Community > Posts By > pingpong

 
pingpong's photo
Wed 10/22/08 01:31 PM
Edited by pingpong on Wed 10/22/08 01:32 PM

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/2492


What is that link supposed to prove? That Rush Limbaugh is a racist ass? Yeah, Colin Powell endorsed Obama. Do you remember why Colin Powell left the Bush administration? ding ding ding...because of the Iraq war. Now, of both the candidates, who wants to get out of Iraq? ding ding ding! Barack Obama.

No, but instead of actually "examining more closely" as you want to do, let's just assume that any black person who endorses Obama is doing so because they're black.


i didnt "attack" you. dont be so naive. im stating that alot of people love oabam caus ehes promises change but doesnt deliver on it. his campaign has been the same as everyone before him sinc ethe beginning, thats not change to me.



inre: naive: You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means.

And your statement wasn't about "a lot of people" loving Obama, it was about me loving Obama. Rather than addressing my legitimate points, you just said that I loved Obama. Just fess up.

pingpong's photo
Wed 10/22/08 01:21 PM



thats fine if you dont care. really it is! i dont care, but i think too many people lie to themselves and say it doesnt matter. no one is omcpletely honest because if a black guy votes for him cause hes black he looks ignorant, and if a white guy votes for him to appear progressive he does too.

on the flip side not voting for him cause hes black is racist. no one is examining the issues against him because as soon as you do its racism.


if oyu dont care, im glad and happy youre an evolved person ebyond what our G-parents might have taught us, but IGNORING the fact that hes black and it has an impact on the election is silly.


Why is that silly?!



because it HAS affected the election! not for you it semes, but millions of angry black young men are voting for him based on his race, not his views.

again if it doesnt affect you im proud to call you my country men but if it has examine your own motives.


African Americans as a demographic tend to vote Democratic anyway. Even if the candidate were white, you would still see more black people voting for Democrats than Republicans. It's probable that more black people who had not voted before are voting now because of Obama, but I don't see that as a bad thing.

pingpong's photo
Wed 10/22/08 01:19 PM



no rpoof? i question his church on several threads and was branded a racist several times over. ntm my co-workers think im racist if i dont like him and argue the point. honestly look around you.


If it's happening, you can link to it. I'm not going to waste my time backing up your baseless claims.

ping pong, i get it you love obama thats fine. why do yo ulove him? and i swear to god if i hear change one more itme im going to yell. all his ideas are re-hashes. hes got one of two things going on, hes a patsy for the dems, which is most likely, or hes really just wanting ot be president. no changes will come form him, and ive heard it several times here and on-line, im voting for obama caus eim sick of rich old white men.


I don't love Obama. I have a lot to criticize about him, but when I compare my views to Obama's views and McCain's views, Obama's views are much closer to mine. I would actually prefer to vote Green, but the issues that are going to be dealt with by the next president are so important that I have to vote for someone who actually has a chance.

And that isn't to say that I dislike Obama, either. There are a lot of great things about him, but he's very imperfect and while I like him loads more than Kerry, I'm not as OMG excited about him as some people are.

It's interesting that instead of replying to my comments, though, you attacked me based on something I never said nor implied. Way to go.



pingpong's photo
Wed 10/22/08 01:13 PM


I intended to be inflammatory. The point I'm making is it's inflammatory to hear that abortion must be legal because of incest, when it's such a small number of cases and current abortion laws don't require parental or father involvement. It's like the system was designed to make sure that victims of incest destroy the evidence. Once the baby is aborted, the mother has no proof of incest even happening. If the girls were encouraged to come forward with allegations of incest, then the fetus could be tested and the guilty punished.


I'm not sure how many victims would come forward even if there was proof, especially if it meant they were required to carry the pregnancy to full term. They would be teased, forced to drop out of school for a while, socially ostracized, and become even more ashamed... when they should have NO shame.

There is no guarantee the guilty would even be punished... our justice system is so f*cked up. I would take the girl having the abortion, getting therapy and healing from the experience over her having to carry the pregnancy to term, giving birth, having to testify and face him AGAIN in court... and then go through therapy.


Same goes with rape...most rapes aren't reported, most rapes that are reported are not prosecuted, and most rapes that are prosecuted aren't convicted. If abortion were only legal in cases of rape, what kind of proof would be required for a woman to obtain the abortion? Even if her assailant isn't prosecuted, she's still a victim. And what if she doesn't know who raped her?

pingpong's photo
Wed 10/22/08 01:10 PM
Edited by pingpong on Wed 10/22/08 01:11 PM



insanity hon. he was in a muslim school which makes concerns over that legitimate.

ive seen nothign but disrespect for mccain even after he swore not to mention obama's church. that was a kind move that obama didnt reciprocate.


