Long thread - my eyes now hurt.

Look, the Doctor will set you straight: MOST (not all - everyone's different!) men IMHO can easily separate sex and emotion. They are not bonded together as is the case with MOST women. "Most" meaning greater than 50% mind you. Maybe you fit that group, maybe you don't. Please don't flame me either way!

You may be able to catch a honey at the club/meeting spot, put a little alcohol in her to loosen the bond, and convince her by hook or by crook to share her goody-goodness with you. It won't be the same (definitely for her) than if she knew you, and you courted her the right way, and tilted her emotional side in your favor. If you perform the latter and share a special moment with THAT woman - done the latter way - the sex, no, the lovemaking will be pure magic.

Some of us men, because we're older, got cultured, were taught, whatever/etc, perform the latter and have hyper-wonderful-magical lovemaking and it IS better for all due to the emotional bond.

I'll share with you = I told my wife AND her special friend that I would have PREFERRED if they just had screwed! According to both of them, they didn't(?) They did, however, form that bond I was referring to. This was/is my extreme pain, and I am a little wiser in the process. No screw-ups for me next time...

So with all that, I think YES. Most (see earlier definition of the word) men DO think only about sex. But this it at certain times in their lives...

And on top of that, sometimes sex sex sex can lead or develop into to love! Arrrrgh - too complicated. This is why just sex CAN BE a good thing - it is fairly simple = Tab A goes into slot B, then C will come out (ha!)

I STILL stand by my statement! When you are in lust, endorphins and other gooey gooey are flowing about. The same hormones are present when in love.

The other explanations work too since love means different things for different people - and we're all different.

Love = The mere thought of living, boating, sleeping, running, sitting, screwing, etc, without that person gives you serious pause. You're like, "what?" I couldn't do THAT without <insert target loved one here> stop that crazy talk...

I got more money! Here's my two cents:

TeeBee, you and DoDoDavid post really good questions.

I am originally from the Wild Hundred's (South Side) of Chicago. The term "Gold Digger" was what we used to describe that girl that was primarily concerned with what she could get out of who she was with. Regardless of how you looked, how you dressed, whether you were pleasant or not, etc, it didn't matter. IF you had loot, you were IN in every sense of the word.

I don't see anything wrong with a lady that is lovely on the inside & out who is concerned about a guy's financial situation - it just shouldn't be the primary deciding factor...

Reminds me of a N.C. story (my own) Picture a nite-club on the ground floor of a Ramada Inn, a coochie-for-cash girl, and being out of like $2,200!!! The coochie was good, but I should have saw that one coming! Live and learn folks, live and learn.

David, good one!

Here's the deal: When in the military, and in Japan, we are covered under the SOFA act - or the Status Of Forces Agreement. Long policy made short, it is ME that is the basis for sponsorship; MY name is on and in everything from the lease on the house, to car registration, the kids' registration in school, drivers' licenses, ID cards = everything. If we ever actually get divorced, her way of doing business/job would change greatly as her car would lose it's "Y" status, and her getting on base would require a letter and/or frequent sign in. Also when it's time to re-register her car every year and pay the various taxes, it would cost a good bit more. I don't want the outdated USFSPA forcing HALF of my retirement + current pay + alimony. She actually agrees with me in that it is not completely fair, and both of us are not (currently) going to put each other through the hassle. I am doing the right thing and paying 75% of all child-related expenses as well as putting money away - monthly - for their college education.

So with all that, money & convenience are our justifications for not getting divorced - or at least that is what I believe. Either way, there is no getting back together for us. She says I have been a d!ck since day one, and I found out she had a significant other which still makes my heart & soul ache. For all I know she is just marking time until the 20-year mark, where she rates her own ID card, and other things. Sigh.

This is an OLD thread, but the topic peaked my interest so here's my two cents...(more like no sense, right?)

