here is the complex version of what I think you are saying too simplistically

if the admission standard is lower for black applicants than it is for white applicants, then the admission policy reflects a belief that blacks are less able to meet the higher standard than whites are.


this assumes there is one simplistic 'standard' that all are required to meet, when there is not

there are SEVERAL things considered in admissions, in addition to grades, and Im not particularly aware of any lower 'standard' that is permitted due to race

what I am aware of is certain POINTS being given for any number of factors that can than raise someone not meeting a certain 'graded' standard into a more equal position with those who are

so, students of alumni get points (possibly to encourage alumni to continue the tradition)

students with a high demand major get points (possibly to encourage more to select those majors)

students from certain educational backgrounds get points (possibly to give an equal chance in young adulthood for those students who worked at least as hard in SUBSTANDARD locations as students in better locations for primary education and still have potential to excel)

I dont think anyone believes when these points are given to alumni children, or certain majors, or even vets, it somehow implies a lesser aptitude,, so why should we come to that conclusion when it is given to 'blacks'?

Someone else has mentioned the inadequate education that some black kids receive. Such an inadequate education hinders the ability of those kids to succeed in their pursuits of college educations and good jobs.

Such inadequate education is in part due to the performance of the schools that kids attend. Politicians keep sending more tax dollars to the schools, but the inadequate education continues.

During the last decade, plenty of political leaders and civic leaders have encouraged school choice - the ability of kids to leave a poorly-performing schools and enter better-performing schools. Yet, other politicians have opposed school choice, resulting in kids remaining in poorly-performing schools.

Political and civic leaders have stressed the importance of ridding schools of poorly-performing teachers, but doing so is a lot like pulling teeth, because other politicians have opposed reforms that would rid schools of poorly-performing teachers.

So, black kids remain stuck in poorly-performing schools, being taught by poorly performing teachers.

Now, tell me who is really on the side of black kids.

the parents of those children, like me,, hopefully

Could it be that keeping the label (African American) is part of keeping the excuse for perpetuating a sub-cultural attitude?
“I’m African American, my schools are bad, I’m discriminated against, I’m oppressed.”
The idea that only African Americans, whose outward physical attributes do not neatly fit into a single category, live in poverty, attend terrible school districts, lack quality healthcare and are deprived of equal opportunity to succeed - has been dispelled.



whatever I call myself doesnt EXCUSE or CAUSE the systemic discrepancies,,,

why can I not aknowledge being AMERICAN and having AFRICAN ancestry? why is that perpetuating any 'sub culture'?


there is no excuse here Redy

my statement is not about 'my' oppression, as it keeps trying to be switched to in this thread

its about SYSTEMIC oppression

so when we can DOCUMENT the disparities along RACIAL lines of progress in areas like education, or medicine, or socioeconomic status , or justice

I dont need to personally have been a VICTIM to recognize a trend happening

I dont need to have been attacked in an alley to know that allies provide excellent cover for criminals to mug or rape

I dont need to have personally been hit by a drunk driver to know there is a greater risk to driving drunk than driving sober

I can likewise look at DEMOGRAPHIC TRENDS and discuss the disparities witnessed without necessarily having to provide some PERSONAL Experience with them,, especially with any type of bigotry that will always come down in a one on one situation to proving INTENT And MOTIVATION which one is just not going to do on a social forum,,,,

Never the less David, I thought it was interesting and worth posting...

Standard of Value is independent of Race,Creed or Nationality!

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/standard_of_value.html

I was hoping this would be your answer Harmony...It's the best answer, the only answer really...My daughter is a teacher, ninth grade World History....She tells me things about the system and about the students that are hard to comprehend..."Fixing" our educational system is another thing people like to toss out, but they do so without a true understanding of the complications that exist, why they exist, and like David, they forget that in order to properly educate our children, and by that I mean educate them to a world standard, it itakes a COMPLETE or WHOLE effort.... IMO, that effort begins with the parents...The responsibility to instill those values in our children begins in the home...

