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God has to be an extremely complex thing, (to use Dawkins' words) a god would be the ultimate 747. Science has done a nice job of showing that simplicity gives raise to complexity. (Through evolution). By using the logic we get from Science (or just re-working the creationist argument) For God to be as complex as he is, there HAD to be something before god. Either for him to evolve from, or for him to be created from. Personally, we have natural explanations for everything we understand, I don't see a need to invoke the supernatural for things we don't fully understand yet. God didn't have to go through evolution and all that, none of the natural laws we have on earth apply to God, for God created those laws. If God wishes for it to be, it is. So that is kinda irrelevant about evolution. IF god does anything in the natural world, then the natural laws apply to him too. |
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God wasn't created, God has always been and will always be. a pretty catchy phrase but it doesn't mean that God wasn't created can anyone that believe in God deny that God had a first thought? .....that first thought was formed from that which existed before God existence ... There was no before God's existance. God is the alpha and omega, the begining and the end. Tell yourself that all you want, it still fails the logic test. How does it fail a logic test? and what logic test? And who's logic? God has to be an extremely complex thing, (to use Dawkins' words) a god would be the ultimate 747. Science has done a nice job of showing that simplicity gives raise to complexity. (Through evolution). By using the logic we get from Science (or just re-working the creationist argument) For God to be as complex as he is, there HAD to be something before god. Either for him to evolve from, or for him to be created from. Personally, we have natural explanations for everything we understand, I don't see a need to invoke the supernatural for things we don't fully understand yet. |
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God wasn't created, God has always been and will always be. a pretty catchy phrase but it doesn't mean that God wasn't created can anyone that believe in God deny that God had a first thought? .....that first thought was formed from that which existed before God existence ... There was no before God's existance. God is the alpha and omega, the begining and the end. Tell yourself that all you want, it still fails the logic test. |
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ridiculous. everything contains nothing trivially. god is, was and always will be. eternal. so the question of whether god created god is meaningless. but if you want to think of it that way then i suppose that is ok too. 
you said that God is the creator of everything ....if God didn't create himself then God is clearly not the creator of everything ...simple logic according to religious logic everything must have a creator and couldn't have just pop out of nothingness....that also applies to God ... since God didn't create himself then something else had to create him.... God may be "always was"....but he was created by something that "always been" God wasn't created, God has always been and will always be. That is special pleading. Whether you like it or not, whatever you say about the universe also applies to your god. If everything has to have a creator then so does your god, if your god has always been, then it is also possible for the universe to have always been. |
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Topic:
WINDOWS 7 SUXS
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Don't look at me, Windows 7 wasn't my idea.
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Topic:
The World Cup?
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You still got a few left........ for me........ Uruguay beats Holland......Germany beats Spain Germany takes the cup...... 
Gotta top the 4-for-4 somehow.. Holland tops Uraguay, Germany tops Spain Germany takes the Cup on PK's. |
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did you see the part where they found the wood and the nails and spikes that might have come from the arc? it's on the side of a mountain in turkey Ok, how many different times has it been "found" now? 
Funny how all that science that does work with the age of the earth, and the age of fossils is suddenly good enough when they need it in an attempt to prove one of their fables. |
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Topic:
The World Cup?
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4 for 4.
What has Inkracer learned? Shoulda put money on the games..
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Topic:
The World Cup?
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Germany scores quickly.
quit your gloating......
3 for 3??? 
Germany 2-NIL.. Looks like it..
Sorry, I got the score wrong, 3-NIL, Germany..
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Topic:
The World Cup?
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Germany scores quickly.
quit your gloating......
3 for 3???
Germany 2-NIL.. Looks like it..
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Topic:
The World Cup?
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Germany scores quickly.
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Topic:
Hitchens has cancer.
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Let's not leave out, the joy a vast number of the religious seem to take in the misfortune of others.. Like joyfully thinking about Carlin burning in hell, or going on a tirade about how Katrina was God's punishment for Ellen D. living in/around the Nawlins area..
Yet they claim to be loving. I don't see the point in being joyful over someone else's misfortune simply because they don't believe the exact same thing that you believe. With Hitch having Cancer, chances are these people are going to be spewing their poison sooner rather than later. |
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Topic:
The World Cup?
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Holland-Brazil Uruguay-Ghana Argentina-Germany Paraguay-Spain I'm gonna say Holland, Uruguay, Germany, and Spain advance. Got one right. 
2 for 2.
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Topic:
The World Cup?
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Holland-Brazil Uruguay-Ghana Argentina-Germany Paraguay-Spain I'm gonna say Holland, Uruguay, Germany, and Spain advance. Got one right.
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Topic:
Hitchens has cancer.
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I think that Bill Maher said it best in Religulous:
"You don't know, and how do I know that you don't know? Because I don't know, and you don't possess any mental powers that I do not." |
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There will be a time when science will support religions. I don't know how, I am not a prophet. But it will, because what goes up must come down.
We will have to disagree there. The main reason that religion as started to fall is Science. At this point, I don't see it happening that Science starts to agree with religion. |
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Topic:
Hitchens has cancer.
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Guess it proves the only thing that's probably eternal is religious bigotry. -Kerry O. One of the other message boards I frequent (a racing one) had to lock a thread on the passing of George Carlin, because of the religious bigotry.. Stupid **** like "Well, he knows he was wrong now, hope he has fun burning in hell" The thing that pisses me off the most about those people is their undeserved certainty. I don't know what happens when we die, but I'm not going to speculate and preach that speculation as truth either. Hitch is in for one hell of a fight. Cancer is an ugly disease, I've watched it destroy a grandfather, a family pet, and recently have had to help a friend get through losing her father to cancer. |
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I would say that Science does not support anything in theism, whether theist or atheist. Science deals in the real word, Theism deals with belief. “Real world”?
My point being that "Science backs Atheism" is just as absurd as "Science back Christianity" or "Science backs theism" (My fault for not choosing the correct words the first time) They are, and should be, different arenas. That being said, I will trust a scientists words on Quantum Physics long before I will trust a preacher. |
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If you think that science supports atheism, then you better think again, because it does no such thing. I would say that Science does not support anything in theism, whether theist or atheist. Science deals in the real word, Theism deals with belief. |
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To get this back onto the topic of the OP... There are millions (or billions) of other planets in our galaxy, there are a huge amount of other galaxies in our universe, our universe could very well be a part of a bigger multi-verse. So, there are billions upon billions of chances for it to be "just right". So much so that it really isn't a miracle at all. hmm, kind of a different spin,, I would think that something having a one in a million or one in billions chance of happening, could actually VERY WELL be considered a miracle,,, The point being, there are billions of planets in that area of "just right". Right now, we only know of 1 planet with life on it. (I personally find it absurd to think that we are the only planet in the "life zone" with life on it.) I think the best analogy I can use is this: The "miracle of life" is looked at like a lottery, have to match each number correctly to win, but there are so many planets out there, that it is more like you don't have to be exact, you can be within 10-20 of that number to win.. At that point it is not a miracle. |
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