I don't think so.

But what I think IS IRRELEVANT.

Understand?

I hope so.

JB and Creative ...

It seems to me you both speak of the same thing from different planes of perspective...both are correct depending upon your point of view ... but they will not cross in the same conversation...

I know where you are coming from JB

Creative ... way too earthbound for this conversation ...

I’m not sure how important logic is when discussing the true nature of the universe. We already know that the science of physics is currently stalled in quantum mechanics at what appears to be a totally illogical situation. That may eventually be resolved logically or it may not. There have been proofs already given that any logical solution cannot be had. At least not based on what we currently think of as logic.

Take Einstein’s Relativity for example. It was impossible to resolve the problem using logic and the classically Newtonian that space and time are absolutes.

Something had to give. What gave was the premise that time and space are absolutes. Once that premise was forfeited, then the situation could be explained logically again.

But what does this say about logic?

Well, it says something that most philosophers don’t want to hear (are you listening Michael? )

There is no such thing as absolute logic. Logic isn’t carved in stone. Logic is malleable, and strongly dependent on what we are willing to accept as premises. All logic must begin with a premise. In fact, to go beyond that premise, it usually needs at least two premises to rub against each other. Only then can a third premise be arrived at, which is really the conclusion of the logic applied to the first two premises, and so on.

Change the premises and a whole logical system can be changed. What we previously though was logical no longer holds true (just like with Newtonian physics). Newtonian physics might still work as a good approximation in certain situations, but ultimate it doesn’t hold true as an absolute logical system. It’s based on the false premises that time and space are separate and absolute. We now know that to explain the universe on a larger scope we must recognize that time and space are one and the same thing, they are malleable. One can be transformed into the other and vice versa. They are like a single sheet of rubber stuff.

So when you say that Jeanniebean’s ideas fail miserable at logic, could it be that you’re just not accepting all of her premises???



Why would that be illogical? That’s precisely what everyone believed to be the case back when Newtonian physics was in its heyday. They believed that the entire universe runs like a giant clockworks and everything has been predetermined. Therefore even what appear to be accidence must have been predetermined and therefore not accidents at all.

I have a hard time believing in accidents even today. But quantum randomness certainly allows for them. Almost everything in my life that I would refer to as an accident most likely had a cause, and therefore wasn’t an accident at all.

Just as a side note too,….

I haven’t been following your discussions. I know CS and JB ramble on and on a lot together.

But from my perspective I think CS takes JB’s view a little too much like solipsism. But then again, I know that JB does quite often appear to be speaking like as if she’s talking about solipsism (or at least like as if she can manifest anything with complete disregard to what else might be going on in the world).

If I’m going to believe in the “Law of Attraction” (which I don’t know if I do entirely), I’m at least going to have to believe in it similar to gravity. In other words, if the “Law of Attraction” is at work in this universe then it must be affected by everyone in it. Therefore things could be made to happen to you that you didn’t not intent to manifest yourself.

In other words, for me the “Law of Attraction” would not equate to solipsism where I could just manifest anything I want without every being affected by the manifestations of others. I think there needs to be some recognition that I alone do not control the entire universe. (i.e. we’re not talking about solipsism)

I must concur with Michael that Jeanniebean often does make it sound like she believes that she can have absolute total control over her universe. But it seems to me, unless she is embracing solipsism, she would need to also take into account that she’s not the only one manifesting things, and therefore she can’t have completely and total control.

Whew!!! That rambled further than I expected.

I think they're both radical fantical absolutists.

((( Sherrie ))))



Oops!

Micheal didn't see that did he?

Hiya James

...are you macking on his gurl?

Jees... you people are killing me...

I know that there are accidents... people slip off of boats every day and drown... you know... to death!

Does that mean that they gave that thought more attention?

Gimme a break.

One does not manifest everything in their life...