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| Topic: Do Christians really believe.......? | |
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That Jesus is coming back? If so when and what exactly will happen then? Yes. When he arrives it will happen. 
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Jeannie, i thought about you for so long and sometimes i do feel like crying when i read your post. You read the bible and yet you don't believe. Why?
You've received too many answers to your questions and yet you don't believe. Jeannie why? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 09/20/13 05:02 PM
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Jeannie, i thought about you for so long and sometimes i do feel like crying when i read your post. You read the bible and yet you don't believe. Why? You've received too many answers to your questions and yet you don't believe. Jeannie why? I have been over all of that. You have not read my posts. Besides my question is... do Christians really believe it? Why should I believe it? There is no logical reason to believe it. All I see are contradictions, myths, stories, etc. I have many many reasons for not believing it. Illogical, unscientific, no proof, no evidence, makes no sense, too many contradictions, too many interpretations, too many different denominations with different beliefs, on and on... |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Fri 09/20/13 10:11 PM
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We all sin to some degree. Remember it's God that is perfect. We're just his creations that can go either one way or the other, in this spiritual battle of life. God is perfect you say? Then how on earth is it possible that he could create a creation capable of doing something it did not intend for them to be able to do, to the point he regrets ever creating them before the great flood? Would that not be a mistake? Would this not indicate a flaw in his creation if he made them this way? How does that really work? If you ask me it doesn't.......either God is perfect and so are we for our purpose here, flaws and all, or God screwed up. There is no middleground. Make a choice, is God perfect or isn't he? Kleisto, what are you referring to in the first couple of sentences? I am saying that it is impossible for a being who created us perfect to make us imperfect UNLESS that's what it intended us to be, it defies logic. To say it's true means God made a mistake and perfect beings are incapable of that. God had to know why he made us the way we did.......otherwise how can he be perfect and all knowing if we can do something it didn't expect or anticipate? It just does not make any sense whatsoever. If God didn't want us to be the way we are it would have made us different, but it didn't. Therefore we must be perfect for our purpose, because if we weren't, it'd mean God made a mistake which again is something perfection cannot do by definition. |
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No, the statement of free will after death isn't physically proven. That's where faith comes in. Everyone has the choice of believing or not. Most seem to be the type as "I won't believe it until I see it". I can't change them for being non-believers. It is not as simple to just 'decide' what you will believe. You must have a logical or experiential reason to believe something. (If someone told you that you would win the lottery if you truly believed it 100% could you will yourself to believe it 100%? Probably Not. If the Bible tells you that you can move a mountain if you had the faith and belief, could you muster enough faith and belief to actually move a mountain? I doubt it. I have faith in the law of cause and effect down to the quantum world. It is supported by science and by my own personal experience. That's why I have faith. Not just because of science, but because of my own logic and experience. You have to have good reason or at least rationalizations to have faith. Most true believers in God have had some sort of personal experience that was spiritual to them and through their own logic, they attribute the miracle they witnessed or experienced to God. I don't think reading the Bible alone, and deciding to believe in God or in the Bible will actually do the trick. Ok, now you are talking about animals. We are supposed to be separated from the animals. God made them, but not in his image. Just because they can go and try to screw everything in sight, doesn't permit us to. And I don't buy into this evolution garbage. Why are there still monkeys around? The human differs from an animal only because humans have a the capacity for a higher degree of awareness. Animals don't normally "screw everything in sight" and why would you give them such a bad rap? They basically follow their natural internal programming and instincts - unless something interferes with that. Humans also have this internal programming and instincts. But because of a human's capacity for more awareness and self awareness, they can think above their own programming. That is where free choice becomes more apparent. They are no longer a slave to their programming. We all know how the monetary system works, Jeanniebean. In the Bible, money for food, shelter and even some fun is allowed. The hoarding of money for selfish purposes is not. The only people that do that are the Elite corporations and yes... they are evil and greedy. Most of the common folk are just trying to survive. Humans being in connection with each other. In which ways do you mean? To me, it's irrelevant whether the book was written two thousand or twenty thousand years ago. The rules are still set rules and aren't difficult to understand. Who says the second testament had been changed so many times? What rules are you talking about? Set by whom? The Church? What Church? The Bible? What rules? Old or new testament? Do we still stone people? Not that I know of. The ten "commandments"? Those