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| Topic: Double Standard? Race Card? | |
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I dont wish to see a homogenized world at all.
I just wish to see that differences in those things that we have no conscious decision in,, like what income status we are born into or what gender our biology dictates or what ancestral history (race) we are born into are seen as not better or worse but merely different, and that we can appreciate the wonderful things in say, a males testesteronal tendencies towards aggression without them having to be seen as neanderthals or womens estrognic tendencies towards nurturing without them having to be seen as weak I believe its better that we EMBRACE those things that make us different from each other but dont DEFINE us,,,, |
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A person is accused of playing the race card when that person does not provide specific evidence of racism or when that person relies on an ad hoc hypothesis to support that person's claim of racism.
For example, the claim that a person is guilty of subconscious racism is a claim that is not based on specific evidence. Instead, it is based on speculation on the part of the person making the claim. I do not know how it is in other areas of the world, but in the USA a party is considered innocent of a charge until proven guilty. Whenever people are said to be guilty without evidence of guilt being presented, then it is understandable if those people react negatively to the unproven charge. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 07/08/12 08:59 PM
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A person is accused of playing the race card when that person does not provide specific evidence of racism or when that person relies on an ad hoc hypothesis to support that person's claim of racism. For example, the claim that a person is guilty of subconscious racism is a claim that is not based on specific evidence. Instead, it is based on speculation on the part of the person making the claim. I do not know how it is in other areas of the world, but in the USA a party is considered innocent of a charge until proven guilty. Whenever people are said to be guilty without evidence of guilt being presented, then it is understandable if those people react negatively to the unproven charge. of course, I am no doctor, so I cannot say that someone with a runny nose has a cold or allergies FOR CERTAIN, but from reading a little on the symptoms and having had them myself , I can reasonably conclude the high possibility they may suffer from a cold or allergies the same is true of subconcious racism,, I cant say for SURE whether a person exhibiting certain 'symptoms' (in the way they apply logic in a situation with one race of person compared to how they apply it to the same situation with another race of person without any other obvious difference available to explain the incosistent logic) is suffering from a form of subconscious racism,,, but having read studies on how subtle and subconscious racism works, I can reasonably conclude the high possibility that they may suffer from a less 'blatant' form of racist thinking,,,,,,,, |
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it's not a question of color...it's a question of class...
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I dont wish to see a homogenized world at all. Well of course we can't homogenize the world but we can reduce the negative effects of human bias, in the U.S. We could instill a homogenous set of human values though the educational curriculum of a public school system that demonstrates the values in action. The key to reinforcing these human values is to teach critical thinking skills with an emphasis on strong communication skills and an appreciate for aesthetics. I just wish to see that differences in those things that we have no conscious decision in,, like what income status we are born into or what gender our biology dictates or what ancestral history (race) we are born into are seen as not better or worse but merely different, As far as wishes go, those are good ideals, but what human behavior or attitude do we specifically need to target for change and what do you think individuals and governments can do to implement those changes? and that we can appreciate the wonderful things in say, a males testesteronal tendencies towards aggression without them having to be seen as neanderthals or womens estrognic tendencies towards nurturing without them having to be seen as weak Testosterone levels often correlate with aggressive or competitive behavior, but experiments that present strong cause and effect between testosterone and aggression are severely lacking. All of the following have been correlated to aggression in both males and females: interactions between various hormones and parts of the brain, certain hormone receptors, personality tendencies, life experiences, and institutionalized gender bias. Estrogen adds about as much to nurturing as testosterone adds to aggression and having more, or less, of either hormone does not preclude one’s ability to nurture or to be aggressive. I was just making the point to show how deeply ingrained gender bias really is. Even when speaking and thinking about gender bias, it’s still possible to be under its influence and uphold the false conceptions that have been so many generations in the making. I believe its better that we EMBRACE those things that make us different from each other but dont DEFINE us,,,, To envision an ideal world requires some kind of understanding of what would need to be changed in order to achieve the ideal goal. Which leads me back to the earlier questions; what human behaviors or attitudes do we specifically need to target for change and what suggestions can be made to bring about the needed change? |
