Man! Look around at the world that we have created by not following God.

I have to go but Im not familiar with the countless tales of virgin birth that predates Jesus. Please enlighten me.

I have to go but Im not familiar with the countless tales of virgin birth that predates Jesus. Please enlighten me.

Please point out the specific myths cristianity is copying, please dont utilize dogma or anything thats was changed to get converts, specifically during Roman tims. I am asking for myths that copy the generic version of Christianity, the virgin birth and creationism.

What I was saying before that wasnt clear was, just becasue one thing was written before something else was written doesnt mean the one that was written about first happened first.

http://www.pocm.info/getting_started_pocm.html

Hi Di...

Interesting information...as always...

If I had the time, I would go through this entire thread and nullify all of the false statements concerning me... Ah but what does it truly matter what another's perspective is of my intent? It is all causual...

Start where we can agree, I suppose is the best way to direct this topic... so I posed a question, which your post actually verified, to get somewhere without the unneccesary content of individual anthropomorphism...

Lets talk about 'God'... not religion...

Is God all powerful, all knowing, and all good?

I claim that the description of 'God', as claimed within the bible is inaccurate.

Art
This is amazing to me, the lengths we will go to reject God.

Hello
I don't see this as a rejection of God but rather a rejection of a biblical definition that does not seem to fit.

There are many traditions outside of Christianity which speak of God. If our relationship with God is indeed a personal one should our understanding not also be personal?

There seems to be this notion that if, for example, my definition of God does not fit the prescribed one allowed by the bible that my view is wrong. I would suggest rather than my perspective has broadened to encompass a more wholistic view based upon study and experience. It is what resonates and sits well within me ... just me. We all have our own path back to our source.

There is often an assumption made, and I see it here in relation to creativesoul and abra (I use them as examples as I know both men), that there is a desire to denounce God or that they fail to or are incapable of understanding Christianity and its basis. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I don't see why it has to be science or God. Religion and science both are trying to describe and understand the same thing...the nature of the universe. I suspect when you get beneath all the dogma that both views are not so far apart.

Creative
I believe that 'God' is everything... everything and nothing...

I absolutely agree.
We live in a world that seems pretty real. I trust that the table at which I eat dinner is solid enough to hold the plate. Yet, at a quantum level what is really there? Tiny particles and a whole lot of empty space - anything but solid. And at a deeper level there are even smaller particles with even more space... bits of which flit in and out of 'our' reality.
Everything and no-thing at the same time...depending upon my perspective at the time.

The God of my belief is in a state of constant creation.

It is not an ego in the sky....a separate 'thing' ...
[/quite]

See, you say you are not against God. But you call the God I worship an ego in the sky. This is so denigrating to God and self aggrandizing. Here is God's response:

Isa 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him? Isa 40:14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? Isa 40:15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing. Isa 40:16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering. Isa 40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity. Isa 40:18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

My first point is that God is not an ego. He is not bragging here. This is simply the understated truth. He is just telling you who He is. God is far greater and more powerful than this. The people then did not know about the far flung galaxies so far away that our modern Hubble can't see them. He could not talk to them about the power it takes to send galaxies spinning millions of miles per hour out into space. So, He used analogies they could understand.

Second, This God is not some sort of force like star wars. He is not in every rock, tree, and piece of the material world. He is spirit, not anything to do with matter. He is a separate powerful awesome being. He is NOT in the nations or the trees. He burns them. He destroys them if they become too self destructive or harmful to others.

By the belief you have created in your mind, you put yourself above this magnificent God. You make Him a part of the the nothing that is in the plate you eat from. You make Him a part of the world that you use. This is a belief that does not fit. By it, you create a painting, a home, or other project of your choosing. You can destroy it, but you think God has no such power.

Perhaps you don't see it yet, but God is not an ego in the sky. We are the egos run a muck!

{quote]
it is the source of everything which comes into physical reality. The source of all holds the potential of all things ... but it is undefined ... a no-thing ... until it is manifested into the physical world.

I mean when you are the only entity in existence how can relative value be established to measure anything of a relative nature(morality, ethics, good, bad)without a 'community' of some sort?

There is a community.

God is not the same person as Jesus. One is a Father, the other a Son. Both Divine, but both different. Thus Jesus would ask if there was any way to avoid the beating and crucifixion. His will was different than that of the Father, but He submitted to the Father's will.

In addition there are millions of angels in the heavens that God lives and works with.

I’m sorry Art, but this is total bull crap!

Most of the problems facing our world today were indeed created by people who supposedly have Christian values!!!

The Christians came to the Americas and murdered the pantheists who lived here calling them ‘savages’!

The Christians went to Africa and brought back “black men” that they enslaved and treated as sub-human!

Even today many commercial enterprises that pollute and rape mother earth are run by people who supposedly have “Christian values”.

