Who was more manly? Maude? or Archie?

I surrender!

Now let's get to work and retire earlier shall we?

But you still think there's a war on men, even though it's just a small amount of women acting a way you don't like?

The title of this thread comes from the title of that commentary written by Suzanne Venker. That's the only reason that I used that title for this thread.

Anyway, is there something wrong with me speaking out against anti-male sexual prejudice whenever I see it expressed in one of the forums?

Ah, so you don't think there's an actual war on men? You just used the title to get attention in the thread?

There's nothing wrong with speaking out against sexual prejudice, whether it's toward men or women. I was just trying to figure out what you actually throught, rather than just using words from the author.

I wanted this thread to be primarily a discussion about Venker's commentary. So, I used the title of the commentary as the title of this thread.

OK, here is what I think:

It is wrong for anti-male sexual prejudice to be given a pass by women if they aren't going to give anti-female sexual prejudice a pass, too.
Promoting gender equality means speaking against all sexual prejudice, not just the kind that negatively affects one's particular gender.

Talk about the battle of the sexes...and it's so unnecessary..Women have a right to equality...Men have an "earned" right to feel uncomfortable about relinquishing control (especially outside the home) ...Women need to stop trying to imitate men and learn how to compete successfully... Men need to learn to support our liberation and appreciate our input ... Trying to imitate men is the biggest mistake women make because the value we bring to the table lies in our femininity!.....When men and women work together, everyone wins...

Ah, ok. Well, speak out on all sexual prejudice, then! Many people probably agree. And good for you for finally saying what you were thinking.

How are women imitating men? What's the difference between what they're doing now and competing successfully?

Dress, talk, attitude...whatever it took and takes to compete in the workplace and in politics...Women imitating men is way more pronounced that men imitating women and it's because men liked things just the way they were (who wouldn't) and women didn't...This phenomenon is probably more evident to me than it is to you because I am 30 years older...It's also the primary reason older men have the most difficulty adjusting to the changes women demand, Ruth was right when she pointed this out earlier...I am not about to give you specifics, but you can learn about them on your own if you are interested...Women like me who were thrust into the workforce with virtually no marketable skills and limited education just to keep food on the table (feed our babies) too often had no choice but to imitate men...

I guess without specifics, it's not going to make much sense to me. Sure, there are some jobs that require men and women to dress the same, but I don't think that's women imitating men. And I don't know any women who talk like men. As for attitudes, I guess it would depend on each person. Could men and women have the same attitudes toward things? Sure. Does that mean one is imitating the other? Not necessarily.

Very well put.

I saw a lot of the women imitating men in my law enforcement career.

In the 90's the Federal government looked wry closely at LAPD and put them under what was called a "consent decree" due to alleged abuses by the department as a whole. One interesting thing that came out of all their studies was something I had understood to be true all along. The best law enforcement team was always a male and female working as partners. Male/female teams had less uses of force while still maintaining a high number of arrests. Women tend to be better at talking people to jail (I know I was) than men who resorted to physical violence sooner. But, in my experience (this was not mentioned in the study-it's my observation) male cops are better at finding crimes that were occurring in the area.

My point is that Leigh is right. Men and women need to work together on an equal basis without trying to imitate each other. Complement each other rather than compete against each other.

Ain't love special?

But what I am saying to you is I do know these things and I know them first hand...It's generational Sing ...You had to BE there...I'm not talking about women wearing pants cause their job required it, I'm talking about women wearing pants to compete with men wearing pants because the men had the jobs women wanted and needed!..As for talking like men, women, myself included, still do it!... Attitude imitation means expressing apathy while feeling empathy, acting strong while feeling weak....Having the opposite or a different attitude, but expressing the same attitude because you had to if you wanted to keep your job...Labor laws were not written to kill boredom SingMe...

Ok, that makes a bit more sense. Like I said, being a bit more specific helps!

And yes, I agree that working together rather than against each other is a good idea.

Men and women are always going to compete for jobs. People compete for jobs.

I'm not sure how one talks like a man, though. Or a woman, for that matter. Examples would help!

You said it so well...Compliment rather than compete..

I made a career out of 'working' with men, not imitating them...i happen to like being feminine. But...i did have to work with them to gain their confidence in me and their respect to actually listen to the advice i gave to them. At times i had to be firm and speak to them in the only way they were able to absorb the information in a sometimes pressured environment with blood p!ssing out everywhere, or limbs broken or dislocated...because in those circumstances, it didn't bode well to be a girly girl.