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it's not a question of color...it's a question of class... What is it about class that causes racism and other bias to continue? |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 07/08/12 10:23 PM
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I dont wish to see a homogenized world at all. Well of course we can't homogenize the world but we can reduce the negative effects of human bias, in the U.S. We could instill a homogenous set of human values though the educational curriculum of a public school system that demonstrates the values in action. The key to reinforcing these human values is to teach critical thinking skills with an emphasis on strong communication skills and an appreciate for aesthetics. I just wish to see that differences in those things that we have no conscious decision in,, like what income status we are born into or what gender our biology dictates or what ancestral history (race) we are born into are seen as not better or worse but merely different, As far as wishes go, those are good ideals, but what human behavior or attitude do we specifically need to target for change and what do you think individuals and governments can do to implement those changes? and that we can appreciate the wonderful things in say, a males testesteronal tendencies towards aggression without them having to be seen as neanderthals or womens estrognic tendencies towards nurturing without them having to be seen as weak Testosterone levels often correlate with aggressive or competitive behavior, but experiments that present strong cause and effect between testosterone and aggression are severely lacking. All of the following have been correlated to aggression in both males and females: interactions between various hormones and parts of the brain, certain hormone receptors, personality tendencies, life experiences, and institutionalized gender bias. Estrogen adds about as much to nurturing as testosterone adds to aggression and having more, or less, of either hormone does not preclude one’s ability to nurture or to be aggressive. I was just making the point to show how deeply ingrained gender bias really is. Even when speaking and thinking about gender bias, it’s still possible to be under its influence and uphold the false conceptions that have been so many generations in the making. I believe its better that we EMBRACE those things that make us different from each other but dont DEFINE us,,,, To envision an ideal world requires some kind of understanding of what would need to be changed in order to achieve the ideal goal. Which leads me back to the earlier questions; what human behaviors or attitudes do we specifically need to target for change and what suggestions can be made to bring about the needed change? I remember in school being required to take a 'social studies' course. I also remember being taught about reading 'comprehension'. I think the changes begin with education. As simple as that sounds. I think encouraging children to use logic as opposed to simply remembering dates and formulas and quotes,, would be a great start. Also civics is missing to teach us all the basic 'american' responsibility of CONTRIBUTING to the community, not for a paycheck, but for the sake of the community. That may help people see a value in others that isnt based upon a dollar sign. Maybe the future generations, enhanced with logic and a sense of responsibility to community, could find much better ways of implementing the types of policies and laws that could truly be 'just' for all. Understanding the past is as important as just memorizing it, so that we dont keep making the same errors over and over and putting bandaids on wounds that need stitches. |
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Stolen and edited.
I just agree with the author. 'Louis Farrakhan,aka (Eugene) and his black nationalist nation of islam movement equate to the black KKK. As divisive and evil as the original KKK was/is, this group and others like them such as the new Black Panthers are no better. When you take the white racists like David Duke and Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd, and the black racists like Farrakhan, Jessie Jackson, Black Panthers and Al Sharpton out of the picture, most blacks and whites get along just fine. When we treat each other with respect and like we would want to be treated ourselves, it’s amazing how well we can get along despite our differing backgrounds. It’s largely because of idiots like these race-baiters on both sides of the color divide that the scab of race relations keeps getting picked. There is indeed racism in America. But there wouldn’t be nearly as much of it if these clowns would quit agitating people and trying to make every little thing into an issue about race. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Mon 07/09/12 08:37 AM
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'getting along' is not a measure of successfulness in my book.
I would gather japanese interns 'got along' with their captors and slaves 'got along' with their masters getting along does little to further us when there are social discrepancies and injustices present,, it only keeps us stagnated with the status quo I see NOI as nothing like KKK. I see nowhere in the literature any calls to harm non black or calls to hunt down or hang them. KKK arose out of a disgruntled group of men living where they were the majority and held the power but were afraid of losing ANY of that majority of power. NOI arose out of the things done to minorities to KEEP Them from gaining any power. A slight difference. |
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Edited by
willing2
on
Mon 07/09/12 08:52 AM
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More on Eugene and his agitating.
