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| Topic: War on Men | |
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They want marriage, but don't want the woman's role in a marriage they want both roles man and woman, and that does not work for everyone. It is no longer solely the woman's role to take care of the house and children. Just as it's no longer solely the man's role to work for a living. I get that you were raised differently, but you might want to update your views a bit if possible. Though, I'm sure there are women who don't want to work and want the man to be the sole provider. I hope you can find them. |
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Some men have done well with the role change that has happened, some not, but being angry about the change isn't going to do them any good.
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Some men have done well with the role change that has happened, some not, but being angry about the change isn't going to do them any good. Seriously. Getting angry and saying there's a war on men because women are more independent than they have been in the past and actually want to work for a living? Not a good thing. |
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Exactly right, women work for the same reasons men do. If women choose career over marriage and family they have that choice, their decision, but if they choose marriage they should accept the role of wife and future mother, and put that foremost, it is women who bear the children and should provide the nurture. There are times when a woman must work out of necessity, not choice, for reasons you have given, but this should not be something she chooses to do above looking after the family. I in no way infer that a woman's role is less important than that of a man's in marriage, in any team we all have different parts to play, this is what makes up family life. Your comment regarding what men want is what works best for them is nonsense, women bear children and must nurture them that is natures role not a man's decision. I am sorry if I do not agree with those who choose marriage and their own careers, because the task and pride of bringing up a family isn't enough for them, but as I said I am old fashioned. This is a very old fashioned way of life. It is no longer only the husband's job to go to work and the woman's job to stay home. In many families, both parents work and both parents take care of the house and children. That's how I grew up as did many of my friends. I would never marry a man who didn't want to have anything to do with raising children if we were to have them. Nor would I marry someone who expected me to give up my job once we got married. We are not in the 50s anymore. note the word 'fashion' in old fashioned! 'what goes back, comes round' ! Women have absolute right to work! But most of them would like to live as queens and not kings! |
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Edited by
Leigh2154
on
Mon 11/26/12 12:21 PM
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Am I the only one who remembers when men bit©hed constantly at women to GET A JOB!....Seems to me men always gotta have something to bit©h about...If that expression sounds familiar, it's because I borrowed it from the men...
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Edited by
Zero_Effected
on
Mon 11/26/12 12:31 PM
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Here is an excerpt from an article titled "The war on men" written by author Suzanne Venker. Please note that the author is a woman. To say gender relations have changed dramatically is an understatement. Ever since the sexual revolution, there has been a profound overhaul in the way men and women interact. Men haven’t changed much – they had no revolution that demanded it – but women have changed dramatically.
In a nutshell, women are angry. They’re also defensive, though often unknowingly. That’s because they've been raised to think of men as the enemy. Armed with this new attitude, women pushed men off their pedestal (women had their own pedestal, but feminists convinced them otherwise) and climbed up to take what they were taught to believe was rightfully theirs. Now the men have nowhere to go. It is precisely this dynamic – women good/men bad – that has destroyed the relationship between the sexes. Yet somehow, men are still to blame when love goes awry. Heck, men have been to blame since feminists first took to the streets in the 1970s. But what if the dearth of good men, and ongoing battle of the sexes, is – hold on to your seats – women’s fault? You’ll never hear that in the media. All the articles and books (and television programs, for that matter) put women front and center, while men and children sit in the back seat. But after decades of browbeating the American male, men are tired. Tired of being told there’s something fundamentally wrong with them. Tired of being told that if women aren't happy, it’s men’s fault. I have read enough posts on this website to believe what Suzanne Venker says. What say you? if this is true and women really hate & blame men for EVERYthing that goes wrong.. then wouldn't this then be true.. "all women are lesbians" ?? 
personally though.. I don't blame MEN for my shortcomings in ANYthing I do.. I take responsibility for my own actions.. my ex was an abusive/controlling azz.. but that doesn't mean ALL men are bad because of one rotten apple, no.. I DID have to take full responsibility for myself and 2 children for 17 years BUT I found a way to work from home full time, supporting us, while STILL being a full time mom AND dad.. I don't blame my EX for our situation.. there was a short time admittedly where I DID out of anger.. but after taking a deep breath I had realized my answer was really NO.. I was the one that made a bad choice in partners and have accepted my part.. I have to say though, after 38 years of busting my hump.. I wouldn't MIND giving up some of the work for a guy.. but having a best friend and life partner doesn't have to mean I don't like having my own $$ to spend.. 