I also agree with your version of college entrance requirements...This too is more complicated than people realize and points being given to "certain" men and women for "certain" reasons in no way insinuates they are less able to meet testing standards...People who think like that are thinking like racists...

I have a question.
I'm om my phone and can't look it up.

Who came up with the idea of giving minorities the preferential edge in the education area?

.......
What sane, quality teacher would risk their lives going into schools where the kids act like feral animals?

Civil Rights Act of 1964 and my (((daughter)))....

noone has yet

although, they have come up with the idea of giving points to children of alumni, or children who have overcome great obstacle (kids with character/potential to succeed), or vets, etc,,,



teachers usually hail from the communities in which they teach, those teaching in 'feral' enviornments are often those who are already adapted to such environment out of necessity

the others are there because of financial incentives,,,

I wouldn't have the patience to teach in a school where the parents haven't taught their kids how to behave.
I will pray your daughter stays safe and can make a difference.

She has faced some huge challenges Will...A shooting that nearly killed one student, three time repeaters meaning 18 year old "men" still in the 9th grade....Her first two years were beyond hard...I think she called me every night that first year,,,Much of the time in tears...She's a good teacher though and she is determined....I admire her tenacity, but Will there is not a single day that I don't worry for her safty...Thank you for your kind words...

its not as common as it once was

School violence in the U.S. reached a peak in 1993, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. That year, there were 42 homicides by students and 13 "serious violent crimes" — rape, sexual assault, robbery and aggravated assault — per 1,000 students at primary and secondary schools. By 2010, the latest figures available, those numbers had decreased to two homicides and four violent crimes per 1,000 students.
http://www.npr.org/2012/03/16/148758783/violence-in-schools-how-big-a-problem-is-it

but we can continue to improve by encouraging COMMUNITIES to be more active with mentoring and setting examples for the kids as well as providing creative and productive outlets for them,,,,

True, but despite the overall decline in school violence it's important to acknowledge that there are still plenty of schools where it's a problem. Schools in big cities are still struggling to make their schools safer...This is because the schools are located in communities with high crime rates...We need to acknowledge that there are still serious problems out there....

yes there are

If an individual wants to self-identify as African American as a means of group affiliation, it is no different than any other label which servers the same purpose, which is to recognize others with whom you share a commonality. If the desire is to acknowledge common links to the past, like how I came to be born an American, then I agree that the group designation should not excuse or cause the propagation of racism.

Does that definition for African American suffice as the exclusive reason for some people to refer to African Americans as “my people”?




Perhaps the terms used throughout this thread have caused confusion: African American, racism, my people, slavery, implicit & systemic, and discrimination - or - perhaps after hearing these words related consistently,even outside of this thread, some of us are left with the idea that African Americans tend to think of themselves as the only target of racism of any kind.

Which could be the explanation for the question that was asked of you - how has such discrimination affected you? It was a logical question becasue is racism against African Americans is so systemic than associating one's self to the term (African Americans) as 'my people' leads others to think you have suffered some oppressive form of racism.

To discuss discrimination “along racial lines” we have to include all racial minorities because it is not only “African” Americans (my people) who are subject to the kind of implicit and systemic racism we have been discussing.

If I use the definition of African American, the group identity I described at the start of this post, we would have to agree that not all people of color are African Americans – so I’m not sure why the term was ever introduced to the thread to begin with.

Perhaps it's due to the bias of my own experience as previously stated.

perhaps after hearing these words related consistently,even outside of this thread, some of us are left with the idea that African Americans tend to think of themselves as the only target of racism of any kind.




Of course not – and several of us have supported the idea that racism is on-going with examples. And some of us have noted that racial minorities other than self-identifying African Americans are victims of the same discrimination.



So then – how did the term African American and the ‘my people’ association come up in this conversation?

I dont feel like looking through all the posts to find the first incidence,,,


I Am aware there is other discrimination, as well

I have not, however, witnessed 'race card' thrown up in THESE Threads regarding anything but black/african american/people of color,,,,or whatever other label chosen for those of african origin/descent

I , as an african american myself, have been accused of the 'race card' and so I address it in that context,,,,