'CHICAGO — Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan,aka (Eugene), boasting his divine stature, (“divine” stature? Are you kidding me? How do you figure?) on Sunday predicted trouble ahead for President Barack Obama and urged him to do more to improve the lives of blacks and the downtrodden. The 76-year-old leader said the “white right” was conspiring to make Obama a one-term president, and pointed to his stalled efforts to introduce health care legislation as proof. He said those opponents and lobbyists were trapping him into a future war with Iran that could lead to mass destruction. “The word ‘prophet’ is too cheap a word. I am a light in the midst of darkness,” Farrakhan said at the annual convention of the movement that embraces black nationalism. “It ain’t ego, it’s my love for you.” (I would believe FALSE prophet. But other than that he’s nothing more than a race-baiting hate monger.) Farrakhan spent most of the fiery nearly four-hour speech recounting a 1985 vision he had in Mexico. Farrakhan has often described how he believes he was invited aboard an unidentified flying object he calls “the wheel” where he said he heard the late Nation of Islam leader Elijah Muhammad speak to him. (“Visions” and UFO’s? Could there be any better example of a crackpot? Which prescription (or non-prescription drug) was responsible for those “visions?”)  Go ahead and defend this disillusion, racist hate-monger. |
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I think discussing race and pulling a race card ate different. IMO pulling the race card is trying to make a non racist issue seem like a race issue by exclaiming, it's because I am "insert race".
Now in my experience this is usually done by less educated black people. I don't know if they truly are falsely assuming racism or using it to manipulate people. It was quite common in Jr high and high school when I was growing up. But as I got older I didn't see it much. I think it's counter productive to racial equality to always bring up race. When I was in college there was a NSBE chapter at my school. National Society of Black Engineers. I was is IEEE or institute of electrical and electronic engineers. We had some engineering classmates in the organization who were black and refused to join NESB. They too didn't like an organization that was racially based even if only by name. Unity isn't created by segregation. |
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I think discussing race and pulling a race card ate different. IMO pulling the race card is trying to make a non racist issue seem like a race issue by exclaiming, it's because I am "insert race". Now in my experience this is usually done by less educated black people. I don't know if they truly are falsely assuming racism or using it to manipulate people. It was quite common in Jr high and high school when I was growing up. But as I got older I didn't see it much. I think it's counter productive to racial equality to always bring up race. When I was in college there was a NSBE chapter at my school. National Society of Black Engineers. I was is IEEE or institute of electrical and electronic engineers. We had some engineering classmates in the organization who were black and refused to join NESB. They too didn't like an organization that was racially based even if only by name. Unity isn't created by segregation. really? so when I have family reunions,, we arent creating unity? does everyone always have to do everything with everyone else? why have democrats AND republicans? why have boys AND girls? why have college degrees AND hs diplomas there is nothing DIVISIVE about people who share a common history or experience coming together to build that into something better, so long as it isnt at the expense of oppression of someone else what resarch shows is that in the educational system in america , minorities do not have the same encouragement to move into certain fields as others do thats why we have a WOMENS basketball league,, basketball was considered a mans sport and so women made their own because it was their WAY IN,,,,their way to socialize with others who share experiences if there is already an engineers club at school thats great, but sometimes people get tired of being the MINORITY of a group and want to go somewhere where they might truly feel like they have a common experience to share with others there look up the demographics of engineers and Im sure you will find females and other minorities are not highly represented,,,for them to unite to try and get some EXPOSURE does not necessarily stump whatever 'unity' is imagined to have happened without that effort,,,, |
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I think discussing race and pulling a race card ate different. IMO pulling the race card is trying to make a non racist issue seem like a race issue by exclaiming, it's because I am "insert race". Now in my experience this is usually done by less educated black people. I don't know if they truly are falsely assuming racism or using it to manipulate people. It was quite common in Jr high and high school when I was growing up. But as I got older I didn't see it much. I think it's counter productive to racial equality to always bring up race. When I was in college there was a NSBE chapter at my school. National Society of Black Engineers. I was is IEEE or institute of electrical and electronic engineers. We had some engineering classmates in the organization who were black and refused to join NESB. They too didn't like an organization that was racially based even if only by