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Community > Posts By > ShiningArmour
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Topic:
A question on killing
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I'm not going to participate in any ongoing arguments. Sorry!
I find this question to be both thought provoking and interesting. I'm always fascinated by tales from the wild west. I used to watch wild west tech when it was still on the air. I think I have seen every episode! Usually when a group of people came into a town the sheriff would bring them in or form a posse like the one at OK corral and give them a chance to surrender. You see in the old west guns were illegal. Nobody just walked into town with their gun hanging out where everyone could see it and start parading around like a **** on a walk. Ive seen tales like this on wild west tech (The show I just LOVE) and the sheriff takes the gun away. (By asking for it) Now lets go to your senerio. There is no law or order in this town? Well then it can't be hard to get a gun! Here's what I would do. Form my own posse and invite anyone who wants to join. The town could then rebel against these men and if need be, kill them. Now I know the ten commandments say: "Thou shalt not kill" Why do YOU have to do the killing? I have a whole stinking posse! A unbeliever could kill them! I may not find out till later! Now what if these men where found around town? People could stick a gun in their face and thrown them into a home made prison or hang them. OR we could always go to a neighboring town and get a sheriff there! In the end either my posse would take care of them -OR- Me and my family would leave. (Preferably under cover of darkness) I hope this thread continues and maybe someone responds to my answer as I find this thread really interesting. 
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Why do you bother arguing with abra? All he's going to do is reject what you say and misquote scripture.
Abra his what we call "Willfully ignorant" Or as kent Honvind puts it: "Stupid by choice" I can also speak of what solomon says in proverbs I think. "Show a fool the error of his ways and he will scorn you" Abra scorns us when we tell him what's right. Not even jesus would stick around when he was rejected. He would not sit and argue with sinners. Only those who wanted to understand. My suggestion? Ignore Abra and his rantings. Maybe when no one listens he will go and let someone else enjoy his teachings. |
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I've always rejected wicca because I view the supposed "gods" to be nothing more than demonic entities who's ultimate goal is to mislead and lie to the supposed "Follower" Wicca is a highly abstract religion. It basically becomes what you make it. It's not like Christianity at all. It's purpose is not to "save" anyone. It's merely a means of worshiping God. If you choose to see it as a means of worshiping demons, then that's your choice, and it's what you have made Wicca become for YOU. I personally don't even view Wicca as a "religion". From my point of view, a person already needs to have a concept of spirituality before Wicca even calls to them. By the way, I don't think you'll find many people 'proselytizing' Wicca. I'm sure you'll find educators who are willing to TEACH the basic concepts, but that's not proselyting it. I also tell people that I think it's a beautiful means of worshiping and communicating with God. But that's just my view, I'm not suggesting that they become a Wiccan. I'm just sharing my experience and view of it. By the way, you don't FOLLOW Wicca. It's not that kind of a "religion", if you want to call it a religion. It's a means of spiritual communique that helps you to find your own path to God. You create the path, Wicca merely provides the means. If I want to talk to a horned animal I will go to the zoo or perhaps start a goat farm. No need to pray to a fake one. Wicca isn't for everyone. It requires a high level of spiritual understanding and abstract thought. It requires an understanding (even if only an intuitive understanding) of the power and value of psychological archetypes. As I say, you don't need to understand this technically, it can be an entirely intuitive understanding (in fact that's even better actually), but clearly from your statement here you aren't even in a position to understand Wicca. Also Evolution does not begin to include God. Evolution is man's attempt to remove God or god's from the picture entirely. That's the whole point. If evolution is how the universe works, and there exists a God, then clearly evolution necessarily includes God. And no, evolution is not mankind's attempt to remove God from anything. That's totally false. Scientists aren't even thinking about religion when they seek truth. They just seek truth and accept what they find. To believe that all scientists throughout the world are all in some conspiracy to do away with religion and God is untenable, IMHO. The reason for evolution was that people wanted a scientific explanation for their origin. To say that God is responsible for all of this that we see is nonsense No. The reason we discovered evolution is because we seek truth and that just happens to be the truth of the universe we live it. Therefore if there is a God associated with this universe, then evolution is also God's truth. Think about it for a moment: What do you have here? The universe itself is telling us that evolution is true. God wrote the universe (surely you agree with that) Therefore the universe must ultimately be "God's Word". The only thing you have that conflicts with "God's Word" are some ancient superstitions written by a hand full of people from a very crude and rude society thousands of years. Stories that are not only impossible to verify, but are also extremely outrageous in thei claims. Stories than weren't even accepted by everyone at the time they were written (i.e. even the Jews dismiss the idea that Jesus was "The Christ"). So you want to TRUMP "God's true word - The Universe and Reality", with some ancient Zeus-like fable of a God who is appeased by blood sacrifices? Hey, if that what you choose to believe, more power to you!  But I certainly hope you don't expect me to think that way. Your attempting to mix evolution with God. The bible says God formed and made the earth and all of its inhabitants as we see them today. Evolution says evreything evolved from lesser forms and happened by sheer chance. They can't both be right! You can't mix the two together and get some new religion! That's why evolution is a religion is a belief. Nobody has to prove it because they believe it. Nobody has ever "Found" Evolution. Because like God it's not a proven fact. There's evidence of a world wide flood. There's evidence of noahs arc. There's evidence of jesus. These are facts. There is no evidence of all things happening by accident. It's a religion. That's all. The sooner you accept this the sooner we can move on 
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That's fine if you reject it abra but I think what pisses everyone off is that you repeatedly rant about your viewpoint no matter what the topic of the thread is. If you continue the responses you get will only get worse. Well, isn't that precisely what the Christians do to everyone else all the time continually and relentlessly never letting up. They repeatedly rant about their viewpoint that the Bible is the word of God and that Jesus is the only salvation and way to God, and all other religions are false, no matter what the topic of the thread might be? All I'm doing is offering the opposite vantage point.  I'm simply suggesting that maybe the Bible is what's false and some of these other spiritual philosophies might actually be closer to the truth. The only reason this upsets you is because it's in your way of proselyting your religion as the "only way". I make very good points of why the Biblical story isn't all that great and how it could easily be totally false. In fact, I wouldn't even need to take that approach if the Christians were already STOMPING all over my views of far more positive spirituality. All I need to do is mention something like reincarnation and the Christians jump all over it and start proselyting that the Bible is the only true word of God and that Jesus is the only way to get to God, blah, blah, blah. So it's virtually impossible to have a conversation about GENERAL RELIGION or GENERAL SPIRITUALITY without the Christians doing precisely what you accuse me of doing: "repeatedly rant about your viewpoint no matter what the topic of the thread is." That's all the Christians ever do. They repeatedly rant about their viewpoint no matter what the topic of the thread might be. They do precisely what you are accusing me of doing. So instead of bashing why not post your own views? Why say what we say is wrong? That's the whole reason why Ive changed this thread to discuss what YOU believe! Not us. Let me say that I believe that I am right. And you believe that you are right. There is no point in arguing because we will only reinforce in our own minds that we are right and the other is wrong. All I'm saying is leave christianity alone and stop bashing on it. I've done some research on wicca and notice that they support reincarnation as their view of the afterlife. This can't possibly be true and is nothing more than folklore. |
