Yes we do ramble on at times.

Thanks for your input. I liked what you had to say about logic. I don't know why I have had my doubt about logic as it seems to me that there are different types or levels of logic. As you say, different premises. That makes sense.

I do take into account that there are other manifestations in my universe. (get that... MY universe.)

I do take into account that we share a universe and we acknowledge each other's manifestations and we use each other's creations and each other to manifest our personal realities.

We as a whole agree to share this universe that we all take part in creating.

I begin to have more control over my own personal reality when I accept full responsibility for it. That is why no accidents happen to me. I will take the responsibility. If it looks like an accident, I will still take responsibility and move on. If I live through it. Hopefully I will learn from it.

JB

Compete control? I'm still working on that.

Yes it probably does.

Then there is always the idea that they agreed to live and die when they decided to incarnate here, and they chose the exact manner of their death. But that's for the reincarnation thread..

Good night JB:

No hard feeling here... in case you wonder...

It's been quite fun. Night!

I think you're looking at it wrong Michael,

Not that I’m necessarily supporting it (especially with the intensity that JB gives to it).

But think of it this way,….

When someone slips and fall off a boat and drowns, it’s not that they necessarily made that happen.

It’s that they didn’t bother to try to manifest its prevention. Or they didn’t know how to manifest its prevention.

As JB often states, you have to learn how to use the law of attraction, otherwise you’re just dust in the wind. You’re not necessarily manifesting anything, you’re just on auto-pilot allowing anything to be manifest in your life.

However, even after having said all of that, I imagine that some people who are expert at using the ‘law of attraction’ still encounter ‘accidents’. This doesn’t negate the idea for me because even though I feel there may be some truth to the power of the law of attraction I’m willing to allow that it can’t be fully controlled.

I view it more like a mountain climber. A mountain climber knows all about gravity. And he or she knows how to use their mountain climbing gear too. Even so, some really professional experienced mountain climbers have fallen to their deaths. Does that negate mountain climbing altogether?

JB’s just a very confident mountain climber. She’s just saying, don’t worry Michael, I’m not going to fall because I’m not going to make a mistake!

She has compete faith in her rock climbing gear. And she has complete faith in the rock. That it won’t accidentally crumble and let her fall. Her faith is complete. Just like those religious freaks.

But who can knock it? Let her climb her mountain.

If you want to go fall off a boat that’s your logical decision.

Jeannie....Point I was trying to make earlier ,is....everything you are talking about, along with everything else discussed earlier ....can already be found in the Word of God.

For instance, the word says,

"If you should say unto that mountain, be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea, and shall not doubt in your hert, but believe those things that you say shall come to pass, you shall have what you say ."

Here's something else.....

"As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he."

Or this....
"Life and death are in the power of the tongue."

Jeannie.... it's all there in the Word of God......
one only has to plug into , and study the word of God, in order to fully grasp the deeper truth and meaning of God's word.
But of course one has to be born again first, in order to have one's spiritual eyes opened to God's truth.


Also Jeannie....
you stated earlier, that you need to make logical sense of God's Word first, in order to believe.

Jeannie.... one will never make sense of God's word, using logic.

Jeannie....The Word of God defies logic.
It goes past logic.

Example....

"Jesus walked thru walls after he arose from the dead."

Just that example alone
defies logic .

Here is another example...

"Ask Jesus into your heart, and you shall be born again."

Sound logical?

Of course not...
Using Logic won't make sense.

And speaking of logic....
according to what Abra just shared above , scientists are being stummped today, cause they are realizing some things can't be logically explained away any more.

Here's something else .......

"The Word of God is powerful and sharper than any 2 edged sword...."

Sound logical?
No.....


And this one again...

" Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Again....makes no logical sense.

Point is, there is something that is needed, that goes BEYOND logic , in
order for God's Word to be explained and understood.

And that is what science is starting to realize..... and some scientists are even starting to agree with bible ...cause logic isn't cutting it anymore...and scientists are now starting to realize, that the answers that they are seeking, can be found in the Bible, afterall.

JFK manifested his own assassination by attracting it?

Martin Luther King Jr... the same?

Every little girl who is incestually raped... them too?

What of the space shuttle astronauts... they should have thought differently?

What about the victims of V.T. and Columbine??? I suppose they, too, were responsible for their own being murdered at random?

I guess those people who died in the tsunamis a few years back... they thought that into existance also?

It is absurdly dangerous thought...