name. Unity isn't created by segregation. really? so when I have family reunions,, we arent creating unity? does everyone always have to do everything with everyone else? why have democrats AND republicans? why have boys AND girls? why have college degrees AND hs diplomas there is nothing DIVISIVE about people who share a common history or experience coming together to build that into something better, so long as it isnt at the expense of oppression of someone else what resarch shows is that in the educational system in america , minorities do not have the same encouragement to move into certain fields as others do thats why we have a WOMENS basketball league,, basketball was considered a mans sport and so women made their own because it was their WAY IN,,,,their way to socialize with others who share experiences if there is already an engineers club at school thats great, but sometimes people get tired of being the MINORITY of a group and want to go somewhere where they might truly feel like they have a common experience to share with others there look up the demographics of engineers and Im sure you will find females and other minorities are not highly represented,,,for them to unite to try and get some EXPOSURE does not necessarily stump whatever 'unity' is imagined to have happened without that effort,,,, And yet a white society of engineers would be considered racist even though Asians claim the majority of engineers. I am not saying you can't have diversity. I am saying don't join race oriented groups while simultaneously planning about people identifying you by race. |
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I think discussing race and pulling a race card ate different. IMO pulling the race card is trying to make a non racist issue seem like a race issue by exclaiming, it's because I am "insert race". Now in my experience this is usually done by less educated black people. I don't know if they truly are falsely assuming racism or using it to manipulate people. It was quite common in Jr high and high school when I was growing up. But as I got older I didn't see it much. I think it's counter productive to racial equality to always bring up race. When I was in college there was a NSBE chapter at my school. National Society of Black Engineers. I was is IEEE or institute of electrical and electronic engineers. We had some engineering classmates in the organization who were black and refused to join NESB. They too didn't like an organization that was racially based even if only by name. Unity isn't created by segregation. really? so when I have family reunions,, we arent creating unity? does everyone always have to do everything with everyone else? why have democrats AND republicans? why have boys AND girls? why have college degrees AND hs diplomas there is nothing DIVISIVE about people who share a common history or experience coming together to build that into something better, so long as it isnt at the expense of oppression of someone else what resarch shows is that in the educational system in america , minorities do not have the same encouragement to move into certain fields as others do thats why we have a WOMENS basketball league,, basketball was considered a mans sport and so women made their own because it was their WAY IN,,,,their way to socialize with others who share experiences if there is already an engineers club at school thats great, but sometimes people get tired of being the MINORITY of a group and want to go somewhere where they might truly feel like they have a common experience to share with others there look up the demographics of engineers and Im sure you will find females and other minorities are not highly represented,,,for them to unite to try and get some EXPOSURE does not necessarily stump whatever 'unity' is imagined to have happened without that effort,,,, And yet a white society of engineers would be considered racist even though Asians claim the majority of engineers. I am not saying you can't have diversity. I am saying don't join race oriented groups while simultaneously complaining about people identifying you by race. You can opt for special treatment or equal treatment. I don't care which, just don't be a hypocrite. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 07/10/12 08:42 AM
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I think discussing race and pulling a race card ate different. IMO pulling the race card is trying to make a non racist issue seem like a race issue by exclaiming, it's because I am "insert race". Now in my experience this is usually done by less educated black people. I don't know if they truly are falsely assuming racism or using it to manipulate people. It was quite common in Jr high and high school when I was growing up. But as I got older I didn't see it much. I think it's counter productive to racial equality to always bring up race. When I was in college there was a NSBE chapter at my school. National Society of Black Engineers. I was is IEEE or institute of electrical and electronic engineers. We had some engineering classmates in the organization who were black and refused to join NESB. They too didn't like an organization that was racially based even if only by name. Unity isn't created by segregation. really? so when I have family reunions,, we arent creating unity? does everyone always have to do everything with everyone else? why have democrats AND republicans? why have boys AND girls? why have college degrees AND hs diplomas there is nothing DIVISIVE about people who share a common history or experience coming together to build