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I don't abra in fact I said in my last post that that's all good and fine! Believe whatever you want! If you read my last post, I got off the christian wagon and thought I would talk on YOUR religion! After all why talk about something you disagree with right? My religion? You were talking about evolution being a religion. That makes no sense to me. My religion is extremely deep and quite abstract. I would be more than happy to try share it with you if you the best I can if are truly interested, but if your intention is to just argue against it then I really see no point in wasting time telling you about it. It's not my intention to sell any particular religion to anyone. And that's fine I see that you've edited out your extremely derogatory and disrespectful remarks. I think that was very wise of you. I respect you for removing them. You said in your other post: "Now on to wicca! If you believe in evolution as Fact then you can't believe in wicca UNless you think that the god and goddess are phycological archtypes of the human mind. Which I think is a bit more believable." I absolutely do view the God and Goddess as psychological archetypes of the human mind. Absolutely. In fact, IMHO, that's the proper way to view Wicca. However, I will be the first to confess that not all Wiccans will agree with that view. For this very reason I do not even claim to be a Wiccan. Just the same I believe that Wicca can be a very beautiful way to commune with, and worship our divine creator. As I've stated before, my spiritual views are quite deep and quite abstract. I believe that, if there is a creator of this universe, that creator is also quite deep and quite intangible to our way of thinking. When it comes to belief in a God, there is one thing I place above all other things, and that's honesty. If the God itself cannot be thought of as being both, an honest entity, and an entity that appreciates honesty, then why even bother calling it a God? So to begin any spiritual philosophy of a "God" that is not demonic, we must start with honesty. The next, thing on the path to spirituality is to recognize honestly, that I do not have absolute knowledge that any "God" actually exists. And therefore to be honest with myself, and with any God, I must confess that I am ultimately agnostic with respect to God, (i.e. without absolute knowledge of God) I work forward from there, imagining two things to be true: 1. God truly is infinite in power and wisdom. 2. God truly does represent righteousness and all that is good. Based on these two premises, I can only conclude that no matter how great and perfect I can imagine God to be, God must necessarily be even greater and more perfect that what I imagine God to be. Therefore, I must choose the wisest and most righteous picture of God I can imagine. And if I can come up with an even wiser and more righteous picture of God, then I must accept that that picture of God must be even closer to what God is truly like. So my vision of God is constantly evolving. I accept that God is a mystery, and that I can never know God completely. Therefore no matter how great I imagine God to be, I must always be failing to grasp the entire picture. ~~~~ Based on these simple principle, I have long since rejected the biblical picture of God, because it neither represents the wisest, nor the most righteous, nor the most powerful or unlimited God I can imagine, and therefore it must necessarily be false, because it falls far short of describing an infinitely wise and powerful God. ~~~~ I refer to Eastern Mysticism as a spiritual philosophy that I feel most closely allows God to be infinitely wise and perfect. But one thing you need to understand about Eastern Mysticism is that this philosophy does not claim to describe what God is like. On the contrary, it actually holds that God is ultimately unknowable, and a mystery. In fact this is precisely why it's called Mysticism[/I}. God is an unknowable mystery. Eastern Mysticism acknowledges this. So for all intents and purposes, that's a bird's-eye view of my spiritual beliefs. There are many other concepts associate with them too of course. For example, I believe that since God created this universe, then however the universe was created is a reflection of God's work. In other words, if the universe reveals to us that we got here through a process of evolution, then clearly that's how God created us. Why argue with God's work? It is what it is. I've always rejected wicca because I view the supposed "gods" to be nothing more than demonic entities who's ultimate goal is to mislead and lie to the supposed "Follower" If I want to talk to a horned animal I will go to the zoo or perhaps start a goat farm. No need to pray to a fake one. Also Evolution does not begin to include God. Evolution is man's attempt to remove God or god's from the picture entirely. That's the whole point. The reason for evolution was that people wanted a scientific explanation for their origin. To say that God is responsible for all of this that we see is nonsense |
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I don't abra in fact I said in my last post that that's all good and fine! Believe whatever you want! If you read my last post, I got off the christian wagon and thought I would talk on YOUR religion! After all why talk about something you disagree with right? My religion? You were talking about evolution being a religion. That makes no sense to me. My religion is extremely deep and quite abstract. I would be more than happy to try share it with you if you the best I can if are truly interested, but if your intention is to just argue against it then I really see no point in wasting time telling you about it. It's not my intention to sell any particular religion to anyone. And that's fine I see that you've edited out your extremely derogatory and disrespectful remarks. I think that was very wise of you. I respect you for removing them. You said in your other post: "Now on to wicca! If you believe in evolution as Fact then you can't believe in wicca UNless you think that the god and goddess are phycological archtypes of the human mind. Which I think is a bit more believable." I absolutely do view the God and Goddess as psychological archetypes of the human mind. Absolutely. In fact, IMHO, that's the proper way to view Wicca. However, I will be the first to confess that not all Wiccans will agree with that view. For this very reason I do not even claim to be a Wiccan. Just the same I believe that Wicca can be a very beautiful way to commune with, and worship our divine creator. As I've stated before, my spiritual views are quite deep and quite abstract. I believe that, if there is a creator of this universe, that creator is also quite deep and quite intangible to our way of thinking. When it comes to belief in a God, there is one thing I place above all other things, and that's honesty. If the God itself cannot be thought of as being both, an honest entity, and an entity that appreciates honesty, then why even bother calling it a God? So to begin any spiritual philosophy of a "God" that is not demonic, we must start with honesty. The next, thing on the path to spirituality is to recognize honestly, that I do not have absolute knowledge that any "God" actually exists. And therefore to be honest with myself, and with any God, I must confess that I am ultimately agnostic with respect to God, (i.e. without absolute knowledge of God) I work forward from there, imagining two things to be true: 1. God truly is infinite in power and wisdom. 