I think it boils down to maturity, experience, and expectations. When I was coming up, if someone had kids, but not married to that dude, she was a no-no. I couldn't wrap my head around getting with her, and her kids are around. I couldn't imagine sharing her responsibility of raising those kids. I wanted a new car, not a car and a trailer!

Now karma, if you subscribe to it, is something else. I am now a kinda single dad. Dammit!

Hey, it is what it is, and life teaches us lessons. I wish you the best dude. She's (or he's if you swing that way) out there hopefully...

Conrad - WAY DEEP.

ALCON - So we agree then!?

Tangent much? Remember the Love is... comic? Here's a few from Darnell:

Love is your day brightening-up just thinking about them
Love is unselfish
Love is patience
Love is maddening
Love is forsaking yourself and your own needs
Love is sharing your worldly possessions
Love is DEATH of your individual soul, and the birth of a combined one
Love is <insert pretty much anything here>

I would kill to get back in love but fear the extremely high possibility of it NEVER happening again because of what has happened in the past. That, and I think too much.

Love is, in many ways, insanity.

Oh, and BTW - Good point. But if you think about it, those lucky (IMHO) S.O.B's that found their significant soulmate at the workplace more than likely would NOT be up in here!

They are too busy shuffling work, kids, and their happy-a$$ relationship...

hmmmm. Jealous much? (yes, I am)

So to recap: Don't do it?

Q: What if that coworker is YOUR "click"

Q: What if you and him were destined for one another, and an event somewhere along the line put the two of you in the same workplace to help it come to fruition?

Q: What if you know enough about that person, because you work together, and they fit your "ideal mate-list" > ?

Q: What if <insert optimistic possibility here> ?

Last Q: What if ifs were fifths? (we'd ALL be messed up)



Moral: Don't miss that magic boat. You may have to ride a few dingys (terrible pun) before landing on that cruiseliner.

Don't agree with THAT lunatic! Deep down inside, I don't want to believe that. Maybe I have had that awakening or mid-life crisis that folks talk about, but I don't want to die alone. If you choose to be alone I guess that's one thing, but you have to admit = sharing a decent life with someone you love is however better (.0003%? - 100%) than living it alone.

I truly agree with the old guy with four arms. Although I have become, or always have been a cynical wisea$$, comments like that give me pause and stir the microkernel of empathy in my empty head/heart.

Don't you believe what you just said - you just haven't met the right guy (or gal) yet. It is possible he (or she) doesn't exist or got scooped up already...

Maybe this is wrong: You go looking for your dream car, and you have tons of "must-haves" but cannot for the life of you find THAT car. IT might be time to widdle down that list.

If it looks like you friend, your sister, whatever is in a happy, blissful, tv-style marriage - they probably ain't really, they just work really hard TOGETHER to make it work. Some have to put tons of effort into it, some just click. I have one friend like that - him and his wife just clicked. You would think they are brother and sister they are so alike...I'll stop rambling and go to sleep now. Cheer up!

It's good-to-go. I don't see it (personally - sigh) as much as I did when I was in my 20's though. In this day-n-age, post women's revolution (?) it SHOULD BE acceptable, but again, to each his/her own.

Tangent again: I remember California in 1990, my bunkmate and I were out and about in the Carlsbad Mall, and the ladies were NOT shy! Again in 1991, I was in Jacksonville, N.C. The ladies there, and in Kinston; Greensboro; Rocky Mount; and other places stepped right up to a brother as was like, "What cho doin'?" It was on like donkey kong after that. I actually met some really good people. It seemed like everybody in N.C had kids though...Baby-daddy for the night! (j/k?)

Those were the days. Now I am in Japan around the world's most utterly reserved women on the planet. DOH!



With all that, yes, I feel that it is perfectly acceptable. Just be ready for the "traditional thinkers" whom might think it's crass. I ain't one of 'em.