It's funny how you imply that Obama is secretly a muslim in one paragraph and then talk about the christian church he attended for 20 years in the next.

Barack Obama attended a school in Indonesia for four years. It wasn't a "muslim school". It was just a school. http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/

Even if it were a muslim school, how would that make him muslim? I was homeschooled by evangelical christian parents who taught me creationism and noah's flood created the grand canyon...and here I am, a staunch atheist.

AND if he were a muslim? So what? What's wrong with muslims? While I dislike politicians lying, there are certain lies which are forgiveable. There are 20 non religious people in Congress but only one is openly so. Hearing all of the vile attacks around Obama's supposed muslim identity makes it pretty obvious that Americans think there is a religious test for presidency, and that the only chance a Muslim American has for gaining office is by hiding that part of identity. So, is Barack Obama a muslim? No. But if he were, would I care? No.

and he was in the home of a domestic terrorist who admitted blowing up the pentagon several times. we allow this kind of person to run for presidency?


I actually do think he's not telling the whole truth about Ayers. But I actually don't have a problem with Ayers. He caused some property damage in key places to protest the violent slaughter of millions of Vietnamese and tens of thousands of Americans. I guess that goes back to the old trope of "one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter".


all that aside, obama is still leading because as soon as you question his motives or his qualifications your branded racist if your white and nuts if your black. its not even a two lane road, its a one way alley and obama is doing 50 mph down it.


Again, where is this happening? You've provided no proof of this.

pingpong's photo
Wed 10/22/08 12:56 PM



on the flip side not voting for him cause hes black is racist. no one is examining the issues against him because as soon as you do its racism.



I keep on hearing this, but reality doesn't reflect it. I see attack ads and criticisms of Obama all the time. There are certain criticisms that actually ARE racist (he's a secret MUSLIM!!! where's his birth certificate?? he's going to enslave white people for REVENGEEEE!), and those should be called such, but the only time I hear anything about legitimate criticisms being called racist is from Republicans...I've never actually seen or heard more than a couple of fringe instances of this.

pingpong's photo
Wed 10/22/08 12:33 PM
I can buy clothes that look exactly like theirs at Goodwill and makeup for the whole family for $30 bucks at Target. And these are the people who are going to end frivolous spending...

pingpong's photo
Wed 10/22/08 12:31 PM



Racial politics is working for Obama...

He's been using them since he started his carreer...

Oh yeh... Forgot that by mentioning that I must be a racist...

After all no one must ever question anything attached to the great McBama.

We will be no better off under his 'leadership' then we would be under any of the current crop of politicos.

government has lead us around by the nose...

Result... National id card is allmost here... (cant buy or sell without it)...Patriot act makes it possible for government to place entire sectors of our population under watch...Banks are now complete under thumb of Fed...(they know when you buy n sell and can control it)...Patriot act give pres power to deploy fed troops in an 'emergency' capacity at his descretion... (do you really think this would be in place if Obama was not part of the establishment).(it does not matter which schmuk is elected they are all part of it)...YOU DO THE MATH.
:smile: Republicans are the only ones bringing up race.:smile:Over and over again.:smile:

Wrong... Obama used race in his first bid for public office. He has used it over and over again throughout his short political career.

He mentioned how it would be used against him when he announced his bid for Pres... thus making sure that everyone would be talking about it... He has reminded us over and over that everyone that is not for him is a racist...

the man used racial tensions like a comfortable coat... And many,many people bought into it.


When has he said that everyone that isn't for him is a racist?

As for mentioning that it would be used against him...um, it has been used against him. Acknowledging a reality isn't playing the race card. I know a lot of white people would prefer if people of color pretend that racism doesn't exist and that a black man having a good chance at becoming the POTUS is nothing new, but racism is unfortunately still a huge force in this country and ignoring it won't make it go away.

pingpong's photo
Tue 10/21/08 03:15 PM

go go power rangers....to jail!


laugh laugh laugh

pingpong's photo
Tue 10/21/08 03:03 PM

I totally agree with your point (b) pong.

Unfortunately, I have ex-in-laws who want to socialize my kids by "Little House on the Prairie" standards and I am not there enough to off-set it I believe. There's nothing I can do, except support my daughters' right to make their own non-life-threatening decisions and force them to explain WHY they make the decisions they make, so I can guide them accordingly.