2. God truly does represent righteousness and all that is good. Based on these two premises, I can only conclude that no matter how great and perfect I can imagine God to be, God must necessarily be even greater and more perfect that what I imagine God to be. Therefore, I must choose the wisest and most righteous picture of God I can imagine. And if I can come up with an even wiser and more righteous picture of God, then I must accept that that picture of God must be even closer to what God is truly like. So my vision of God is constantly evolving. I accept that God is a mystery, and that I can never know God completely. Therefore no matter how great I imagine God to be, I must always be failing to grasp the entire picture. ~~~~ Based on these simple principle, I have long since rejected the biblical picture of God, because it neither represents the wisest, nor the most righteous, nor the most powerful or unlimited God I can imagine, and therefore it must necessarily be false, because it falls far short of describing an infinitely wise and powerful God. ~~~~ I refer to Eastern Mysticism as a spiritual philosophy that I feel most closely allows God to be infinitely wise and perfect. But one thing you need to understand about Eastern Mysticism is that this philosophy does not claim to describe what God is like. On the contrary, it actually holds that God is ultimately unknowable, and a mystery. In fact this is precisely why it's called Mysticism[/I}. God is an unknowable mystery. Eastern Mysticism acknowledges this. So for all intents and purposes, that's a bird's-eye view of my spiritual beliefs. There are many other concepts associate with them too of course. For example, I believe that since God created this universe, then however the universe was created is a reflection of God's work. In other words, if the universe reveals to us that we got here through a process of evolution, then clearly that's how God created us. Why argue with God's work? It is what it is. That's fine if you reject it abra but I think what pisses everyone off is that you repeatedly rant about your viewpoint no matter what the topic of the thread is. If you continue the responses you get will only get worse. |
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Edited by
ShiningArmour
on
Tue 12/21/10 02:39 PM
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I don't abra in fact I said in my last post that that's all good and fine! Believe whatever you want! If you read my last post, I got off the christian wagon and thought I would talk on YOUR religion! After all why talk about something you disagree with right? My religion? You were talking about evolution being a religion. That makes no sense to me. My religion is extremely deep and quite abstract. I would be more than happy to try share it with you if you the best I can if are truly interested, but if your intention is to just argue against it then I really see no point in wasting time telling you about it. It's not my intention to sell any particular religion to anyone. And that's fine |
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Edited by
ShiningArmour
on
Tue 12/21/10 02:40 PM
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OK that's all good and fine. I disagree with evolution! At least the bible offers to better your life somehow. I offers guidance and wisdom. All the evolution mythology/fable does is offer up some nonsense about how rock soup was one day struck by lightning and came to life. Then after some b-zillion years turned into people. Huh? Evolution has several flaws in it. Its supposedly based on science which is what you can see and observe to find fact and reasons for things that happen. OK When is the last time you saw a star form? When is the last time you saw a dog give birth to a monkey? Besides that how do you fill in missing links? Or the fact that water the essential substance needed for all life even got here? Science still can't explain that one. I can say God made the earth and the universe. I can point to several proofs. There is absolutley NO proof of the evolution mythology. It's nonsense and frankly the most stupid religion I have ever heard of. It takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does Christianity. You can say that some mystic gurus from the deep east said some nonsense. And buddah is the end all and be all of everything but I don't have to believe it. Instead of bashing God and stating all that's wrong with that I say we turn the tables and bash evolution for a bit. After all this is the general religion forum and evolution is a religion right? Even if it is a outdated moronic one. I'm not aware of anyone who views evolution as a religion. I most certainly don't. It's just a scientific observation of fact. It doesn't represent a religion anymore than gravity represents a religion. So I have no clue where you are even coming from. Even without any concept of evolution, it's crystal clear that mankind did not exist on this planet until after many lower lifeforms had already existed, and that death, disease, and all manner of what we think of as 'evil' had clearly existed. So the only point was making with all of that is that the biblical premise that mankind's fall from grace from some God cannot be the cause of 'evil' coming into the world. That's only one of the many observations of why I feel the biblical stories of a God cannot be true. If you don't care to believe it, that's fine with me. Again, you must realize that I'm not attempting to convince you of anything, or change YOUR religious beliefs in anyway. All I'm doing is sharing my REASONS why I don't believe in the biblical God. And all I expect from any Christian is to simply respect my views without accusing me of "rejecting God" or any of that nonsense. REMEMBER this is the GENERAL RELIGOIN FORUM, not the CHRISTIAN FORUM. I believe in an Eastern Mysticism picture of God. That RELIGION my friend. I also believe that Wicca is a very respectable and beautiful way in which to worship our creator. Again that's considered to be RELIGION too. Moreover, I respect Atheists in their choice to disbelieve in a God altogether if that's what they feel inside. I also respect Christians belief in the Biblical picture of God, as long as they don't try to SHOVE that view DOWN MY THROAT with threats that I'm turning away from God if I reject it, blah, blah, blah. If you want to believer in the biblical picture of God more power to you! But if you try to SELL that picture to me, I WILL explain why I'm not buying. And then, almost without fail, that will cause you to accuse me of "bashing" your religion simply because I'm trying to explain to you why I'm not buying into it.  And that my friend, is that make Christians and Christianity so disgusting.  They try to sell their religion to others, and when the other people try to explain why they aren't buying, they are then accused of "bashing Christianity". Quit trying to sell it so hard, and you won't have people explaining to you why they aren't buying it. OK Now we are getting someplace! Let it be known to prevent futher confusion as far as I am concerned the religion of GOD debate is over. Now Abra here says that evolution is based of scientific FACT. It's not abra sorry to say. Nobody has ever proven the mythology/fable of evolution. In fact a great man named "Kent Honvid" Offers large sums of money to anyone who can prove it without a reasonable doubt. Nobody ever has. Evolution starts off with the big bang. What exploded? Nothing did! It just...Did. This created planets and stars and all sorts of stuff! From nothing. Then after the earth formed all sorts of chemicals evolved and came to be...even though there was only two we now have an entire table of elements. That again came from....(Drumroll) nothing. That brings out a chicken and egg problem which came first? The chemicals to ignite and create stars? Or the stars to create the chemicals? Furthermore Where did the life for the bactieria come from? OK so it starts raining on the earth. It makes some soup lightning strikes the soup and the soup comes alive making bacteria. Now theres enough info in a single cell to fill 1000 encyclopedias. So complex one cell organisms come forth from...mistake? I find that hard to believe. I mean it takes less faith to think that God did it but again the choice for belief is all up to you. Just don't insult my intelligence by calling it science. Religion is a collection of beliefs which provide explanation for things that have and do happen. Beliefs! No proof needed. Evolution has NO proof. That's where it becomes a religion. Now on to wicca! I would make fun of this (I even have my own parody religion for wicca) But I don't want any curses put on me. (No offense) |