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In her commentary, Suzanne Venker says the following:
I’ve accidentally stumbled upon a subculture of men who’ve told me, in no uncertain terms, that they’re never getting married. When I ask them why, the answer is always the same.
Women aren’t women anymore. So, the complaint about American women isn't coming from the general American male population. What that subculture of men told Venker could be just a minority opinion. |
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Anger generally stems from two things: unmet and unrealistic expectations and lack of power over one's life. Do I feel many women have unrealistic expectations of men? Have you read some of these profiles? Do I think that women lack power over their lives- I know there are such things as glass ceilings, unequal pay, etc.
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Edited by
Ruth34611
on
Mon 11/26/12 01:11 PM
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Am I the only one who remembers when men bit©hed constantly at women to GET A JOB!....Seems to me men always gotta have something to bit©h about...If that expression sounds familiar, it's because I borrowed it from the men...
No, you're not the only one. I left the workforce in 2003 when I had my oldest daughter. i stayed home for four years raising and homeschooling our 4 children. Once my daughters were preschool an kindergarten ages my husband told me he wanted me to go back to work (he wanted to buy a half a million dollar home). When I didn't find a job fast enough (in his mind) he told me I was taking advantage of the situation and "his" income. I found a good job in 2007 (same one I have now). Shortly after re-entering the work force I realized I no longer had to put up with his monogamy problem and I left him. So, yes, I remember. |
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They want marriage, but don't want the woman's role in a marriage they want both roles man and woman, and that does not work for everyone. It is no longer solely the woman's role to take care of the house and children. Just as it's no longer solely the man's role to work for a living. I get that you were raised differently, but you might want to update your views a bit if possible. Though, I'm sure there are women who don't want to work and want the man to be the sole provider. I hope you can find them. It never was the sole role for a wife to look after house and children, the husband played his part but to a much lesser extent. I understand your view that wives have the right to work as much when married as they did when single, and who cares what the husband thinks or wants, and the kids , they all need to update their views because mother is Mrs 21st century. |
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Edited by
Dodo_David
on
Mon 11/26/12 01:27 PM
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Folks, the gist of Venker's commentary is that something being done by American women is pushing some American men away from marriage, according to those men.
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They want marriage, but don't want the woman's role in a marriage they want both roles man and woman, and that does not work for everyone. It is no longer solely the woman's role to take care of the house and children. Just as it's no longer solely the man's role to work for a living. I get that you were raised differently, but you might want to update your views a bit if possible. Though, I'm sure there are women who don't want to work and want the man to be the sole provider. I hope you can find them. It never was the sole role for a wife to look after house and children, the husband played his part but to a much lesser extent. I understand your view that wives have the right to work as much when married as they did when single, and who cares what the husband thinks or wants, and the kids , they all need to update their views because mother is Mrs 21st century. It's not a choice for most women you know...economics does play a big part in this equation. Gone are the days when a husband could provide comfortably for his family, and it has nothing to do with feminisim, and everything to do with economics. So, if some men are looking to lay blame for their lack of 'feeling less like a man'....take a good long look at the economics of todays environment and the pressure points that come with it. As far as i can see....women are just getting on with what needs to be done to survive. |
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Folks, the gist of Venker's commentary is that something being done by American women is pushing some American men away from marriage, according to those men. Very good point, thank you, Dodo. |
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Ah, well, condescending terms like "chick" and "girl" for adult women do tend to irritate, I'll grant you. Everybody likes to be talked to with respect. Do you have a link to the BLS statistic proving that women don't work as hard as men? And if you really mean that they don't work as many hours, and then you say it's because of child care responsibilities . . . you wouldn't want to walk that judgment back a little as maybe a tad offensive? But, these aren't condescending terms. A chick is simply an attractive woman and a girl is a fun woman. It's defensive women that have tried to change the meaning of these words. Men aren't offended when we're referred to as "the boys" or as a "hunk" or whatever word women are using to describe us. Sorry, I simply don't have time to pour through the BLS for just the right topic. I provided a NY Times link. They are a well respected news paper. |
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Edited by
Leigh2154
on
Mon 11/26/12 01:56 PM
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Am I the only one who remembers when men bit©hed constantly at women to GET A JOB!....Seems to me men always gotta have something to bit©h about...If that expression sounds familiar, it's because I borrowed it from the men...