Sure you can argue that all of these people and their actions are not supported by the religion, but if so then all you are doing is denouncing 99.9% of the Christians in the world!!!

If we had all lived our lives according the pantheistic views of Sitting Bull the world would be a beautiful place.

This CRAP that the world is screwed up because mankind didn’t live according to the laws of the Bible is just that, total CRAP!

There are many philosophies, and even atheists who have lived lives that would have produced a beautiful world had everyone lived like them.

Of Course this is all true. However, you really did miss my point. I was talking about the values and standards of the Bible, not the values and standard of men who only profess belief in the Bible. That was the point of my list of changes to show that people are not following the Bible. The middle ages, and all of its religious superstition did not come from the bible. It came from pagans who worshiped the mystery religion and who put Christ's name on it. You understand that the Saturnaila was named Christmas. Easter that still retains the name of the goddess of fertility over laid the passover. The bible teaching of Christ coming and setting up a kingdom for a thousand years was reinterpreted by the Roman Church and its Emperors so that the church was the kingdom, then they put out the people who held to the truth, and they killed others thinking they did God a service, exactly like the scriptures said they would .

Joh 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

What I am saying is that the God of the Bible and the values and standards that are His have not been lived. That is the point of this thread. Not that we should look to what people who call themselves Christian have done, but what Christ said we are to do. There is a vast difference.

To put it another way, if Lexus has made quality luxury cars for years, but suddenly there is a hostile take over by their competitors and they make a car that is of terrible quality, it does not mean that the original Lexus was inferior. But this is what you are doing. You are judging the God of the Bible by the acts of those who cooperated in a hostile take over of Christianity.



And well it should not. Pantheism puts man on the same level as beasts. In case you did not notice, we are superior. We are made in God's image and the animals in a lower image of angels. That is why angels are shown to have faces of an eagle, ox, lion, and have wings, and so on. For example Christ comes back on a white horse, and that horse is not a physical one. It is a spirit being.

Thus the Bible does not want us worshiping animals, like so many of the false religions do.

Further, you are again absolutely wrong on your point about God's teaching regarding animals. God said that even the animals are to have rest on the Sabbath. He said we are to break even God's rule to save their lives. He says that you cannot restrict the animal from eating when it is treading out the grain. God says you don't even eat a calf boild in it mother's milk.

Regarding the environment, God told the people to bury their excrement, not to leave it laying around. He knew about bacteria before we did.

He also warned people not to build crowded cities. He said they were not to build house to house. We should not live in apartments. Now science finds that this overcrowding causes us to be more violent.

God says when He comes back, He will punish those who destroy the earth. God told us to dress and keep the environment. He did not tell us to rape it.

God required that everyone who lost property due to bad financial decisions must have the property returned to them every fifty years. His economic system was designed so that no one single entity could take over everyone else like the huge corporations have done today.

His system was so fair, so just, and so perfect. Ours is the problem. and ours did not come from true Christians or from people following the Bible. It came from people who professed Christianity and did not live it.

So, I don't know how to take you. You put down the Bible, but you don't even know what it says. It is just all empty talk.



Again, you know better. You act as if we followed your laws everything would be fine. But, the truth is you don't know God's laws or why they exist.



Here you are again blasting what you don't know. Christianity taught people to be egotistical?

Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

Jam 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Jesus taught us to be humble. But human nature has made us egotistical. In fact it is not the teachings of Jesus that is egotistical. In an era when women were not allowed to talk to men or especially a Rabbi, Jesus talked with Gentile women. He listened to them, and in some cases, their argument caused Him to change His judgement.



But again, and again, and again, it is not Christianity that you see. It is a counterfeit you see. They worship the god of this world, and call him Christ.

I have said this so many times, and you just by pass it.

You are not seeing God's religion. You are seeing the devil at work.

art

feral votes yes to the notion of an omniGod...
ok... I want to get a concensus of all those who agree...
feral, I appreciate your particpation...
I do not feel anything being is being shoved... so... I just want to find a 'plane' to where the conversation can indeed begin on an agreement, if this is ok with everybody...
I claim that the description of 'God', as claimed within the bible is inaccurate.
To establish a starting point I have posed a question.
Is God omniscient(all-knowing), omnibenevolent(all-good), and omnipotent(all-powerful)?
We must find a reference to discuss the topic. We must define either 'God' or some character of 'God'... some attribute... any attribute...
While some claim to not define 'God' they describe what 'God' is and what 'God' is not. We could go on and on about this... I want to establish a reference point... something tangible to discuss... again...
Is God omniscient(all-knowing), omnibenevolent(all-good), and omnipotent(all-powerful)?

I have heard it said that God is moral and just, etc., etc.

How moral, just, good, etc. can an entity be all by itself?

I mean when you are the only entity in existence how can relative value be established to measure anything of a relative nature(morality, ethics, good, bad)without a 'community' of some sort?