We're all mostly responsible:

Him=(huffing, tired, exhausted, spent) "How was THAT?"
Her=(ready to go do anything else, unsatisfied) "That was Tony-the-Tiger G-R-E-A-T!"

-conversely-

Her=(she KNOWS she doesn't wear that size) "Hey, how's this look with these shoes?"
Him=(he thinks those shoes and pants never have matched & never will match, AND her tummy is sticking out like she herself has said she hates to see, he thinks it's kinda sexy) "It looks pretty good, what do you think?"

Both generic situations happen often, and many times result in nothing major. BUT - don't let it be that time of the month, or after and unpleasant event at work, or following a similar situation that was not answered properly or intelligently. Therein lies (pun) the tricky-to-navigate part. Tell the absolute truth and you could be signing your death cert, lie a little/expertly manage your words, and you are a superstar. You are right, relationships are hard work!

Edit: I'm gonna be single for the rest of my life (sigh) so I better get used to it! I think TOO MUCH sometimes...

Further, sometimes I think "we" over-romanticize the concept of love. It may not be anything more than believing that person you're with is the one you were "destined-for" or it could have been y'all's situations just so happen to coincide. Fate? don't buy it, don't subscribe to it cause if you do, you are saying you have very little to do with the outcome of most situations.

I have a number of friends that met their wives in places and doing things that the average person would be surprised to hear. Does that mean that what they have isn't love? So what when you met your wife she was a lady of the evening and you got her pregnant. If what you feel is good enough for you, and the two of you click, label it love, and do your own happily ever after. Conversely, so what if you met your man while he was running from the police after having robbed a store to pay his child support! If what you have works for you, roll with it.

Love itself is fleeting = you can't really see it, touch it, smell it, hear it, or taste it - but it is wonderful none-the-less, and that feeling shouldn't, but it can disappear even faster than it came over you...

Go to you local prison, and see just how many of those folks are in there because of love in one way or another. Not being too pessimistic/cynical, but love can be one hell of an fickle-@ss emotion!

I'm out of money having provided my two-cents

Me thinks I have a grasp on it - for me. Again, it WILL be different for everyone. Folks explaining it may speak a few similarities, or subtle nuances, but it's a custom-job on a Harley. You might not like my all black with chrome scorpions on the tank & rear fender, or you might love it. I don't own a Harley BTW, but I once found a soft tail in the middle of the desert! Focus!

Someone sounds somewhat angry...I know how you feel. And that's no lie.

Twists, okay:

The severity of a lie....it matters (to me)
The frequency of lies....they matter (to me)

Point #1-If there is no way in hell you can logically justify the lie in which someone has told, then that lie is too much for you. Tell the person, and if they concede to the fact that they lied, apologize, maybe produce some flowers, and NEVER DO IT AGAIN, then you should work on finding some forgiveness. If not, Guy's song comes to mind, "Now I'm sayin bye bye to you..."

Point #2-Once the lie threshold had been reached, and you find yourself questioning most of what comes out of their mouth, talk about it, and again, if no resolution can be sought, they need to gee-oh. Life is challenging enough without having to decipher, decode, analyze, and certify if something that is said is the truth or not. I'm tired just from typing it, I can't imagine doing it! (any more) This is why somebody don't live here anymore.



Summary: You're right, but maybe it ain't really "simple" so much as it isn't that hard...

Really good point! What about the lie of omission? Just not mentioning something - isn't that a lie too!?

I had thought up a witty retort but Simplicity put it best. My take:

Lying, cheating, stealing. You ever wonder why you may have heard this trio together? It's because they are really good friends/accomplices, and live right next to each other. One is usually a gateway to the other. I guess you could equate them to roads too; each one intersecting at multiple points. White lies, as NavyGirl stated, are still lies nonetheless, and again we visit the "lines" conversation. There are so many lines we must traverse; dedication/obsession, motivation/insanity, truth/exaggeration/lie, the list is endless.