My ex-wife's mom and dad didn't talk to her for weeks after she voted for another candidate than them in the last election. That's the kind of crap I don't get.


Yeah, that's frustrating. My ex is similar...one of the reasons I left him lol. But I am afraid he's going to pass on his stupid ideas to our son.

pingpong's photo
Tue 10/21/08 02:55 PM
There are things that can be solved politically, like equal pay and access to family planning and ending tracking in the school system and all that, but as for the whole cultural issues, I think you have to a. influence the media (there need to be more women on TV, radio, and online speaking out about sexism or just doing their thing; when the media pulls sexist crap, it can't be let off) and b. start from the ground up (that means teaching your girls to be strong and confident, how to stand up for themselves, etc. AND teaching boys to respect women, that taking care of babies and cooking are not "a woman's job", etc.)

im all for women's rights, but what about men's rights too? i wan tot watch ym kids grow up, not do 60 hours a week at work and be too tired to play with them. in the end its a give and take really, women need ot be ok with a little Bs as do men.


Um, what does that have to do with being a man? Women have to work our asses off at the expense of seeing our kids, too--even more, actually, since we're more likely to get stuck being single parents without child support, and since we have to work more to earn as much as a man makes.

pingpong's photo
Tue 10/21/08 12:50 PM
Okay, I didn't see anyone catch this on the first page and this is sending me into fits of giggles...

How is the lesbian divorce rate 108%?

Anyway, vote yes on prop 8. ;)

pingpong's photo
Mon 10/20/08 04:16 PM
Isn't it obvious? Legalize pot. ;)

pingpong's photo
Mon 10/20/08 04:06 PM





Uh...no one can answer what exactly DEMs have done for the WORKING class...WORKING being the operative word here folks.

So stop with the irrational hate & lies about REPS.


Health care, for one.


No...that does nothing for the WORKING class...

That's a govt. handout. What about job creation WITH benefits?

How about a flat sales tax... do away with income tax completely. Then everyone pays...even the drug dealers... no one would have to worry about the under the table money being made & not taxed. No one would have to worry about if the wealthy are hiding their money in swiss banks. Businesses would not have to work their buz around the tax structure. If you can't find a job then you aren't looking.

come on folks... suggest away.


It would do a heck of a lot for me, and I'm part of the WORKING class. (80 hours a week, seven days a week, plus college courses--can only afford insurance for my son, but not myself)

pingpong's photo
Mon 10/20/08 03:56 PM



Uh...no one can answer what exactly DEMs have done for the WORKING class...WORKING being the operative word here folks.

So stop with the irrational hate & lies about REPS.


Health care, for one.

pingpong's photo
Mon 10/20/08 03:40 PM

You're right...I can't help people who don't want to be confused with the facts.

That's no reflection on me.

Anyone who would throw common sense out the window & be initimidated by those who falsely use the race card are jerks.

I will be around to say "I told you so"...all you who want to hide your heads in the sand that is.


yeah, no racism to be pointed out in this election at all...

http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2008/10/obamanooseimage2.jpg
http://www.pe.com/politics/dearmond/stories/PE_News_Local_S_buck16.3d67d4a.html
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=39c3f3ee-24f8-4126-9ea8-f8b18ef1c2d1

pingpong's photo
Mon 10/20/08 03:30 PM
Edited by pingpong on Mon 10/20/08 03:35 PM
Okay, I'll point out in bold italics the uncited statements. Will I debunk it? I dunno. Maybe tomorrow. For the moment I haven't even taken a position on whether or not it's true, but if you like I'll take a look at it tomorrow and see if it's correct. My initial reaction is that it sounds like BS.





Healing the Health-Care System
Lawrence D. Wilson, M.D., December 2001
first of all, where did you even find this?

HISTORY CAN OFTEN yield insights into our dilemmas. Health care is no exception. The Founders of America envisioned a health-care system based on principles of the dignity and liberty of every person. They were:

1. A right to work. England’s system of guilds and licenses kept many people out of the healing arts. America would allow anyone to become a doctor or to open a healing school or clinic.

2. A right to choice. America would permit a variety of healers and healing modalities. Benjamin Rush, physician to the Continental Army and a signer of the Declaration of Independence, wrote, “To restrict the practice of medicine to only one class of men would constitute the Bastille of medicine.” where did he write this? he's mentioned, not cited. Unless there's a citation pointing to where the author found this information so that the reader can check and read the context, the reader is basically expected to take the author's word.