were rules for and about Joshua's people. (The alleged "chosen People") Apparently they don't apply to everyone. "Thou shalt not kill" only applied to those people. Then according to the Bible story, Joshua told his army to slaughter men women and children without mercy. That was okay because they were not one of the chosen people. So thou shalt not kill only apply to the chosen people. So, no, I don't think the ten "commandments" apply to everyone. I feel I had an awakening of sorts, and I feel faith has been helping me. Not everyone feels the same way, and would like to think they'd gotten through things themselves, without the help of God. And no evolutionary theory or whatever some scientist comes up with, will ever shake my faith in him. I'm just assuming you may have read the Bible, didn't have an open mind at all, thought it was some fairytale and passed it off as fiction. It took a lot of years with a lot of witnesses, input from scholars and authors. I don't see it, therefore it has to be fictitious nonsense, right? This what you think? I was kidding to a point about animals. I like animals, but I have seen some dogs and cats try to screw some inanimate things, like a ragdoll or table leg for instance.  Not saying animals don't have some form of intelligence. They just have a different form of intelligence, whereas humans were given human intelligence. Oh, I totally agree with you about the majority of the greedy hoarders are the ones who own the big corps. I know what they're all about. And I also agree with most regular ordinary people, just wanting to survive. I think it becomes a problem, or sin when some get that sense of entitlement. A trip somewhere for the family? That car or nice dress? No problem. When that sense of entitlement becomes for some envy, self pity and jealousy because Mr. Jones has a yacht, then I think that isn't what God would want us to do. |
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We all sin to some degree. Remember it's God that is perfect. We're just his creations that can go either one way or the other, in this spiritual battle of life. God is perfect you say? Then how on earth is it possible that he could create a creation capable of doing something it did not intend for them to be able to do, to the point he regrets ever creating them before the great flood? Would that not be a mistake? Would this not indicate a flaw in his creation if he made them this way? How does that really work? If you ask me it doesn't.......either God is perfect and so are we for our purpose here, flaws and all, or God screwed up. There is no middleground. Make a choice, is God perfect or isn't he? Kleisto, what are you referring to in the first couple of sentences? I am saying that it is impossible for a being who created us perfect to make us imperfect UNLESS that's what it intended us to be, it defies logic. To say it's true means God made a mistake and perfect beings are incapable of that. God had to know why he made us the way we did.......otherwise how can he be perfect and all knowing if we can do something it didn't expect or anticipate? It just does not make any sense whatsoever. If God didn't want us to be the way we are it would have made us different, but it didn't. Therefore we must be perfect for our purpose, because if we weren't, it'd mean God made a mistake which again is something perfection cannot do by definition. I don't think God had any intention of making us to be perfect beings. It starts with the story of Adam and Eve. First humans ever to be created by God. Satan is cast out of Heaven for his plot to overtake God. Satan them tempts Adam and Eve, and they give in. Today, whether you believe or you don't, we fight with the negative and positive forces. A spiritual battle if you will, with God on one side and satan on the other, vying for our souls. God for good, wants us all to be in Heaven with him. Satan is furious with God for casting him out into hell forever, and will try to entice any of God's creations "us" into sinning, so when we pass, we enter into his lair of torture and pain for eternity. You may know the story I've just posted? Not sure? May all be just fiction to you, and you just may believe in what modern science teaches you and that's it? Faith though is about keeping an open mind and doing all the right things. To love your neighbor as yourself. Never hate, be jealous, envious, hurtful or racist to anyone. Jesus only taught peace. |
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I'm just assuming you may have read the Bible, didn't have an open mind at all, thought it was some fairytale and passed it off as fiction. It took a lot of years with a lot of witnesses, input from scholars and authors. I don't see it, therefore it has to be fictitious nonsense, right? This what you think? I have a HUGE open mind. I consider ALL information, no matter how absurd it may seem. I also consider science, although I know that it too is extremely limited and flawed. Many of the so-called 'witnesses' in the Bible could also be fictional characters, so they aren't really witnesses. They are dead anyway so there are no "witnesses" unless they too can be verified to have been real historical characters. Not "fairytales" but myth and legend of which I'm sure there is some truth, but by no means would I take them as being history or truth. |