Ever notice how the little white lie about Santa usually blossoms into multiple lies? I thought of that this past year as I was spinning them at a cyclic rate to my 11 y/o. You have to wonder why:
1. To prevent something you shouldn't have been doing in the first d@mn place from coming to light.
2. To "protect" someone from a truth which would hurt them or effect (affect?) them negatively.
3. To protect yourself from some type of admonishment because of something someone did.
4. To prolong a lie told previously.
5. Again, long list.

I guess the depth of the lie(s) also dictate whether or not it is too much. You also have too consider your OWN tolerances. If "they" lie about paying a bill for example, but get it paid on time with no fees, are they the big bad satan? It depends. Will lies like that blossom into other areas of life? They may. It's a slippery slope that we would all benefit from avoiding. I did my d@mndest to make sure my profile was lie free. Note: There may be an exaggeration or two though...

I don't really like interior decorating, I just like spoiling myself.

See!

(Tee, your tee-shirt avatar is nutz!)

I see it, and I won't lie on myself. The mere thought of what some might call an overly independent woman (read: you & NavyGirl + others) with me does give me pause.

I ain't saying y'all are too much, but me thinks we would have a harder time than "usual" because y'all have broken away from many things which are IMHO stereotypically feminine. I ain't sayin nothing like "barefoot & pregnant" or "better be in either the kitchen or the bedroom" but I always have wanted to be "the breadwinner" especially after my dad was the farthest thing from it. TV didn't and doesn't help either.

My wife used to tell me, "that's why you didn't marry a black woman!" and me thinks she was partially right. For me, I think it boils down to my 0-to-15 (formative years) of watching my peeps do what they did, and me processing what I saw. I declared many of the things I saw them do as "wrong/fail" and made sure I did NOT do those things. I STILL ended up in a mess though. (sigh)

With all that - maybe you were too much for him at that time. Either that or the Lord had his ear...


Do you think that if you got with a very aggressive, assertive, alpha-male-type guy you would maybe change a little? I would think that if one of you didn't change a little, fireworks (not the happy-sparkly type either) would ensue.

Love is defined by Websters as follows:

1a (1): strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties <maternal love for a child> (2): attraction based on sexual desire : affection and tenderness felt by lovers (3): affection based on admiration, benevolence, or common interests <love for his old schoolmates>
1b: an assurance of affection <give her my love>
2: warm attachment, enthusiasm, or devotion <love of the sea>
3a: the object of attachment, devotion, or admiration <baseball was his first love>
3b (1): a beloved person : darling —often used as a term of endearment (2) British —used as an informal term of address
4a: unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another: as (1) : the fatherly concern of God for humankind (2) : brotherly concern for others
4b: a person's adoration of God
5: a god or personification of love
6: an amorous episode : love affair
7: the sexual embrace : copulation
8: a score of zero (as in tennis)

MY POINT?

Love has way more than eight (8) definitions, it's more like 6,973,738,433! Love means many different things to many different people. My take: A state or feeling, coupled with actions, which inwardly & outwardly manifest your adoration of someone or something. You can love her or him, you can love it or that. The magic happens which two people love each other, each in their own way, and a magical symmetry occurs.

Again, when (and if) you get to this state, CHERISH IT, nurture it, and protect it above all else. Once it's gone, it usually stays gone.

NavyGirl, I just KNEW you were gonna sodomize me (textually) and you didn't; thank you for that.

I fully understand what you meant, and I agree with you 100%. Putting a label on anything is not possible because there are situations/people that stand out - like you. I tried to better justify my statement by using the word most, but as I learned in one of my college courses, even that is a gross generalization. Maybe the word many instead?

This just goes to show ya that there is NO "Magic Book" of techniques to apply to a relationship; everyone just needs to do their best to be honest, forthright, pleasant, etc, while adjusting as necessary for those around you or the one you're with. And even that can be a challenge. You know what "they" say - "nothing worth having comes easily"