Sickening really... disturbed... in my opinion...



EDIT:

OH yeah!! Goodmorning.... or afternoon...

I think when using gravity as an example here it would be better to say that the law of attraction is like someone that wants to float up in the air. We say no you cannot float in the air. The person jumps in the air a few times and says see I was floating. We would say in return you can really stay in the air if you want just get in an airplane. It uses all the known laws of science to keep you air born.

I think this is closer to what we are dealing with.

How are ya rabbit?

It just does not make sense in real life every day happenstances...

It is a nice thought, if used for the betterment of all, but in reality... nothing more than misplaced diagnosis...

Creative:

Death always happens.

In my model of reality, a soul knows this before they are incarnated into this Life & Death World.

This is only my belief. You can call it my religion if you want. But I feel that the time and manner of your death has already been decided..chosen by you.. in the form of your higher self even before you are born.

In order for an 'accident' to occur, certain things must be in place, certain people must converge, certain energies must be present, timing must be exact.

Maybe things don't always go as planned. Perhaps there are an infinite number of variations since there are so many thinking centers living in this constructed holographic matrix.

Perhaps, like these new DVD movies, there are even several different outcomes to the earth game/story. Maybe there are an infinite number of paths and probabilities you can walk down. Perhaps there are parallel universes.

I don't know these things. I have only discovered the Law of Attraction and I am playing around with it. I am not trying to start a religion. I am just experimenting.

No one knows the scope of the patter that is drawn.

Yes for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction down to the quantum level which is unseen.

You can call an incident an accident if you want, but even investigators look for cause. They always look for cause because there is ALWAYS cause.

When they can't find cause, they call it a freak accident. Even when they do find the cause they call it an accident.

A thing is labeled an accident when it happens without conscious consent. But all accidents have unconscious cause.

JB

If you’re referring to the Bible, most of the things concerning wisdom and moral values can already be found in other sources that predate biblical writings as well. So I’m not sure what you mean when you say they can already be found in the ‘Word of God’. They can already be found in a lot of places.

There are a lot of ancient writings, both religious and philosophical that suggest that we may be creating our experiences and physical reality via our own thoughts.

People often try to pass the Bible off as containing unique wisdom or being the forerunner in providing these ideas, but there is no wisdom in the Bible that is unique to the Bible. That’s a fallacy that many people are led to believe that simply isn’t true.

In fact the Bible can’t even lay claim to being unique in its religious claims of divinity and divine intervention. Almost everything the Bible claims in regard to divinity had already been claimed by other mythologies and religions previously. The Bible has nothing unique to offer in wisdom or divinity that hasn’t already been offered by other folklore or myths previously,…

http://www.pocm.info/index.html

So I don’t understand why you say that the ‘word of God’ already supports what Jeanniebean is saying. So do a lot of other ancient belief systems and philosophies.

Everything points to Jeanniebean! She must be right!

MorningSong,

I am aware of what the Bible says about the Law of Attraction and the power of belief, prayer etc. As far as I know, it is probably the oldest known written account of it, but Law has always been the law.

"The Secret" has been here all along. It has never been hidden, just not always seen.

I do not reject the information set forth in the Bible. All information has value. I consider all information.

If the Bible is "God's word" because it was inspired by "God" then there are many other books that could be called "God's word" also because God continues to inspire men from within and people continue to write books. It's called inspiration and creativity.

My feelings about logic have been stated. I don't think all logic is the same. Some of the things I have stated are logical to me, and illogical to others I am sure.

I do not see the New Testament in the same light as the old testament. They do not blend well for some reason.

While I understand some things in the Bible, the story of Jesus and the crucified savior stands apart from the rest as it is so similar to 17 other myths of crucified saviors that went before it.

Therefore I find the story suspect, and I do not consider it to be a true story.

JB

JB:

There is cause for all things. I completely agree with that notion. Something causes things to happen.

In the brief examples I spoke of...

I do not believe that it has anything to do with unconscious thought patterns, could not in some of those actual happenstances...

Positive-minded people die accidentally every day. This must be considered and effectively factored into the formula.

By accidental, I mean not having any possibility of being from their own thought processes, such as natural disaster victims, random shooting victims, and the like.

If there are no exceptions, then there are no exceptions. We are not necessarily the cause of things which happen to us. We are all subject to things beyond our control, beyond our scope of thought. That is undeniable.


In case you can't tell, my love believes much the same as you, so I am not intending on demeaning anything about your thoughts. I think that positive mentality is an excellent and irreplacable quality to have.