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I'm just assuming you may have read the Bible, didn't have an open mind at all, thought it was some fairytale and passed it off as fiction. It took a lot of years with a lot of witnesses, input from scholars and authors. I don't see it, therefore it has to be fictitious nonsense, right? This what you think? I have a HUGE open mind. I consider ALL information, no matter how absurd it may seem. I also consider science, although I know that it too is extremely limited and flawed. Many of the so-called 'witnesses' in the Bible could also be fictional characters, so they aren't really witnesses. They are dead anyway so there are no "witnesses" unless they too can be verified to have been real historical characters. Not "fairytales" but myth and legend of which I'm sure there is some truth, but by no means would I take them as being history or truth. I'm glad to see you have an open mind. Thing is, we can talk and debate over religion for years and we still wouldn't change our opinions. For me, it's just having the faith and belief in the Gospel. Faith has helped a lot of people. I also believe in God as our creator, Jesus our Lord and savior and the Holy Spirit. |
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We all sin to some degree. Remember it's God that is perfect. We're just his creations that can go either one way or the other, in this spiritual battle of life. God is perfect you say? Then how on earth is it possible that he could create a creation capable of doing something it did not intend for them to be able to do, to the point he regrets ever creating them before the great flood? Would that not be a mistake? Would this not indicate a flaw in his creation if he made them this way? How does that really work? If you ask me it doesn't.......either God is perfect and so are we for our purpose here, flaws and all, or God screwed up. There is no middleground. Make a choice, is God perfect or isn't he? Kleisto, what are you referring to in the first couple of sentences? I am saying that it is impossible for a being who created us perfect to make us imperfect UNLESS that's what it intended us to be, it defies logic. To say it's true means God made a mistake and perfect beings are incapable of that. God had to know why he made us the way we did.......otherwise how can he be perfect and all knowing if we can do something it didn't expect or anticipate? It just does not make any sense whatsoever. If God didn't want us to be the way we are it would have made us different, but it didn't. Therefore we must be perfect for our purpose, because if we weren't, it'd mean God made a mistake which again is something perfection cannot do by definition. I don't think God had any intention of making us to be perfect beings. It starts with the story of Adam and Eve. First humans ever to be created by God. Satan is cast out of Heaven for his plot to overtake God. Satan them tempts Adam and Eve, and they give in. Today, whether you believe or you don't, we fight with the negative and positive forces. A spiritual battle if you will, with God on one side and satan on the other, vying for our souls. God for good, wants us all to be in Heaven with him. Satan is furious with God for casting him out into hell forever, and will try to entice any of God's creations "us" into sinning, so when we pass, we enter into his lair of torture and pain for eternity. You may know the story I've just posted? Not sure? May all be just fiction to you, and you just may believe in what modern science teaches you and that's it? Faith though is about keeping an open mind and doing all the right things. To love your neighbor as yourself. Never hate, be jealous, envious, hurtful or racist to anyone. Jesus only taught peace. First of all that's a lie, Jesus himself even said that he comes not to bring peace but a sword in the Bible, and speaks of dividing families........you are being dishonest. If he was all about peace his words would reflect it and they do not. That's number one, number two, if God did not intend us to be perfect beings as you say, then what sense does it make to punish us eternally in the way that it does, and wipe out whole civilizations at times in addition to? You're gonna tell me God KNOWINGLY makes us imperfect and flawed, and then gets mad when we act exactly as it wanted us to be able to? Bullcrap. Again, either God made everything and everyone as it intended, or God screwed up, it cannot be both. Finally, any divine being that would let people burn eternally in hell knowing it could prevent it and wants all to be saved in the place, is not one worthy of any worship at all. Such is a being a monster, and as far from anything loving as one could get. Love does not let someone suffer just for the sake of suffering. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 09/21/13 09:55 AM
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I also have faith and belief in the creator. I just don't make the claim that I know and understand what the creator is. Religions wrongly believe and claim that they know and understand it. They don't.
It is the people who wrote the Bible that I have my doubts about. I think most of it is plagiarized myth and legend and a mix of several (or many) religious practices of primitive unscientific people. None of it really makes sense, most of it is either symbolic or impossible. There is no reason to take any of it literally. However the Bible does tell you how to use your mind and your belief to create your reality. Its all in there. The law of attraction and the secret of secrets. The hidden knowledge is hidden.... in the Bible. Few have found it. It is also in many other more modern books.... |
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I also have faith and belief in the creator. I just don't make the claim that I know and understand what the creator is. Religions wrongly believe and claim that they know and understand it. They don't. It is the people who wrote the Bible that I have my doubts about. I think most of it is plagiarized myth and legend and a mix of several (or many) religious practices of primitive unscientific people. None of it really makes sense, most of it is either symbolic or impossible. There is no reason to take any of it literally. However the Bible does tell you how to use your mind and your belief to create your reality. Its all in there. The law of attraction and the secret of secrets. The hidden knowledge is hidden.... in the Bible. Few have found it. It is also in many other more modern books.... 