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Besides when you have someone saying your belief should be outlawed as a hate crime it does tend to stir up some anger. Well, then don't use it or support hatred and the suggestion won't come up. It's not us that spread hatred towards you. It is you that spreads hatred towards us. It's not us going into your forums to spread lies and try to belittle your beliefs, it is you that come to ours. Have to agree with cowboy on this one. Ive never said anything against atheism. Ive never called them bigoted hateful people who's religion should be outlawed as a hate crime. Heck I never even go on the atheist forum! I'm not an atheist! So I keep my butt off the atheism forum. I think if your going to belittle and hate on christians you should do it where it's accepted. Not here. Where it is not. I'm not an atheist. I have no hatred toward Christians in general. But I do feel deep animosity toward those who use Jesus as an excuse to support hatred of non-believers, and others. All I ask from the Christians is to acknowledge that a non-belief in the bible is a reasonable and sane view for a person to hold. That's all they need to do. After all, ShiningArmour you say: "I think if your going to belittle and hate on christians you should do it where it's accepted. Not here. Where it is not." You talk about this form as if it is the Christian Forum, but it's not. It's the General Religion Forum. Therefore why should I be belittled for NOT believing in Christianity? As soon as you show a little respect for my belief that the Bible is NOT the word of God, and that Jesus was NOT the sacrificial lamb of God, then we can move forward in peace. Until then, you are refuse to respect me and my views, and you are belittling them. So where do you get off expecting me to respect your views when you refuse to respect mine?  I don't abra in fact I said in my last post that that's all good and fine! Believe whatever you want! If you read my last post, I got off the christian wagon and thought I would talk on YOUR religion! After all why talk about something you disagree with right?
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Besides when you have someone saying your belief should be outlawed as a hate crime it does tend to stir up some anger. Well, then don't use it or support hatred and the suggestion won't come up. It's not us that spread hatred towards you. It is you that spreads hatred towards us. It's not us going into your forums to spread lies and try to belittle your beliefs, it is you that come to ours. That's not true. You accuse me of spreading lies, when in fact it is you who are creating lies about me. I do not go to the Christian Forums to renounce Christianity. Moreover, I have offered a very sane and respectable explanation of how the the stories of Jesus may have come to be. I've explained it many times. I see the Old Testament as nothing more than Zeus-like myths. There is no hatred in that. That's a perfectly respectable position for anyone to take. I also give many reasons for why I reject those stories as being nothing more than fables. Again there is no hatred in that. In fact, one of the reason I reject them is because I reject the idea that any supposedly all-wise God would even be associated with a concept such a blood sacrifices atoning sins. Again, that's just a very rational reason for rejecting these stories as having come from a divine source. So there is no hatred in any of that. And it's all perfectly respectful. Secondly I observe and recognize that Jesus did not agree with the moral values and directives that had been taught in those old fables, and I further recognize that what he actually did teach had already been taught by Buddha and many others before that. I recognize that Mahayana Buddhism was at its peak at the time Jesus supposedly lived, and that just further supports this idea. Once again, there is nothing disrespectful or hateful about that. In any way shape or form. Finally, I dismiss the entire New Testament as nothing more than hearsay rumors about Jesus that were either gross misunderstandings of what Jesus had actually taught, or potentially purposeful distortions with the agenda of making Jesus out to have been the son of the God of Abraham in an attempt to use Jesus to prop up the very doctrine that he had actually disagreed with. Again, there is nothing disrespectful or hateful in any of that. That's a perfectly valid view. So where are the lies, that you accuse me of Cowboy? I have a perfectly sane, intelligent, and reasonable explanation for how the biblical stories could have come to be and yet have absolutely nothing to do with the God of any Old Testament, or any sacrificial lambs being crucified to pay for the sins of man. And there is nothing hateful or disrespectful in any of that. If Christians have any sense of brotherly love and respect for others, they truly have no choice but to recognize that my views are perfectly sane and reasonable. Therefore, for them to continue to accuse me of 'turning from God', or for them to use versus from these ancient texts in an effort to belittle me, or condemn me in the name of God, is outrageous. It only goes to show how unreasonable people can be. I've just given perfectly valid reasons why I feel those texts have no value at all. Yet, here people are continuing to shove them in my face in an effort to condemn me in the name of "God". What they should be doing is confessing that I indeed have valid reasons for questioning the texts and that no sane reasonable God could even hold those reasons against me. There's no reason for Christians to hate me, and there's certainly no reason for God to hate me. And there is certainly no reason for them to claim that I'm spreading "hatred" toward them. Because to simply reject the idea that the Bible is the word of God, does NOT constitute hatred toward Christians. What seems to be happening here is that some Christians are spewing hatred toward me, and they are seeing that hatred being reflected back onto them. If they stop hating me and simply respect that I have valid reasons for rejecting the Biblical picture of God, then all apparent hatred would disappear. OK that's all good and fine. I disagree with evolution! At least the bible offers to better your life somehow. I offers guidance and wisdom. All the evolution mythology/fable does is offer up some nonsense about how rock soup was one day struck by lightning and came to life. Then after some b-zillion years turned into people. Huh? Evolution has several flaws in it. Its supposedly based on science which is what you can see and observe to find fact and reasons for things that happen. OK When is the last time you saw a star form? When is the last time you saw a dog give birth to a monkey? Besides that how do you fill in missing links? Or the fact that water the essential substance needed for all life even got here? Science still can't explain that one. I can say God made the earth and the universe. I can point to several proofs. There is absolutley NO proof of the evolution mythology. It's nonsense and frankly the most stupid religion I have ever heard of. It takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does Christianity. You can say that some mystic gurus from the deep east said some nonsense. And buddah is the end all and be all of everything but I don't have to believe it. Instead of bashing God and stating all that's wrong with that I say we turn the tables and bash evolution for a bit. After all this is the general religion forum and evolution is a religion right? Even if it is a outdated moronic one. |
