If a man existed, a spiritual teacher who taught love and kindness or whatever the message of Christianity started out as, and if the stories and myths were written around this particular man are not true, then the character created that we know today as "Jesus" never actually existed, even if there was an actual person that these stories were based upon.

The message (of Christianity) when it began, was nothing like it is taught today. It said nothing about the son of God having to die for the sins of mankind. It did not claim that this teacher/guru was the "son of God." The followers of this original Christian path (who did not agree with the Church that Jesus was a God or the "Son of God") were persecuted and slaughtered.

The character of "Jesus" if he was not what the Church claims he is, and did not do what the Bible or Church claims he did, then he is a fictional character.

Kleisto, what are you referring to in the first couple of sentences?

We're not supposed to be perfect. Our souls were put in our
bodies when conceived. It says in the Bible that it's human
nature to sin. If we're to overcome our lust for greed, sex,
hatred, anger etc, we need the help of God to do it. We are
not capable of doing it on our own.

As we are of this moment, in flesh and blood, we have
two invisible forces at work (whether you believe it or not)
which is God and his angels(good) vs. Satan and his minions or
demons(bad) Now, when we do something bad, ultimately it is our
choice. However, satan and his minions can influence us into
thinking that something we may justify as alright, actually
isn't, and is a sin.

so,God and Satan are fighting,and we are the Battleground?
No thanks!
Let them fight it out and leave me in peace!

But how can you actually say that is not true? They never
did find Jesus' body, no. In scripture it says he rose up
to Heaven after rising from the dead, whether you believe
or you don't.

Yes, protestants were slaughtered by the Catholic church
during the medieval times. It was known as the catholic
inquisition. The Spanish inquisition was carried out
from Rome. Not knocking catholics as both my parent's
were baptized as catholic, but that is what happened.

Human nature to sin? B.S.!
What exactly is sin?


Humans don't have a lust for greed. They have a desire for life and happiness.

Sex is part of the physical reproduction system that the creator created on purpose. Go fourth and multiply!

Not capable of doing it on our own? (edited) In the sense that we are all connected and we are all one and yet we are individual thinking centers with free will.... it would depend on what you mean by "our own."

I believe that we are not just "flesh and blood" and that we are part of the universal consciousness that is God. We are all connected.

There is creation and destruction. This world is one of duality so that we may choose. We must be free to choose or we will not grow spiritually and we will never be worthy to walk among the creators. We are given a creative spark and the freedom to choose. If this were not so, we would be like robots. We would not be free.

I can say that it is NOT TRUE because no story told is ever "true" and is always told with spin and agenda and artistic licence. I can say that it is not true because it defies science and logic. I can say that it is not true because scholars cannot agree or prove or provide enough evidence to convince me it is true. I can say it is not true because it does not make logical sense. I can say it is not true because there are 17 other similar myths about so-call saviors of mankind who were born of virgins and died for our sins or some similar story.

I can say it is "not true" because there is no valid evidence and in fact, there is a lot of evidence to the contrary.

Jeanniebean, I think you're taking what I said out of context. Sex
is just fine, between a married man and woman. Pre-marital sex is not, or the sex between a married woman/man and someone else, whether they are married or not.

Some people really do have a lust for greed and hoarding money. Not everyone. The ones who aren't bound by miserly riches are safe.

Not really. Free will is the freedom to go in which direction
we choose. If we give into temptation and sin, we are not
eliminated on the spot, and sent to hell. Of course that
free will ends when we die.

In the Bible there are set rules. Within the parameters we
have freedom to marry, have sex and enjoy life. It's not
like the Bible states we have absolutely no freedom at all.

Now you are not talking about nature but about the moral of mankind. Animals don't "get married." Yet some mate for life, some don't. Marriage is a constraint of society. Nothing more.



A lust for money is born out of the lust for life or the fear of not having what is needed to sustain life and happiness.




To state that free will ends when we die is an assumption, not proven.

Free will depends on a persons awareness and it is the freedom to place our attention and thoughts on whatever we chose. One can only do that when one is aware enough to do so, and smart enough not to be distracted.




I don't live "in the Bible." I live, and most people live, in real life. As humankind becomes more aware of their connection to each other and to the universal creator, they use their awareness to guide them, not some 2000 year old book that has been rewritten too many times.

Out of curiosity, where in the Bible does it state that premarital sex is a sin?

No, the statement of free will after death isn't physically
proven. That's where faith comes in. Everyone has the choice
of believing or not. Most seem to be the type as "I won't believe
it until I see it". I can't change them for being non-believers.