If one justifies their beliefs with empirical evidence, after the fact, it can always be shaped accordingly.

Truly, I do not see much differenece between these expressions and a believers other than the placement of credit.

Keep on improving your existence, it is a beautiful thing.

Abra,

My confidence lies more in the Law of Attraction than in my ability to use it in my life. That part is trial and error.

I do make mistakes, I just don't call them 'accidents.'

I look for cause and start over. I ask myself, what did I do or think or (not do or think) to cause this to come into my life?

When you are not manifesting and attracting consciously you are manifesting and attracting unconsciously.

Conscious creation is called "Living deliberately"

Other people call it "The power of Intention."

Other people call it "Lucid Living."

It is all about becoming more aware of what you are attracting and learning to attract what you want instead of being the effect of everyone else's creations.

JB

Spoken like a true skeptic.

How are you doing Reverend? Well, I hope.

I don’t necessarily believe in the “Law of Attraction”. However, if it works via belief then it may not work for me because I have difficulty believing anything without a good solid reason. The hazards of having spend my life with a scientific mindset. Although, I must also point out that the scientific mindset has been very productive and has produced many results that would indeed require a miracle to produce if it wasn’t for modern technology. This very post is a great example. How could I transmit my thoughts to so many people all over the world without technology? I couldn’t, unless I used some kind of ‘magic’ like maybe ESP or mental telepathy.

Anyway, I can’t see Michael’s claim that JB’s scenario is illogical simply because accidents occur.

It seems to me that JB is saying, in effect, that life is like a video game. We are placed into the came with a game controller (our mind). We can use it to play the game and control everything that happens.

So CS is saying, “It can’t be that way, because I people keep crashing into the walls”.

JB says, “Well they don’t know how to play the game very well then”

To me it would basically be like this,…

CS sits down a computer game with a game controller to drive a race car say. He gets the thing going and he’s driving it though the race course, and it comes to a wicked “S-curve” and he crashes into the wall. Then he stands up and say, “This controller’s defective!”

JB says, “No it’s not! Gimmie!”. Then she sits down and runs the race, when she comes to the “S-curve” she slows down and negotiates the curve perfectly and then continues on to win the race.

CS says, “Oh! But you cheated and slowed down for that S-curve!”

JB says, “No, I didn’t cheat! If you want to negotiate an S-curve you HAVE to slow down!”

CS say, “Well, that’s not right! If I have this game controller here I should be able to do ANYTHING! I still say the game controller is defective! It's an illogical game controller!”

JB says, “No honey. There’s nothing wrong with the game controller, you just don’t know how to use it. That’s all”

Abra, you usually make good points... but not this time!

Since this is what you believe your premise for this logic is obviously different from mine.

From my premise, if this were true, then the law of Attraction is flawed or non-existent, and if that were true then my entire model of reality falls apart.

I have too much evidence that supports my model of reality and all you have to offer is your belief in the statement above and a few examples of incidents that don't make sense to you and that you do not understand the cause for.

We can't understand the cause for these things because they are unseen. You cannot see the entire workings of the universal law.

Therefore I must stick to my model because is holds together very well in the big picture.

JB

I’m actually in total agreement with you here, and fully understand what you are saying. In fact his is precisely the 8-fold way of Buddhism,…

1. Right View-Mental ability to see things for what they are with clear consciousness

2. Right Intention- committment to improve

3. Right Speech—One speaks in a non hurtful, not exaggerated, truthful way

4. Actions—Wholesome action, avoiding action that would do harm

5. Right Livelihood—One's way of livelihood does not harm in any way oneself or others; directly or indirectly

6. Right Effort/Exercise—One makes an effort to improve

7. Right Mindfulness/Awareness- contemplation

8. Right Concentration/Meditation—Being aware of the present reality within oneself, without any craving or aversion.

It’s all about “Living Deliberately focused on Intent”

I’m failing miserable at #6 and that’s paramount.

You didn't like that one huh?

This is the perception at my end. That's all I can.

One thing I did like in there and I have been thinking about are things like the internet. If we had kept going in with things that people felt was real, like the idea of "aether" all around us. We would have never made any advances. The scientific method strictly followed has allowed us to have real miracles like, air planes, the internet, standing on the moon, and so on.
Only things that can really be measured by science brought you these miracles. I would say they are the only miracles the earth has ever seen.

Peace in truth.