The only times money has ever played a role in my relationships it ended up as something screwy. I keep money out of it.

People who think money is a part of love in most cases have already lost the chance of true companionship.

Don't get me wrong, if your mature you can talk about and spend or not spend till the cows come home, but when it enters in as an aid to your love, you've lost.

You have got to be able to seperate the two. They have nothing to do with each other and more often than not will end the relationship if turned into an issue.

See how many times money topics are brought up here? Crazy, and in most of them you can feel the burn it has left on souls. Money is so closely related to greed and survival that it has (because we are greedy) become a quality instead of an utility for getting something done. I have a thousand, you have a hundred, does that make me more loving than you? Ridiculous. I would rather live in a box with someone I worked together with on real issues than sit in the penthouse arguing about the bills. There's no 0 "zero" quality of good living arguing about bills.

Sounds like a wonderful relationship Claire...You were/are blessed to have experienced a love so grand... .

I was married for ten years. I've been single again now for two, which I don't consider a 'long time'. But I'm comfortable talking about sex, and no, it isn't a matter of discussing favorite positions... more a matter of discussing our personal feelings about sex, how frequently we might each consider 'ideal' in a relationship, etc.

*shrug*

You make a very good point...that intimidation tactics used against shy and humble people are meant to make them feel ashamed... if they have done anything that can be used in this manner against them, but if not, then I would also imagine that if someone is unfairly mistreated long enough, no matter how polite they want to be, they will stand up to those who think they are superior... Don't you think?

What I'm saying is I don't think someone necessarily has to be single for a long time to be into talking about sex. Just realize that people are different. That's all.

I'm not sure that it really has to do with women being single for a while. You may not be ready to talk about sex, or to date, but that doesn't mean someone else who has been married before, or in a long term relationship is going to feel exactly the same way.

You seem to be judging women by the length of time they've been single and then you turn around and say not to judge a book by the cover.

I think that you and that guy are getting the wrong end of the stick a bit. Let's assume that I've met someone and it has got to the dating stage or we are having a chat on the phone and the topic of sex comes up in conversation. I make a judgment about her depending on what she says about it. I don't try to send her naked pictures of myself or ask her what colour underwear she's wearing or anything like that and then say to her that we are both adults and that she shouldn't be a prude about that stuff.

I just form an opinion about a woman when she talks about sex or I make a judgement about her based on how she reacts when I bring it up. I don't do it in a sleazy way and even if I do think that she is a bit of a prude I am not going to tell her off or "reproach" her for it. Why would I do that? All I want to know is if she is compatible with me and how she feels about sex. I want to know what a relationship with her is likely to be like because I am looking for someone that doesn't have a load of hangups about sex or some set of moral standards about it that will mean that she isn't going to be much fun to have as a girlfriend.

I just don't click with women like that and sorry but I'm not really going to want to wait until the wedding night because I'm looking for a girlfriend and wouldn't even think about marriage without seeing how we worked together as a couple first. I don't just want to know how we get on as friends. If someone says to me that she doesn't believe in sex before marriage then who's putting the pressure on and being judgmental? I'm not demanding anything or insisting on certain conditions when I have these conversations with women. I'm not telling them that they have to do anything that they don't want to do and all I want to know is what it is that they do want.

Yes, I've noticed the same type of passive-aggressive behavior that you describe being posted on the boards all the time... And some people don't even bother to be subtle about it... so to me, that is more of an overtly aggressive type of offense, and it would be headline news to know how the other party being trashed really feels about it...

Yes, in doing a little Google search of Wikipedia we can find that our government has done studies that define emotional, mental, psychological abuse as being perpetrated by those who seek power, and control over others. And apparently, it has been discovered that we women are substantially more likely to exhibit psychological aggression, and that it can be regarded as a normalized element in dating. Jeezz… aggressive women is considered the norm now… yikes… the research goes on to tell us that subtler emotionally abusive tactics include insults, putdowns, arbitrary and unpredictable inconsistency, and gaslighting (the denial that previous abusive incidents occurred). Modern technology has led to new forms of abuse, by text messaging and online cyber-bullying.

And it’s also stated that male and female perpetrators of emotional and physical abuse exhibit high rates of personality disorders. While abusers can be very manipulative, often recruiting friends, law officers and court officials, even the victim's family to their side, while shifting blame to the victim. This is the scary part to me… that abusers are so smooth they can fool anyone into believing they are right and the other is wrong.

And then when a woman decides to protect herself from this type of arbitrary mistreatment, lets say by recording the behavior, she is looked on as the man hater... our world is truly spinning out of control...

Tammy Wynette relates her own version of why couples don't stay married for a lifetime....

D-I-V-O-R-C-E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2o9-jmtNoU

Our divorce becomes final today...


******************************************************

One of my good friends and his wife had a two week vacation like that. Two weeks with nothing but yard sales. They had saved for a while since they both worked. They got some great bargains but sure were happy to get home. I thought it was quite an original idea. It certainly helped their relationship because with all their work fun was something they sorely missed.

Recently in Mountain Home which is about 24 miles away I was just going to go to the Salvation Army but discovered that the whole road had a lot of thrift shops. I may have to have a yard sale to help me with all the hoarding.

I'll be honest: I'm noticing (not just here) so many who look at men as somehow wanting only sex and nothing more, who'll take it "for free" when they can get it and give nothing in return.

Seems like a stereotype to me, because while I've known my share of guys like that, I've also known guys who actually wanted both sex AND a relationship, and some who preferred to be in love before having sex.

I think there's probably as much variation in male attitudes toward sex and relationships as in the female counterpart of those attitudes. The difference is that society has glorified the idea of a guy going out and "getting some" while it has (until recently) still put forth the idea that women are to "give it up" only for a price of some sort.

Note the differences there: Men "get some" while women "give it up". Personally, I think that's bullshyte of the finest Victorian vintage (in other words, WAY past its sell-by date). This is the 21st century. It isn't shameful for a woman to have a strong libido, and it isn't some requirement of manhood that a guy HAS to act like a horndog, especially if he isn't that way.

Free milk? Buy the cow? What is this, Green Acres?

It certainly can be that way, yes. I've learned over the years to just be very clear from the beginning about my position, as in "I will discuss this openly, including telling you what my personal preferences are, but understand that if I am going to sleep with you it will happen under 'X' circumstances and when *I* decide to do so." I've found that the majority of men actually appreciate that kind of honesty and forthrightness, because it removes the whole game-playing aspect of things.

It would not be out of character for me to say, "I have every intention of sleeping with you when I decide the circumstances are right. Understand that those circumstances include but are not limited to..." and then lay out my needs/requirements. If nothing else, it serves to weed out the riff-raff who can't handle having a woman implement her standards. The ones who are left are more likely to be worth taking to bed.