3. A limited role of government to protect the right to contract and to prevent fraud. Article I, Section 10 of the U.S. Constitution reads, “No state shall ... pass any ... law impairing the obligation of contracts.” Laws against fraud were to protect the health consumer. The government was not to play favorites and could not pay for, restrict, or subsidize any group or healing method.

How does this quote from the constitution back up what the author writes in the last line of this paragraph?

Free-market care
A few licensing laws existing at the time of the Revolution were soon repealed.uncited The three principles outlined above elevated America in the 19th century to the healthiest nation on earthuncited, although the American people were mainly poor immigrants. Innovation produced many new systems of healing. However, if you wanted to visit a witch doctor, it was your right. and you still have the right to visit a witch doctor today

Herbalists, nature-cure therapists, hydrotherapists, nutritionists, osteopaths, allopaths, homeopaths, and eclectic practitioners offered services. There were a variety of healing schools and clinics. No healing modality or group of healers had a legal advantage over the others. Whoever helped people the most prospered.

The large number of practitioners kept prices down and made health care very accessible to the population. There was no need for insurance. Organizations similar to consumers’ unions sprang up to inform people about the best doctors and the best methods of treatments. Certifying groups set standards for quality and training. uncited

Many people used private doctors. Others joined associations such as the Lions Club or the Order of Elks. They paid annual dues and their families were taken care of if they became ill or unable to work. Often these societies hired doctors called “lodge doctors” to care for their members. Government welfare later drove these societies out of the health-care business. uncited

Others in early America formed community health associations. These were cooperatives that hired doctors to take care of their members. A variety of church-supported, community-supported, and other private charities served those unable to pay for health care. uncited



The winds of change
Doctors at this time didn’t make much money. This angered one group — the allopaths, or drug doctors. In 1847, they formed the American Medical Association (AMA). A report submitted at the AMA convention in 1847 was unusually candid:
The very large number of physicians in the United States has frequently been the subject of remark.... No wonder that the merest pittance in the way of remuneration is scantily doled out even to the most industrious in our ranks.
The AMA decided to increase their members’ income by outlawing their competition. This is a standard way to raise prices, for it reduces the supply of a commodity. They would lobby the government for licensing laws. The laws would limit the number of doctors. In their excellent volume on American health care, Patient Power: Solving America’s Health-Care Crisis (Cato Institute, 1992)this is the first citation. my bad, there is at least one, not zero, John C. Goodman and Gerald L. Musgrave wrote,
Virtually every law restricting the practice of medicine in America has been enacted not on the crest of public demand, but due to intense pressure from the political representatives of physicians.
The AMA’s efforts culminated in 1910 when Abraham Flexner, a former school director and not a physician, was commissioned by the Carnegie Foundation to evaluate medical schools. He was the brother of Simon Flexner, head of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research. Working closely with the AMA, he completed a survey of medical schools that was practically a carbon copy of a report the AMA had done several years before. The report found most schools to be “substandard.”

Flexner and his AMA friends convinced Congress that to “improve health care,” most healing schools should be closed. They also recommended licensing of doctors and hospitals and government subsidies to drug-medicine schools and drug research. uncited

Because of heavy lobbying and because people were frightened into thinking they needed licensing, these measures were adopted by Congress and state legislatures between 1900 and 1920. The medical-licensing laws violated Article I, Section 10 of the Constitution.how so? To circumvent the Constitution, they invoked another legal doctrine — the “police powers” of the state.

The new laws caused the number of medical schools to fall from 140 in 1900 to 77 in 1940. The closings meant fewer physicians were trained. Schools either were shut down or failed because their graduates could no longer get a license. All schools that accepted women were closed. All but two schools that trained blacks were closed. Only the drug-medicine schools remained. uncited

This was the end of the right to work , the end of the right to choosehow so?, and the end of an impartial attitude by the government. A monopoly drug-medicine cartel replaced freedom of choice in health care.

Later, chiropractors, physical therapists, psychologists, and others would push through their own licensing laws, joining the horrendous system that persecuted them for so many years.

Interestingly, the medical monopoly was imposed about the same time as the FDA (1906) and the IRS and Federal Reserve System (1913).