that into something better, so long as it isnt at the expense of oppression of someone else what resarch shows is that in the educational system in america , minorities do not have the same encouragement to move into certain fields as others do thats why we have a WOMENS basketball league,, basketball was considered a mans sport and so women made their own because it was their WAY IN,,,,their way to socialize with others who share experiences if there is already an engineers club at school thats great, but sometimes people get tired of being the MINORITY of a group and want to go somewhere where they might truly feel like they have a common experience to share with others there look up the demographics of engineers and Im sure you will find females and other minorities are not highly represented,,,for them to unite to try and get some EXPOSURE does not necessarily stump whatever 'unity' is imagined to have happened without that effort,,,, And yet a white society of engineers would be considered racist even though Asians claim the majority of engineers. I am not saying you can't have diversity. I am saying don't join race oriented groups while simultaneously planning about people identifying you by race. this is intellectually disingenuous first, yes, engineers are much more likely to be foreign born because they are more likely to be from cultures which encourage STREAMLINED education from a young age that focuses more specifically on what a person will do as an adult, as opposed to american culture which wants kids to mostly 'be kids' and not feel pressured ,,,, second,, sometimes, aknowledging my race may be a reason people EXCLUDE me,, as has historically been shown to happen in America, where my race is in the clear minority socially, financially, educationally, and just about every other category one could speak of that impacts our lives as americans,,, joining a group that doesnt SEE my race as a negative or a drawback is a fairly wise option I have never complained about people 'identifying' my race, but have in fact said that I embrace being SEEN, which includes aknowledging the unique combination of things that make me uniquely me,,including my race and ancestral history,,, what I am trying to draw attention to, is that , DEMOGRAPHICALLY, there have been institutional policies and a longstanding culture that gave minorities a SEVERE disadvantage and whose effects continue to linger what I am interested in is HONEST discussion about ways to dissolve some of those lingering affects, but that rarely happens because starting an HONEST discussion begins with honestly aknowledging they exist as a real hurdle for many minorities....instead of the usual attempt to shut down or divert conversation with some accusations about 'race cards' and 'double standards',,,, |
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I think discussing race and pulling a race card ate different. IMO pulling the race card is trying to make a non racist issue seem like a race issue by exclaiming, it's because I am "insert race". Now in my experience this is usually done by less educated black people. I don't know if they truly are falsely assuming racism or using it to manipulate people. It was quite common in Jr high and high school when I was growing up. But as I got older I didn't see it much. I think it's counter productive to racial equality to always bring up race. When I was in college there was a NSBE chapter at my school. National Society of Black Engineers. I was is IEEE or institute of electrical and electronic engineers. We had some engineering classmates in the organization who were black and refused to join NESB. They too didn't like an organization that was racially based even if only by name. Unity isn't created by segregation. really? so when I have family reunions,, we arent creating unity? does everyone always have to do everything with everyone else? why have democrats AND republicans? why have boys AND girls? why have college degrees AND hs diplomas there is nothing DIVISIVE about people who share a common history or experience coming together to build that into something better, so long as it isnt at the expense of oppression of someone else what resarch shows is that in the educational system in america , minorities do not have the same encouragement to move into certain fields as others do thats why we have a WOMENS basketball league,, basketball was considered a mans sport and so women made their own because it was their WAY IN,,,,their way to socialize with others who share experiences if there is already an engineers club at school thats great, but sometimes people get tired of being the MINORITY of a group and want to go somewhere where they might truly feel like they have a common experience to share with others there look up the demographics of engineers and Im sure you will find females and other minorities are not highly represented,,,for them to unite to try and get some EXPOSURE does not necessarily stump whatever 'unity' is imagined to have happened without that effort,,,, And yet a white society of engineers would be considered racist even though Asians claim the majority of engineers. I am not saying you can't have diversity. I am saying don't join race oriented groups while simultaneously complaining about people identifying you by race. You can opt for special treatment or equal treatment. I don't care which, just don't be a hypocrite. no hypocrisy here no desire for 'special' treatment either |
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All ends when the brown people are the only people.