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sat 09/21/13 01:21 PM
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I also have faith and belief in the creator. I just don't make the claim that I know and understand what the creator is. Religions wrongly believe and claim that they know and understand it. They don't. This is something gets me........religious people will always say we cannot understand the mind of God to defend their beliefs. Uhh......they do realize that applies to them too right? If we can't know, how the hell can they? What makes them so special? It's a double standard, if we can't know, they can't either. |
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time will tell
it is a relief,, if and when we leave people to their personal spiritual journey,, and give up trying to 'convince' anyone anything believe what we will,, the truth will end up being the truth whether its what we believed or not |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 09/21/13 03:02 PM
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time will tell it is a relief,, if and when we leave people to their personal spiritual journey,, and give up trying to 'convince' anyone anything believe what we will,, the truth will end up being the truth whether its what we believed or not So then you agree that you may be wrong? OR are you saying the above, while thinking smugly to yourself that you are right and everyone else is wrong?  |
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I honestly don't accept they believe jesus is coming back they just believe in trying to convince themselves while they are alive he is.
Christians have been doing this for over 2,000 years.Why stop a wishful thinking tradition? |
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I honestly don't accept they believe jesus is coming back they just believe in trying to convince themselves while they are alive he is. Christians have been doing this for over 2,000 years.Why stop a wishful thinking tradition? I agree. And I think the mistaken idea that Jesus is coming back was completely misinterpreted in the Bible. |
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I honestly don't accept they believe jesus is coming back they just believe in trying to convince themselves while they are alive he is. Christians have been doing this for over 2,000 years.Why stop a wishful thinking tradition? If you're looking for members, I'd like to sign up...
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 09/22/13 09:19 AM
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If a man leaves his wife and children, and he promises to come back, how long should the wife sit and wait for him? Forever?
Look how long it has been for Jesus (if you believe he meant he might be gone for generations.) There are some who say that the promise to return was one that had a time frame that indicated it would be within THAT GENERATION. "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place (Matthew 24:34)." |
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I'm just assuming you may have read the Bible, didn't have an open mind at all, thought it was some fairytale and passed it off as fiction. It took a lot of years with a lot of witnesses, input from scholars and authors. I don't see it, therefore it has to be fictitious nonsense, right? This what you think? I have a HUGE open mind. I consider ALL information, no matter how absurd it may seem. I also consider science, although I know that it too is extremely limited and flawed. Many of the so-called 'witnesses' in the Bible could also be fictional characters, so they aren't really witnesses. They are dead anyway so there are no "witnesses" unless they too can be verified to have been real historical characters. Not "fairytales" but myth and legend of which I'm sure there is some truth, but by no means would I take them as being history or truth. Shalom Fairytale JB I know u research a lot of things was wondering if you have ever seen this site http://www.burlingtonnews.net/tunnels.html some pretty interesting stuff.. I only found them researching the Tribe of Dan here which is very interesting and makes a lot of sense to me at least. http://www.burlingtonnews.net/dann.html Your thoughts about this or more info would be appreciated Thanks JB |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 09/22/13 10:06 PM
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I'm just assuming you may have read the Bible, didn't have an open mind at all, thought it was some fairytale and passed it off as fiction. It took a lot of years with a lot of witnesses, input from scholars and authors. I don't see it, therefore it has to be fictitious nonsense, right? This what you think? I have a HUGE open mind. I consider ALL information, no matter how absurd it may seem. I also consider science, although I know that it too is extremely limited and flawed. Many of the so-called 'witnesses' in the Bible could also be fictional characters, so they aren't really witnesses. They are dead anyway so there are no "witnesses" unless they too can be verified to have been real historical characters. Not "fairytales" but myth and legend of which I'm sure there is some truth, but by no means would I take them as being history or truth. Shalom Fairytale JB I know u research a lot of things was wondering if you have ever seen this site http://www.burlingtonnews.net/tunnels.html some pretty interesting stuff.. I only found them researching the Tribe of Dan here which is very interesting and makes a lot of sense to me at least. http://www.burlingtonnews.net/dann.html Your thoughts about this or more info would be appreciated Thanks JB I am familiar with the information and with Branton etc. although I do not know him or know where he gets his information or how much of a disinformation source he is. They have a lot of information. A lot of it rings true, but I have not personally verified any of it. Most of the underground cities are well protected from curious investigators usually either hidden, top secret or by government entities. Once you go into one, you probably don't ever come back out. I have a map of underground tunnels but I am pretty sure it is incomplete and out dated. This site itself is poorly thrown together and not very well organized. I think it is a hodge podge of collected information from several sources. |
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