From bad to worse
Costs began to rise because of a doctor shortage, the outlawing of less-costly healing methods how were these methods outlawed? you do realize that you can still go see a homeoquack, I mean homeopath...and all those others today, right?, and monopoly laws. For instance, in Mexico one can walk into a laboratory and have one’s cholesterol level checked. In America, one needs a doctor’s permission to go to a laboratory and a second doctor visit to obtain the result. A $10 test can cost you $100.

In the 1930s, a group of doctors started the first modern health-insurance company — Blue Cross and Blue Shield — as a way to keep their hospitals full. By the 1960s, pressure was brought on the government to do something about rising costs. Few people remembered it was government intervention (licensing laws) that created the mess in the first place.

In response, Congress enacted Medicare and Medicaid around 1967. They were hailed as the mark of an advanced and compassionate nation. However, the official U.S. government health statistics show that costs exploded after 1967, and this continues today.

A physician who worked in an emergency room at that time told me that when Medicare and Medicaid passed, prices tripled overnight. Essentially, the government told hospitals and doctors to charge whatever they wished and the government would pay for it.

Not only did doctors raise their prices dramatically, patient demand for services skyrocketed with the new “free” health system. Market controls and common sense were removed, replaced by an Alice-in-Wonderland “free-lunch” mentality. Exploding demand for services further drove up prices.

Health-care costs in America doubled between the 1960s and the early 1970s from about $35 billion to about $70 billion. This obviously couldn’t continue indefinitely. Instead of repealing the government programs that were causing the mess, in 1983 Congress changed Medicare, adopting what are called DRGs or diagnostic-related groups. This replaced the cost-plus system with fixed reimbursement for different categories of illness. Since then, many more restrictions, rules, and penalties have been added to rein in the costs.

None of the rules have stopped the spiraling costs. How can they, when the cartel is still firmly in control, there is little competition and few market forces at work, and responsibility for health care remains shifted from the individual to the government? These factors guarantee failure. The authors of the book Why We Spend Too Much on Health Care (1992) summarized it well when they wrote, “Government’s entry into the health care market dramatically expanded the volume, intensity and price of health care.”

Also to control costs, Edward Kennedy sponsored the HMO Act of 1973. The idea was to herd everyone into “managed care.” The law forced employers with more than 25 workers to offer an HMO option and offered $373 million in subsidies to start HMOs.

HMOs and other managed-care options have failed to control costs for the same reasons. The medical monopoly remains intact, and consumers don’t control their health care. Now Kennedy wants a patient’s bill of rights to fix the system. It won’t work either, but it will destroy the privacy of medical records.

It is interesting to note that our senators and congressmen are not subject to the health-care laws they pass for us. They have their own health-care system. The Federal Employees Health Benefits Program is wonderful, with more than 20 choices of health-care plans.

Another consequence of the government-sponsored monopoly is the overuse of dangerous surgery and drugs, instead of safer methods. In a landmark article, the Journal of the American Medical Association recently revealed that medical mistakes are now the third leading cause of death in America, just behind cancer and heart disease. Aside from the human cost, malpractice costs are enormous.

Many people believe the real intent of the patient’s bill of rights is to destroy the HMOs so that Americans will believe they have no choice but to adopt socialized medicine. Before discussing a better solution, let’s examine socialized medicine.



Socialized medicine
The first socialized medical system began in Germany on January 1, 1884 under Kaiser William I. Its purpose was to displace the ideas of the Enlightenment and reinvigorate support of the monarchy by forcing everyone into one state-controlled system of medical care. The program spread to other European nations in the early 20th century. It was accelerated and further centralized by Adolf Hitler. As Melchior Palyi explained,
The ill-famed Dr. Ley, boss of the Nazi labor front, did not fail to see that the social insurance system could be used for Nazi politics as a means of popular demagoguery, as a bastion of bureaucratic power, [and] as an instrument of regimentation.
Many people say to me, “Universal free health care sounds pretty good.” I ask, “Do you really think it is free? Do you really think it will be universal?” That is never how it works. Just ask any Canadian or Englishman. Canadians pay an extra 15 percent tax on everything they buy, and their system is still failing. The right to free health care becomes the right to stand in line for what the government decides to give you.

Socialized medical systems require large, costly bureaucracies. Government administration is five to ten times the cost of private-sector administration. Special interests always infiltrate the bureaucracy, so it rapidly becomes corrupt. Doctors find ways to defraud the system, so massive paperwork is required in an attempt to control fraud.

They also require high taxes. Including time spent and fees for lawyers, accountants, and tax preparers, individuals and companies in America spend more to comply with the tax laws than the income tax actually collects. That does not sound like an efficient system. Taxes, of course, are collected under the threat of force. That hardly sounds like a compassionate system.