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Besides when you have someone saying your belief should be outlawed as a hate crime it does tend to stir up some anger. Well, then don't use it or support hatred and the suggestion won't come up. It's not us that spread hatred towards you. It is you that spreads hatred towards us. It's not us going into your forums to spread lies and try to belittle your beliefs, it is you that come to ours. Have to agree with cowboy on this one. Ive never said anything against atheism. Ive never called them bigoted hateful people who's religion should be outlawed as a hate crime. Heck I never even go on the atheist forum! I'm not an atheist! So I keep my butt off the atheism forum. I think if your going to belittle and hate on christians you should do it where it's accepted. Not here. Where it is not. |
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Cowboy wrote: Yes heaven is EARNED. It's not an automatic given. It is EARNED by those whom deserve it. So for those that have not earned it and or don't deserve it, it is hidden. No, my friend, the heaven you speak of is reserved for only those who hate others and who love to rejoice and dance in their hatred of others. You people condemn the most loving people in the name of your hateful religion. As I've often said, Christianity should be outlawed as a hate crime. No my friend, we hate NO ONE. Heaven is open to anyone and everyone if they open their hearts and accept such a gift. Do you agree with what ShiningArmour said? Can you honestly defend such a post? That one in itself was quite hateful no? Yeah your right it was on the edge wasn't it? I was wrong. I just thought that Cherise Rose made some good points in the rant they made. Besides when you have someone saying your belief should be outlawed as a hate crime it does tend to stir up some anger. Look if you wanna believe in the God of the Bible, fine you go right ahead. No one is saying you aren't free to believe that as much as we are free to think different. But don't keep trying to shove that belief on us when it is not wanted. I have never attempted to shove anything on anyone! I can't speak for cowboy or anyone else but I never did. Now I do however attempt to correct incorrect thinking about my beliefs. However I now see that as a mistake. people will never bend to another persons way of thinking when it comes to religion. Therefor there is no point in arguing. No matter how compelling the argument the world will almost always ignore the christian. |
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Cowboy wrote: Yes heaven is EARNED. It's not an automatic given. It is EARNED by those whom deserve it. So for those that have not earned it and or don't deserve it, it is hidden. No, my friend, the heaven you speak of is reserved for only those who hate others and who love to rejoice and dance in their hatred of others. You people condemn the most loving people in the name of your hateful religion. As I've often said, Christianity should be outlawed as a hate crime. No my friend, we hate NO ONE. Heaven is open to anyone and everyone if they open their hearts and accept such a gift. Do you agree with what ShiningArmour said? Can you honestly defend such a post? That one in itself was quite hateful no? Yeah your right it was on the edge wasn't it? I was wrong. I just thought that Cherise Rose made some good points in the rant they made. Besides when you have someone saying your belief should be outlawed as a hate crime it does tend to stir up some anger. |
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Cowboy wrote: I'm not trying to make you believe what I believe either. Just won't stand on the sidelines when someone says it's a lie, it's not true, it's hearsay rumours, or anything of such. It doesn't matter to me if you believe or not, just won't allow someone to say bad things and or try to paint him out to be a bad person. So you can keep your religion to yourself. Weather you wish to believe it or not, you are trying to convince people to believe in your religion. And yes even if you are an atheist, atheism is nevertheless a religion. You're saying my belief is not the truth, so therefore with that it would state that what you believe in is the truth. So please don't tell me you're not trying to spread your lies. I tell no lies. I offer nothing but HONEST OPINIONS. There is no lie in an HONEST opinion. And there is no honesty in lies. Abra says: Besides you claim that all other religions are LIES when you demand that your bible and Christ is the ONLY TRUE WORD OF GOD. I don't think that you are totally convinced that any religion is true. Which makes it look so vicious when you speak out against the God of the Bible...You lost your ability to understand scripture a long while ago when you decided to speak against the King of Kings... You may notice that the bible mentions the term "mystery" for instance: Mar_4:11, And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: Rom_11:25, For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Rom_16:25, Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 1Co_2:7, But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 1Co_15:51, Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, Eph_1:9, Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph_3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph_3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Eph_3:9, And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Eph_5:32, This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Eph_6:19, And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, Col_1:26, Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: Col_1:27, To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Col_2:2, That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; Col_4:3, Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds: 2Th_2:7, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 1Ti_3:9, Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 1Ti_3:16, And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Rev_1:20, The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Rev_10:7, But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. +++++++++++++++++ GOD IS JUDGE OF ALL JUDGES. OUR OWN JUDICIAL SYSTEM HAD BEEN MOST SUCCESSFUL WHILE HIS WORD WAS ALLOWED IN COURTROOMS. What would be the penalty of you speaking out that way in a secular courtroom?...You'd be thrown in jail immediately...as you speak all the contempt here today, respect it or not, you are standing before a Holy Majestic JUDGE and King. When you logoff your computer and sit alone in your home or you drive down the street in your car...you are still in the presence of God. It is by His Grace that you make it to your destination. And you mentioned that God talks to others...and you feel He can talk to you too...well, are you sure you're really ready for that; for Him to speak directly to you??? At this point??? He has many (court appointed attorneys) who approach you day after day. To help you to understand what the Judge expects...how to respect protocol...but you speak out disrespectfully in blasphemus terms at that. You may intimidate some of the members in this forum, but not all...most know full well who is greater. Christianity breeds hypocrisy in precisely this way. You claim to everyone that only your Jesus is the only way to God and that all other religions are lies. Then when someone suggests that maybe it's the bible that is lie, you won't STAND for that? What kind of arrogant hypocrisy is that? Moreover, all I do is respond to people telling them why I don't believe their claims that the Bible is the word of God. So you're going to demand that the Bible is the "Word of God" and they you refuse to "STAND" for me explaining why I feel that it's not. That's ridiculous. You quite often disrupt what others say with lengthy words of rantings in your honest opinion. If you were honest you would admit to them that you don't know what the Bible is saying nor how to understand it. You have described the Lord God as "stupid" "idiotic" "bigoted" "hateful", etc. Many of those who are listening to your rants are not familiar with what the Bible says, and all they have is your extremely biased influence. I am aware that you claim to be some sort of teacher. But the only thing I see you "teaching" is hatred toward everyone's Creator. You wish to be the only one who "teaches" them. I've not seen you teach anything better than what you are trying to steer them away from. And besides all this, you have a very odd understanding of scriputres; picking verses out of the Bible that you don't like...not even using them in the respective applications. Your character is suspect. God is so awesome, you cannot even leave His presence until He decides. You are as small as an ant in His Mighty Presence...this shows His Grace and longsuffering...oh, and in case you are not familiar with what longsuffering implies...it means that there is a designated time that you are allowed to go on with your way of running things. You are stacking up evidence against yourself...or hopefully, He is allowing you just enough rope for you to hang yourself...until by His own mercy frees you from your suicidal attempt and tendancies. A FEW MORE OF YOUR RANTINGS: All humans have a right to comment on any texts that have been written by other humans who claim to speak for the creator of all mankind. I'm a human being, and that gives me the right, to comment on fables that claim to be speaking for my creator, especially when they are making all sorts of demands, commandments, and bigotries that they expect me to accept on behalf of the God who supposedly spoke to them, but refuses to speak to me???? What?  