Ok, now you are talking about animals. We are supposed to be
separated from the animals. God made them, but not in his image.
Just because they can go and try to screw everything in sight,
doesn't permit us to. And I don't buy into this evolution
garbage. Why are there still monkeys around?

We all know how the monetary system works, Jeanniebean. In
the Bible, money for food, shelter and even some fun is allowed.
The hoarding of money for selfish purposes is not.

Humans being in connection with each other. In which ways
do you mean? To me, it's irrelevant whether the book was
written two thousand or twenty thousand years ago. The
rules are still set rules and aren't difficult to understand.
Who says the second testament had been changed so many times?

I don't study the bible anymore because I am satisfied with my conclusion(s)...It's an amazing piece of literature that will influence, entertain, and baffle man until the end of time...What I do agree with is limited to these few "historicities"....Jesus did indeed exist, but in what capacity is not and never will be provable...I agree he was a Galilean Jew who died between 30 to 36 AD, he lived in Galilee and Judea, he spoke Aramaic, and he was crucified by order of Pontius Pilate....The rest of it is based on folklore and theological "views"...I use the bible as I would any other good reference book...In fact, using it that way and rubbing elbows with "christians" is what finally convinced me that Jesus was just a great con man and like so many other great con men, it ended up costing him his life...Spirituality is not developed through religious beliefs, it is developed by living responsibly....

I'm sorry to hear you're faith was shaken, due to rubbing
elbows with Christians. Were they hypocrites? Stuffy? What
was it that turned you off them, and the validity of Jesus
himself?

Oh if only, no I'm afraid it was much worse than that Kin....Certainly too racy for a public forum ...Don't be sorry, I'm fine...I didn't post here to be saved...Faith was not shaken, conclusions were made.... :)

Hebrews 13:4 ESV

Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

1 Corinthians 7:2 ESV

But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 ESV

To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

This from http://www.openbible.info/topics/

Very informative.

Chang their mindset during the tribulation? It'll be very late because no one can stand the tribulation. By the time the antichrist will remove one of your eye or cut one side of your ear and give to you to chew, then you'll know the tribulation is not a fun moment.

It is not as simple to just 'decide' what you will believe. You must have a logical or experiential reason to believe something. (If someone told you that you would win the lottery if you truly believed it 100% could you will yourself to believe it 100%? Probably Not.

If the Bible tells you that you can move a mountain if you had the faith and belief, could you muster enough faith and belief to actually move a mountain? I doubt it.

I have faith in the law of cause and effect down to the quantum world. It is supported by science and by my own personal experience. That's why I have faith. Not just because of science, but because of my own logic and experience.

You have to have good reason or at least rationalizations to have faith. Most true believers in God have had some sort of personal experience that was spiritual to them and through their own logic, they attribute the miracle they witnessed or experienced to God.

I don't think reading the Bible alone, and deciding to believe in God or in the Bible will actually do the trick.




The human differs from an animal only because humans have a the capacity for a higher degree of awareness. Animals don't normally "screw everything in sight" and why would you give them such a bad rap? They basically follow their natural internal programming and instincts - unless something interferes with that.

Humans also have this internal programming and instincts. But because of a human's capacity for more awareness and self awareness, they can think above their own programming. That is where free choice becomes more apparent. They are no longer a slave to their programming.



The only people that do that are the Elite corporations and yes... they are evil and greedy. Most of the common folk are just trying to survive.



What rules are you talking about? Set by whom? The Church? What Church? The Bible? What rules? Old or new testament? Do we still stone people? Not that I know of.

The ten "commandments"?

Those were rules for and about Joshua's people. (The alleged "chosen People") Apparently they don't apply to everyone. "Thou shalt not kill" only applied to those people. Then according to the Bible story, Joshua told his army to slaughter men women and children without mercy. That was okay because they were not one of the chosen people. So thou shalt not kill only apply to the chosen people.

So, no, I don't think the ten "commandments" apply to everyone.

Chang their mindset during the tribulation? It'll be very late because no one can stand the tribulation. By the time the antichrist will remove one of your eye or cut one side of your ear and give to you to chew, then you'll know the tribulation is not a fun moment.

Chang their mindset during the tribulation? It'll be very late because no one can stand the tribulation. By the time the antichrist will remove one of your eye or cut one side of your ear and give to you to chew, then you'll know the tribulation is not a fun moment.

"To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."


That is the only one giving advice about being single or getting married, but it sounds like a suggestion to me.

None of these passages say that premarital sex is a sin.

My question is DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE?

OF SO, why?