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All ends when the brown people are the only people. smh maybe |
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I think discussing race and pulling a race card ate different. IMO pulling the race card is trying to make a non racist issue seem like a race issue by exclaiming, it's because I am "insert race". Now in my experience this is usually done by less educated black people. I don't know if they truly are falsely assuming racism or using it to manipulate people. It was quite common in Jr high and high school when I was growing up. But as I got older I didn't see it much. I think it's counter productive to racial equality to always bring up race. When I was in college there was a NSBE chapter at my school. National Society of Black Engineers. I was is IEEE or institute of electrical and electronic engineers. We had some engineering classmates in the organization who were black and refused to join NESB. They too didn't like an organization that was racially based even if only by name. Unity isn't created by segregation. really? so when I have family reunions,, we arent creating unity? does everyone always have to do everything with everyone else? why have democrats AND republicans? why have boys AND girls? why have college degrees AND hs diplomas there is nothing DIVISIVE about people who share a common history or experience coming together to build that into something better, so long as it isnt at the expense of oppression of someone else what resarch shows is that in the educational system in america , minorities do not have the same encouragement to move into certain fields as others do thats why we have a WOMENS basketball league,, basketball was considered a mans sport and so women made their own because it was their WAY IN,,,,their way to socialize with others who share experiences if there is already an engineers club at school thats great, but sometimes people get tired of being the MINORITY of a group and want to go somewhere where they might truly feel like they have a common experience to share with others there look up the demographics of engineers and Im sure you will find females and other minorities are not highly represented,,,for them to unite to try and get some EXPOSURE does not necessarily stump whatever 'unity' is imagined to have happened without that effort,,,, And yet a white society of engineers would be considered racist even though Asians claim the majority of engineers. I am not saying you can't have diversity. I am saying don't join race oriented groups while simultaneously complaining about people identifying you by race. You can opt for special treatment or equal treatment. I don't care which, just don't be a hypocrite. no hypocrisy here no desire for 'special' treatment either Why do you assume all comments are directed at you? This was a general blanketed statement. When you have an engineering degree you typically don't face much discrimination. They are interested in what you can bring to the company and not your race. You look at my response as not serious? It is 100% serious. If we want to have racial equality then we need to stop focusing on race. Think of someone as a person and not a race. For example removing the race question from college applications and job applications would be closer to racial equality. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 07/10/12 09:36 AM
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I think discussing race and pulling a race card ate different. IMO pulling the race card is trying to make a non racist issue seem like a race issue by exclaiming, it's because I am "insert race". Now in my experience this is usually done by less educated black people. I don't know if they truly are falsely assuming racism or using it to manipulate people. It was quite common in Jr high and high school when I was growing up. But as I got older I didn't see it much. I think it's counter productive to racial equality to always bring up race. When I was in college there was a NSBE chapter at my school. National Society of Black Engineers. I was is IEEE or institute of electrical and electronic engineers. We had some engineering classmates in the organization who were black and refused to join NESB. They too didn't like an organization that was racially based even if only by name. Unity isn't created by segregation. really? so when I have family reunions,, we arent creating unity? does everyone always have to do everything with everyone else? why have democrats AND republicans? why have boys AND girls? why have college degrees AND hs diplomas there is nothing DIVISIVE about people who share a common history or experience coming together to build that into something better, so long as it isnt at the expense of oppression of someone else what resarch shows is that in the educational system in america , minorities do not have the same encouragement to move into certain fields as others do thats why we have a WOMENS basketball league,, basketball was considered a mans sport and so women made their own because it was their WAY IN,,,,their way to socialize with others who share experiences if there is already an engineers club at school thats great, but sometimes people get tired of being the MINORITY of a group and want to go somewhere where they might truly feel like they have a common experience to share with others there look up the demographics of engineers and Im sure you will find females and other minorities are not highly represented,,,for them to unite to try and get some EXPOSURE does not necessarily stump whatever 'unity' is imagined to have happened without that effort,,,, And yet a white society of engineers would be considered racist even though Asians claim the majority of engineers. I am not saying you can't have diversity. I am saying don't join race oriented groups while simultaneously complaining about people identifying you by race. You can opt for special treatment or equal treatment. I don't care which, just don't be a hypocrite. no hypocrisy here no desire for 'special' treatment either Why do you assume all comments are directed at you? This was a general blanketed statement. When you have an engineering degree you typically don't face much discrimination. They are interested in what you can bring to the company and not your race. You look at my response as not serious? It is 100% serious. If we want to have racial equality then we need to stop focusing on race. Think of someone as a person and not a race. For example removing the race question from college applications and job applications would be closer to racial equality. the pronoun 'YOU' can be quite ambivalent as in You can opt for special treatment or equal treatment. I don't care which, just don't be a hypocrite. and what do you consider 'focusing' on race? is it aknowledging it, or aknowleding its relevance within american culture or the affects of that relevance? would no longer mentioning it or aknowledging it(in the open) close the racial equailty gap? do you think things were more equal before civil rights started 'focusing' on racial and gender inequality? nto talking about illness doesnt cure illness,, you have to KNOW a problem before you can address it,, that requires some focus |
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