That's baloney. If God could speak to them, then God can speak to me. It's that simple Cowboy. You keep demanding that the Bible is the Word of "OUR FATHER", and you keep shoving that notion in my face, even in light of the fact that you know that I do not accept these rumors and fables as having anything to do with "my creator". If you want to believe in those fables, then be my guest. But if you're going to try to convince me that they are the word of God, then I'll explain precisely why I don't believe them, and it's not going to be pretty, because many of the reasons I reject the biblical fables are indeed because I feel that they are utterly stupid, sick, perverted, and downright unhealthy. That's my HONEST OPINION. You can call my HONEST OPINION "lies" until the cows come home. That's not going to change the fact that it's still an HONEST OPINION. I tell no lies. I just offer my views on things, and views are not lies, they are merely views. I don't care what you believe. If you want to believe that the is the word of God, please do so. But don't expect to convince me of it. I'm totally convinced that it's nothing more than false fables and rumors. I've presented my views over and over again: 1. The Old Testament is fables like Zeus with absolutely no more merit. 2. Jesus was most likely a Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva trying to teach sanity in the face of an insane society and religious beliefs. 3. The New Testament is either grossly misunderstood rumors, or outright lies that used the unfortunate crucifixion of Jesus to try to prop up the very religious values that Jesus himself renounce. That's my view. It can't be a "lie" because it's nothing more than an opinion. It's just my HONEST OPINION and my assessment of an ancient fable that claims to speak for the creator of all mankind. As a member of mankind I'm entitled to my views on these stories. Claiming that I'm spreading "lies" is a false claim on your part. All I'm doing is offering my HONEST OPINION. There's no lies associated with that at all. You just don't like my views is all. I also don't support any religion or spiritual philosophy as 'truth'. I do suggest however, that IMHO, Eastern Mysticism seems to be the wisest of all spiritual philosophies that I've seen yet. But I don't care whether people become Buddhists or not. I'm not a Buddhist. In fact, I don't affiliate with any organized religion. But I do feel that it offers more sanity than Christianity. 2 Thessalonians 2: Man of Lawlessness 1, Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3, Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4, Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5, Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6, And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9, Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11, And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12, That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13, But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14, Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15, Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 16, Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work. WOW I could only dream in my wildest dreams to bash someone THAT badly! I've since quit trying to argue,debate, or even talk to this lunatic (Abrakadabra) about anything. But you really expose him/her for who they are, a HATER and a bigoted one at that. I just thought you deserved a pat on the back and a gold star for something I could never do. God bless you CeriseRose! I hope you have a VERY VERY VERY merry X-mass! Congrats again on the gr8 post!   So you people love to use Jesus as a vehicle of of hatred toward non-believers? Why am I not surprised? Your scriptures make the following claim: "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" So you believe in a hateful God who deludes people from his TRUTH? Sorry ShiningArmour, I don't see where Cerise has exposed anyone as being a bigoted hater other than the very God that you people supposedly worship. So sad indeed.  What a hateful religion. I thought Jesus and God were supposed to be about love, not hate? Spreading hate for Jesus's sake, what an oxymoron. So what do we have here? Christians who, when they can't covert you, will bury you in hatred in the name of Jesus their Christ Almighty. This is a perfect example of why this religion is so hateful. For shame abra. Here I thought you would take the high road and leave this post alone. What's really sad is your need to retaliate. Revenge is not the answer! Learn to forgive my friend and you will be a happier person. God bless you. 
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Character origins can be so misinterpreted or intentionally glossed over so people do not understand the real story behind children's cartoon and game characters. http://www.cracked.com/article_18906_7-shockingly-dark-origins-lovable-childrens-characters.html Dark and twisted! That's really neat! I never thought or even knew that "Yoshi" dated "Birdo" I also liked the ninja turtles story. I think way to much entertainment is "Soft" Meaning nobody ever gets hurt,nobody ever dies,and at the end of the day all the happy go lucky characters go home for pizza and ice cream! Hooray! If you ask me, More cartoons should be like this turtles comic. If you don't like it....CHANGE THE CHANNEL! |
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Cowboy wrote: I'm not trying to make you believe what I believe either. Just won't stand on the sidelines when someone says it's a lie, it's not true, it's hearsay rumours, or anything of such. It doesn't matter to me if you believe or not, just won't allow someone to say bad things and or try to paint him out to be a bad person. So you can keep your religion to yourself. Weather you wish to believe it or not, you are trying to convince people to believe in your religion. And yes even if you are an atheist, atheism is nevertheless a religion. You're saying my belief is not the truth, so therefore with that it would state that what you believe in is the truth. So please don't tell me you're not trying to spread your lies. I tell no lies. I offer nothing but HONEST OPINIONS. There is no lie in an HONEST opinion. And there is no honesty in lies. Abra says: Besides you claim that all other religions are LIES when you demand that your bible and Christ is the ONLY TRUE WORD OF GOD. I don't think that you are totally convinced that any religion is true. Which makes it look so vicious when you speak out against the God of the Bible...You lost your ability to understand scripture a long while ago when you decided to speak against the King of Kings... You may notice that the bible mentions the term "mystery" for instance: Mar_4:11, And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: Rom_11:25, For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Rom_16:25, Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 1Co_2:7, But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 