No, you're not the only one. I left the workforce in 2003 when I had my oldest daughter. i stayed home for four years raising and homeschooling our 4 children. Once my daughters were preschool an kindergarten ages my husband told me he wanted me to go back to work (he wanted to buy a half a million dollar home). When I didn't find a job fast enough (in his mind) he told me I was taking advantage of the situation and "his" income. I found a good job in 2007 (same one I have now). Shortly after re-entering the work force I realized I no longer had to put up with his monogamy problem and I left him. So, yes, I remember. Thank you for saying so Ruth....I could tell my story, but what I'm hearing from a lot of the men here has convinced me it would be a total waste of time...I can understand men feeling confused and scared as women become more and more independent....What I don't get is their insistence on blaming EVERYTHING on the women....For years men took advantage of the control "their" income allowed them...I don't have to list the ways, everyone knows ...Now, the more monetary independence women gain, the more control men forfeit ..It is this loss of control that throws them off balance ...Feminism is here to stay, the harder men resist, the harder women will push back... |
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Here is an excerpt from Venker's commentary:
All the articles and books (and television programs, for that matter) put women front and center, while men and children sit in the back seat.
Is there any evidence that women in the USA are being placed front and center, while men and children sit in the back seat? Well, there could be. (Yes, I'm going to stir up a nest of bees. Oh well.) Through advertising, people in the USA are constantly asked to join the race for the cure for breast cancer. According to current statistics provided by the American Cancer Society, breast cancer is currently the #2 killer of women in the USA. Why isn't there a race for the cure for the #1 killer of women in the USA? According to the American Cancer Society, during the year 2012, an estimated 31,000 more women in the USA will die from the #1 killer than from breast cancer. So, why (in the U.S. media) does breast cancer have priority over the #1 killer of women? Take a look at those U.S. cancer statistics, and see if you notice anything particular about breast cancer and about the #1 killer of women. |
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Women angry and defensive? You bet you're sweet pa-tootie they are. I can't count the number of times a woman has gotten defensive because I used the word "girls" or "chicks" instead of "women." But, they don't start out that way. Young women are a lot more light hearted. IMHO many women reach a point around their late 30s when they realize the men are being paid a higher wage for doing the "same job" they are. However, according to the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics, women simply don't work as hard as men do at their jobs. Women take off from work more often and work fewer hours of overtime. This is largely due to dealing with their children. They go on to say that women that remain childless actually have higher incomes than their male counterparts in many industries. Or they simply choose power paying jobs than men. But, women would rather blame men than themselves or their own children for holding them down. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/business/economy/motherhood-still-a-cause-of-pay-inequality.html?_r=0 It's this bitterness that stops me from trying to date women in my age group. You can say this but my opinion/guess is you can't get a woman your age to buy your theroys or behavior. You can get a younger woman with Daddy issues or desire to experiment to bed you short term as a novelty to probably piss some one else off or a party for the night but soon about all that you have to look forward too are the pro's. If you aren't there already. Protest if you like but most are laughing at you. This is a personal attack and has nothing to do with the topic. But, since you brought it up, why would I want to be with an obese, middle aged, used up, nagging old woman when I can have a thin, attractive 20 something with high firm breasts that'll do (not just willingly, but enthusiastically) most anything I desire sexually? I don't care how many women are laughing at me because I'm too busy making some horny, young nymphet moan and scream. And so what if it doesn't last? It's not as if these young ladies are an endangered species. Every year more turn 18 and become available. |
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I remember when the radical bra-burners hit the streets.
Most were lesbians and wanted to emasculate men. They were the first to encourage women to get out into the workforce and become independent. That started a trend that has virtually wiped out wholesome family values. Women raising male children make for a lot of soft men. Not all wind up soft. A lot of them are grown, angry and confused adult children. Never having had wholesome men to emulate, many haven't a clue as to how to act like a man and they will allow women to steer them. Some will be steered. Others will rebel and jump ship. Irresponsible men are to blame as well. Yep. The bra-burners helped screw up wholesome family values. This statement of mine is just a simple example. The whole situation is far more complex than I have time or patience for. Independence isn't the answer to save families that would save future men. The key to saving them is interdependence. |
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Ah ha!
Over on the thread titled "Why... Oh Why" ( http://mingle2.com/topic/show/340961 ), a woman wrote, "Oh and a smart man is an epic oxymoron if there ever was one." Now that is a display of a negative attitude toward men. |
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Ah ha! Over on the thread titled "Why... Oh Why" ( http://mingle2.com/topic/show/340961 ), a woman wrote, "Oh and a smart man is an epic oxymoron if there ever was one." Now that is a display of a negative attitude toward men. You're just trying to distract us so you can pull our ponytails! |
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