You really haven't explained anything. If he is the loving god that we are lead to believe he is, why allow war to continue, why allow the genocides throughout history, why allow people to starve to death? Either he can stop all of this, or he can't. If he can, why doesn't he? If he can't he isn't all powerful, if he isn't all powerful, why call him god?
More importantly, if he is the loving god that we are lead to believe, why should it matter how we belief? I can remember the talks my parents gave me about not being allowed in the house again, if I ever got a tattoo. I now have 10, and more in the works, my parents still love me, just as much as before my tattoos, and I am still allowed in their house. So, all I really see here, is if we need to belief like "person X" to be "saved", then it's just another shining example of how we are better than god. And I see no reason to worship something that I'm better than.

I just wanted to add to this part of what was said here..

We can all agree (no matter what faith, or lack of faith we are) that there is a big difference between someone that is trying to silence those who don't believe as they do, someone who chooses to be dishonest/unintelligent, and those here who can hold a intelligent debate.

There are a number of people on here, who are believers(some in the mainstream religions, some not) that I do enjoy debating with, and I can, at least, understand the reasons they choose to have faith.

There are also some people on here, who, I feel, intentionally mislead others with their posts. This is something that I will fight against, because I really don't care what the subject is, be it religion, politics, history,etc. If you are intentionally misleading, you are wrong.

There are also some people, who I really question why they come into this section, and post(we do have some examples in this thread). The main reason why I question it is because there have been honest questions, that myself, and others have asked, that have been in no way questioning any belief or faith, and we either get told we are bashing the persons beliefs, or answers like "I would take the time to explain, but you wouldn't understand"

I'm sure I have been in arguments that have gone too far in here, for some reason, the Irishman in me comes out really well in verbal conflict. And, I will continue to question everything, because that is the only way we will truly learn.

Want to try that comment again?

http://mingle2.com/topic/show/213803

I think the problem you tend to run into on here is that you have people who will post in here, saying that their beliefs are the true beliefs, and then when other point out something as simple as an opposing view, an argument starts.

Heck, I've gotten into arguments with people (online in general) simply by asking for the proof that they claim they have...

I must say that I find it funny, that one will claim the magical man in the sky exists, but then say it's Obvious that Satan, with horns and pitchfork doesn't.

You are talking about a religion, that's main symbol is a guy nailed to a cross. Seems pretty torturous to me.

Waiting for Formula 1 Qualifying to begin!

Of course, the truly ironic thing is the one(s) that tend to demand I show prove of something in the bible is/are the one(s) that claim that because of my beliefs(well, lack of them) that I can't possibly understand the bible..

Why is it, that with the Anonymous groups, the first thing you do is state your name?

Not to mention that religion(even Christianity) played a key role in many of the examples given earlier...

This is something that has been bugging me for a while now. Why is it, that anything we say in the General Religion, we are the ones that are required to show the proof. I'm not talking about the scientific things that we post. But why is it up to me, an Atheist, to prove that certain sections of the bible are truly there. (Like, for example, the numerous passages on stoning that I had to prove to a christian today were there)

well, one of the many...

If you aren't willing to accept opposing views, you should not have posted in the General Religion forum.

That being said, Epicurus sums it up pretty well:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
-Epicurus

From what I've read, from un-biased sites, Religion did play a role in this, and it wasn't "lack of". Since the Serbs(Orthodox Christians) were killing Muslims...



Simple research shows this was politically charged, and had little to do with religion, including "lack of"



These two guys are grouped together, because ideologically, they are the same. Pol Pot made references to heaven/destiny wanting him to lead Cambodia, and Hitler has made a number of quotes, including :" I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."
But, either way, both these (even while Hitler's was motivated by a hatred of Jews.) were attempts at building a perfect utopia.


The main religious beliefs of Japan are Shinto and Buddhism, and a mix of the two. So, again, not quite the Atheists your trying to claim they were.


The reasons behind this were purely political. The Ukraine wanted Independence, Stalin didn't want to grant it to them.


This is just another example of Muslims ridding the world of "infidels"...

Actually, we don't. There are Christians out there murdering doctors who perform abortions. But each time we bring those instances up, we get told that those people "aren't real christians."
And, whether you like it or not, the blood of those cases brought up, from hundreds of years ago, is still on your hands.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.



Exodus 19:13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.
Deuteronomy 13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deuteronomy 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Deuteronomy 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
Hebrews 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

Numbers 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Joshua 7:25 And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.

1 Kings 21:13 And there came in two men, children of Belial, and sat before him: and the men of Belial witnessed against him, even against Naboth, in the presence of the people, saying, Naboth did blaspheme God and the king. Then they carried him forth out of the city, and stoned him with stones, that he died.

need any more?

Then in that case, God is not the loving god that Christians make him out to be, Since he spent the OT killing people.
Also, if his word remains the same too, then all those parts of the bible that talk about stoning people to death, for various reasons, aren't just stories, they are what you are supposed to do.

That is a pretty funny statement for someone who continually states that "you can't blame the religion for the actions of those who abuse it"

Isn't that exactly what you are doing there?

Now let's take a "walk" through History.
The Crusades- Wars fought, by order of the Pope, to get the Holy Land back under Christian rule. Purely, a religious fight, and deaths in the name of "my god".

The Spanish Inquisition- People punished by others taking a literal translation to the bible.

The Witch Trails- Again, People punished by others taking a literal translation to the bible.

So that you don't complain about only Christianity being picked on:
Today's modern Jihad against all non-Muslims: Pretty simple, if you aren't one of them, they want you dead.

Hell, just look in that "good book" of yours. God kills many more than Satan does...

Well, they already play at least 20 games a year.(4 preseason+16 Regular season)
So the only real way I see this working, IF it happens, is that the Preseason goes down to 2 games, and the other 2 just get added on to the regular season.

The original football, better known in the America's as soccer.