While the IRS code and regulations are only some 10,000 pages, the Medicare law is 110,000 pages. Socialized medicine would be a jumbo form of Medicare. Are you sure that is what you want? Do you really think a Washington bureaucrat knows better than you do which healing modality and how much care is best for you? When you go to the doctor, do you really want to pay for a swarm of paper-pushers to monitor every aspect of the transaction?

I think the Germans had it right. Socialized medicine is not about health. It is a government power grab to control a trillion-dollar industry and a critical area of people’s lives. It would also further entrench the drug monopoly, ensuring poor quality care and high prices. It appears compassionate, but it is actually akin to the compassion of a Mafia boss. Driving costs through the roof, confiscating the money at gunpoint through taxes to pay for it, and establishing a wasteful system do not seem compassionate, charitable, or “advanced.”



Dismantling and repealing
The alternative to socialized medicine is to dismantle the monopoly. When special interests pass laws that do not serve the public, eventually they must be repealed. America did this with the trucking industry, the phones, the airlines, and many others.

Getting rid of the medical-licensing laws, HMO laws, and government subsidies to medical schools and drug research would terrify the monopolists but it would return the health system to health and sanity. Competition would increase, prices would drop, insurance might not even be necessary, and access to care would increase.

Lower-cost alternative health-care methods, now shut out of mainstream medicine, would be given a chance. In case replacing mandatory licensing with private certification seems odd to you, here is what Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman wrote,

I am persuaded that licensure has reduced both the quantity and quality of medical practice.... It has reduced the opportunities for people to become physicians, it has forced the public to pay more for less satisfactory service, and it has retarded technological development.... I conclude that licensure should be eliminated as a requirement for the practice of medicine.
Lori B. Andrews, professor of law and Norman and Edna Freehling Scholar, Chicago-Kent College of Law, explained,
Licensing has served to channel the development of health care services by granting an exclusive privilege and high status to practitioners relying on a particular approach to health care, a disease-oriented intrusive approach rather than a preventive approach.... By granting a monopoly to a particular approach to health care, the licensing laws may serve to assure an ineffective health care system.
I was trained within the monopoly system. I left it for the alternative health field because orthodox methods were unable to help my family with a cancer problem. Thus I have worked on both sides. Americans have been thoroughly misled about their medical-care system. Slowly, the same people are urging you to accept an inferior government-controlled system.

“Control” is the key word. The choice is whether to deregulate and return to a consumer-controlled health system or drift into a totalitarian system that isn’t working well anywhere in the world. Health-care goods are a commodity like any other. They will be rationed. Either you will control how to spend your health dollars, or the bureaucrats will decide for you.

The choice is yours. But make no mistake about it: your health and maybe even your life turn on it.




Okay, about midway through I got bored. I read the rest of the article once again, and the only actual cite that the reader can follow up on is the one from Cato. The rest are either mentions of names with no source, books with no authors, etc. Basically, it reads as an article by some whiny homeopath that's pissed that in order to be FDA approved you have to actually have proof that your medicine works. Frankly, I'm glad to live in a society where it is easy to distinguish between a doctor selling proven drugs and a doctor selling magic water. But anyway, I'll take a look at the factual claims of the article tomorrow.

pingpong's photo
Mon 10/20/08 03:00 PM
That article contains zero citations. Am I supposed to take that guy's word for it?

pingpong's photo
Mon 10/20/08 02:38 PM


If you need the father's permission, then you're giving the father all the power.

I don't think the father should have a legal say because he's not the one who has to be pregnant for nine months and then give birth.


How are you giving the father all of the power...right now it is the woman who has all of the power. If you need his permission then both parents have a legal right to choose. If they do not agree, they stand before a judge and he chooses.


First of all, the woman is the one carrying the fetus and therefore has to take all of the responsibility. You cannot divide a decision between two people. In the case of a woman wanting an abortion, if the father says no, then she can't have an abortion. In this case, only the father has the freedom to choose, not the woman.

pingpong's photo
Mon 10/20/08 02:36 PM
Edited by pingpong on Mon 10/20/08 02:36 PM

All good sweetie...but I do have to say, that in the case of rape, why wait? Why not take the morning after pill??


Lack of money, for one. You might not have the money to put up right after a rape, but with abortion you have more time to work with.

edit: and there's the whole thing where pharmacists can decide what to give out based on their religious beliefs.