1Co_15:51, Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, Eph_1:9, Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph_3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph_3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Eph_3:9, And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Eph_5:32, This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Eph_6:19, And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, Col_1:26, Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: Col_1:27, To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Col_2:2, That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; Col_4:3, Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds: 2Th_2:7, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 1Ti_3:9, Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 1Ti_3:16, And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Rev_1:20, The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Rev_10:7, But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. +++++++++++++++++ GOD IS JUDGE OF ALL JUDGES. OUR OWN JUDICIAL SYSTEM HAD BEEN MOST SUCCESSFUL WHILE HIS WORD WAS ALLOWED IN COURTROOMS. What would be the penalty of you speaking out that way in a secular courtroom?...You'd be thrown in jail immediately...as you speak all the contempt here today, respect it or not, you are standing before a Holy Majestic JUDGE and King. When you logoff your computer and sit alone in your home or you drive down the street in your car...you are still in the presence of God. It is by His Grace that you make it to your destination. And you mentioned that God talks to others...and you feel He can talk to you too...well, are you sure you're really ready for that; for Him to speak directly to you??? At this point??? He has many (court appointed attorneys) who approach you day after day. To help you to understand what the Judge expects...how to respect protocol...but you speak out disrespectfully in blasphemus terms at that. You may intimidate some of the members in this forum, but not all...most know full well who is greater. Christianity breeds hypocrisy in precisely this way. You claim to everyone that only your Jesus is the only way to God and that all other religions are lies. Then when someone suggests that maybe it's the bible that is lie, you won't STAND for that? What kind of arrogant hypocrisy is that? Moreover, all I do is respond to people telling them why I don't believe their claims that the Bible is the word of God. So you're going to demand that the Bible is the "Word of God" and they you refuse to "STAND" for me explaining why I feel that it's not. That's ridiculous. You quite often disrupt what others say with lengthy words of rantings in your honest opinion. If you were honest you would admit to them that you don't know what the Bible is saying nor how to understand it. You have described the Lord God as "stupid" "idiotic" "bigoted" "hateful", etc. Many of those who are listening to your rants are not familiar with what the Bible says, and all they have is your extremely biased influence. I am aware that you claim to be some sort of teacher. But the only thing I see you "teaching" is hatred toward everyone's Creator. You wish to be the only one who "teaches" them. I've not seen you teach anything better than what you are trying to steer them away from. And besides all this, you have a very odd understanding of scriputres; picking verses out of the Bible that you don't like...not even using them in the respective applications. Your character is suspect. God is so awesome, you cannot even leave His presence until He decides. You are as small as an ant in His Mighty Presence...this shows His Grace and longsuffering...oh, and in case you are not familiar with what longsuffering implies...it means that there is a designated time that you are allowed to go on with your way of running things. You are stacking up evidence against yourself...or hopefully, He is allowing you just enough rope for you to hang yourself...until by His own mercy frees you from your suicidal attempt and tendancies. A FEW MORE OF YOUR RANTINGS: All humans have a right to comment on any texts that have been written by other humans who claim to speak for the creator of all mankind. I'm a human being, and that gives me the right, to comment on fables that claim to be speaking for my creator, especially when they are making all sorts of demands, commandments, and bigotries that they expect me to accept on behalf of the God who supposedly spoke to them, but refuses to speak to me???? What? That's baloney. If God could speak to them, then God can speak to me. It's that simple Cowboy. You keep demanding that the Bible is the Word of "OUR FATHER", and you keep shoving that notion in my face, even in light of the fact that you know that I do not accept these rumors and fables as having anything to do with "my creator". If you want to believe in those fables, then be my guest. But if you're going to try to convince me that they are the word of God, then I'll explain precisely why I don't believe them, and it's not going to be pretty, because many of the reasons I reject the biblical fables are indeed because I feel that they are utterly stupid, sick, perverted, and downright unhealthy. That's my HONEST OPINION. You can call my HONEST OPINION "lies" until the cows come home. That's not going to change the fact that it's still an HONEST OPINION. I tell no lies. I just offer my views on things, and views are not lies, they are merely views. I don't care what you believe. If you want to believe that the is the word of God, please do so. But don't expect to convince me of it. I'm totally convinced that it's nothing more than false fables and rumors. I've presented my views over and over again: 1. The Old Testament is fables like Zeus with absolutely no more merit. 2. Jesus was most likely a Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva trying to teach sanity in the face of an insane society and religious beliefs. 3. The New Testament is either grossly misunderstood rumors, or outright lies that used the unfortunate crucifixion of Jesus to try to prop up the very religious values that Jesus himself renounce. That's my view. It can't be a "lie" because it's nothing more than an opinion. It's just my HONEST OPINION and my assessment of an ancient fable that claims to speak for the creator of all mankind. As a member of mankind I'm entitled to my views on these stories. Claiming that I'm spreading "lies" is a false claim on your part. All I'm doing is offering my HONEST OPINION. There's no lies associated with that at all. You just don't like my views is all. I also don't support any religion or spiritual philosophy as 'truth'. I do suggest however, that IMHO, Eastern Mysticism seems to be the wisest of all spiritual philosophies that I've seen yet. But I don't care whether people become Buddhists or not. I'm not a Buddhist. In fact, I don't affiliate with any organized religion. But I do feel that it offers more sanity than Christianity. 2 Thessalonians 2: Man of Lawlessness 1, Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3, Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4, Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5, Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6, And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9, Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11, And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12, That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13, But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14, Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15, Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 16, Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work. WOW I could only dream in my wildest dreams to bash someone THAT badly! I've since quit trying to argue,debate, or even talk to this lunatic (Abrakadabra) about anything. But you really expose him/her for who they are, a HATER and a bigoted one at that. I just thought you deserved a pat on the back and a gold star for something I could never do. God bless you CeriseRose! I hope you have a VERY VERY VERY merry X-mass! Congrats again on the gr8 post!
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IF,,,,
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Well all other arguments aside, I have been in a situation to help someone else and I never did. Out of fear of what the person would do or say to me. So I guess my answer to the original question put forth in the thread is NO I would not help anyone even a little bit.
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Cowboy wrote: This finalizes that homosexuality to be immoral, sinful, and not accepted by God. Notice "no sodomites". A sodomite is one that practices sodomy and sodomy is anal sex. And that is exactly what homosexuality is. Thank you for your time my friends, may God be with you. What you are doing here is jumping to huge conclusions based on your own personal imagination of what homosexual people might be doing when they engage in physical intimacy. You have absolutely no clue how same-gender partners might express their their "sexual intimacy" for each other. You're jumping to huge conclusions based on total ignorance and obvious bigotries that you have been taught to believe. You say that you don't judge people, but not only do you judge them, but you ASSUME things about them that you cannot possibly know. ~~~~ So what are you saying here? Are you saying that if a same-gender couple told you that they wanted to get married, kiss and hug each other, and show their affection for each other in the normal ways that heterosexual people do when in public without being ridiculed for it, and they that they have absolutely no interest in anal sex, you could then have no objections to this because it would no longer be a violation of your the laws of your egotistical god? Evidently so. Because that's clearly the root of your objection. ~~~~ You've just opened the door and rolled out the red carpet for same-gender couples and same-gender marriage. All the Gay and Lesbian communities need to do is to change their "label" from "Homosexual" to "Same-gender lovers". Because, kissing, hugging, fondling, and even mutual masturbation are basically NOT sex if you demand that sex is only defined as either penis/vaginal penetration, or penis/anal penetration. In fact, in the case of lesbians, that's not even possible since women don't have penis to insert into each other. So Lesbians are already exempt from your accusations of sodomy. Even if they used a plastic penis or BOB, they could still insert that into the vagina and it wouldn't be sodomy. Maybe same-gender males are physically intimate in ways that don't require penetration of any kind. Who are you to say how they might be physical intimate with each other to express their feelings of love for one another? ~~~~~ The only thing that gays and lesbians need to do to is reject your label of "homosexuality" and simply demand that they be referred to as "Same-Gender Lovers". Then all or your bigotry fails. Your guesses and imagination of how they might be expressing their love for each other falls away and holds no merit. So you have absolutely nothing to object to if all they do is change their label to "Same-Gender Lovers" Perhaps "homosexuality" is a misleading label to start with because different people define "sex" in different ways. Not everyone require "penetration", and as I've said, in the case of Lesbians your charges fail anyway because they don't even have a penis to penetrate anything. They can't perform sodomy even if they wanted to. So by your accusations lesbians are free to marry. Only gay males are in question now. Homosexual sex and marriage has nothing to do with one another. The bible tells us straight forward marriage is for a man and a woman. Doesn't say it's for a man and a man, a woman and a woman, or anything of such. Says it is for a man and a woman. And you're gonna tell me there are homosexuals that don't involve themselves in homosexual sex activities. If they do not involve themselves with sex of the same gender then they are not "homosexual". Homosexual is sex with people of the same gender. Just because one may be attracted to another of the same gender does not make them homosexual. They become homosexual when a sexual action is taken between the two. And as I've shown anal sex is a sin. Thus male sex amongst one another would be sinful, less you wish to enlighten us on how two males can have sex without it being done anally. There's always oral sex. If that counts. |
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THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT IS WHEN WE ARE JUDGED FOR OUR SINS. That's not true. The Old Testament taught people to seek revenge, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Jesus taught to turn the other cheek and forgive. Jesus taught the wisdom of Buddha, not the violence of the Old Testament. Nope, your story doesn't hold water, IMHO. But what I have recognized to be truth does. So again, I'm not impressed. Your claims just don't hold true from my perspective. I see no reason to support male-chauvinism, religious bigotry, and a need to condone blood sacrifices in order to be "saved". None of that seems divine to me. And then you have a God who condemns non-believers for simply not believing that God is associated with all these horrible things? Sorry, that's kills it right there. Once again Abra your wise in your own eyes. Nobody can get through to you because you already believe that your right. To you you the argument is closed. Your mind isn't open to new idea's. No matter what we say your outcome will always be the same. It will never seem "divine" to you. None of it will ever seem right. That's the problem with arguing. All it does is reinforce the idea that your right and we are wrong. And what makes you any different? You do the exact same thing! I do believe that's the pot calling the kettle black. Yeah I guess your right. I've thought about quitting this whole forum deal. I mean what's the point? Nobody ever listens to what you say anyhow. If someone says Why would God send anyone to hell? I can explain it but they never listen! I'll probably end up going to the general discussion forum or something. |
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I never used to question this before though I'd question anything else, but I am now, and I don't think I believe it all anymore. I believe God exists, but if He's as loving as is said, more so then we, then the Bible version doesn't quite fit. A loving God would not damn anyone no matter what, a loving God would not force us to choose Him and His way with the threat of fire and hell, free will it isn't. How can it be, if there's a catch? How can a loving God damn someone for living a good life but just believing the wrong faith, or not believing at all? It's all a dividing tool seems to me, as everyone think they're right, and they argue it instead of loving each other, the powers that be pray on this. The truth is, everyone thinks they're right cause God can be seen anywhere, He is everywhere. Thoughts people? Anyone else come to these conclusions? I know I'll probably get flak for it, but logically it's common sense if you open your mind to see it. A good analogy for this is found in a book called "The case for faith" God is like a man at a party. Let's say you go to this party and spot this man. He is the best dressed,the best looking,and quite frankly awesome. He is the life of the party and is constantly surrounded by people. You have two choices, Choice 1. You approach this man and talk with him fellowship with him and at the end of the party go for drinks at his place. Choice number 2. You do not talk to this man. You avoid him. You do not join him for drinks later because you do not know him nor does he know you. Would you want to be forced against your will to go to his place? A man you don't even know? Of course not. It's the same way with God. He's not going to force you to do things his way. If you serve another then that is your choice. God did not send you to Hell, you sent yourself there by the life YOU CHOOSE to live. Besides that, why would you want to go to heaven and be with God if you don't even know the guy? Honestly, evreone in heaven would think the same way. They would all love and talk about God. You would be totally out of place there. You would not belong. You would be like a wedding crasher. The man at the party argument is ENTIRELY different! In that case, you are free to talk to the guy or not, and your soul is not gonna depend on that choice. With God, or at least the Bible's God, you either do it or you die. That's hardly free will when you're being threatened with hell if you don't comply. It screams of a control tactic that. Religion controls in 2 ways to me: 1. It gives people something to hold onto as far as an afterlife. 2. It keeps them from thinking differently by fear and threat of what will happen if you do. Combine those 2 together, and you have a well designed controlled system of thinking, and a way to easily bend the people to your will. As for the wedding crasher thing goes, I find that rather insulting. Of course I would want to be with God, and as His child do you really think He's gonna view anyone that way? If he's truly loving somehow I think not. Well it's up to you if you go to heaven or hell depending on your actions. That's not meant to be an insult! Why be forced to serve God in the afterlife if you did not serve him here and now? |
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