yes I tend to agree - living for 17 yrs with someone who wanted me to be someone else....the entire time - was living in hell but I have only recently figured that out

honorable is everything - if he has no honor - I don't even want to say good morning much less date him.....

If power tools and knowing how to use them equate manly, do sewing machines, gourmet cooking, and darning socks equate womanly? If so, I am in deep chit.....

Darning Socks.... Last time I heard that was 50 Years ago..

Hahah so am I....I'm more likely to be found with a hammer in my hand then a sewing machine in front of me... And darn socks nooooooooooooooooo way I'll just go buy you a new pair lmao

The "most" manly man I ever knew could get anything done and done right without leaving the comfort of his reclining chair....Gud was he a mans man!!!

Next week's edition may not be of any use to me then. Still, i did sign up to collect all the issues of your magazine, so i really have no choice in this case :)

In reference to the OP...

As a former tradesman, I can tell you that the majority of men are not as good at building and fixing stuff as is generally believed. I have seen stuff that would give any homeowner nightmares if they only knew. And it's VERY common.

I've even had a DIY-er argue with me once regarding the knowledge needed to re-wire a home. I was an electrician for 8 years. I had to have schooling for 4 years. I had to know the both the codes and the science in addition to practical application. Yet this guy wouldn't listen to me when I tried to caution him. I just wanted to be sure he didn't burn his house down, but he insisted he knew everything. He wouldn't even let me question him to satisfy my concern. After all, I had known this guy for about 8 years. I would have felt horrible if he lost his wife and kids because of he did something he should not have with the electrical wiring. In the end, it was his decision, but it was something he should NOT have been messing with.


Having worked in the trades, I perhaps know a bit more than the average man about building and repair. However, it also highlighted what I did not know about such stuff. It also showed me how dangerous or costly it can be me to make a mistake. I also learned about the legal side.

I can tell every DIY-er right now: if you think you may not be able to finish the job, then don't bother starting it. Get someone who's qualified to do it instead. First off, a lot of reputable people will turn down such jobs because of liability, cost, or scheduling. Basically, it a can be a major headache, and it can cause tension between the customer and the contractor. That later can equate to lost customers. It's not worth the risk. Often because of liability, the contractor will need to inspect all of your work and fix anything you did wrong before signing off on the job. Otherwise, if anything you did fails, the contractor can be held responsible for it in a court of law. Even if you don't go after him, the insurance companies will, and they are ruthless.

Consider that when doing your own work. If something goes wrong, and it's all DIY, then you WILL lose your coverage. Furthermore, you will find it much more difficult to find decent insurance afterward.


So is it manly to build and repair things? To extent. That extent is defined by how well he knows his limits.

I could probably build a house, wire it, and plumb it. That doesn't mean I will. Too many things I still don't know. But I could wire the entire house myself and save $30k while still having it pass inspection. It's what I know. I also could do the sheetrocking and painting, saving a bit more. The rest I would leave to contractors, and having been a tradesman, I know who's good and who's not.

Same thing applies to cars. I know how to do a fair amount, but I know my limits. I have a mechanic who understands this, and is often willing to help me out because he knows my limits too. If I can't do it, he knows he's getting a job that requires a fair amount of labor.

So don't expect your man to be a DIY-er. Know your man instead, and act as his conscience if he's getting in over his head. It could save you some money, amongst other things.

I was born to supervise.....

hahahahahahahaha

No...my thoughts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M902ZJHzaLE&feature=related

was finishing up a deck at this home and my boss called and said he was sending this new guy that was a "master" carpenter from NJ over.He showed up and i asked him to set up everything so we could cut stringers.He came back with a roll of string and scissors...true story

ok ok ya'll are wondering what happened to him i guess.Well he took a pay cut i showed him how to use a speed square,framing square and circular saw,he ended up being the best "cut man" i ever had.

I think a wide verity of skills are lacking on a lot of people of both genders.

I do not however think assigning certain tasks to certain genders is really a 21st century winning strategy.

My mom was a doit yourselfer, and while my dad was my tools/shop/carpenter/tech extreme she was seriously awesome in her ability to figure stuff out . . .

I think everyone should work to be like that. No one should say . . . well I am __________ gender I dont/cant do that, its just an excuse not to learn something and develop skills.

No one is born with these skills.

I wonder what passes for carpentry in NJ if this guy didn't know how to use a Square nor a circular saw . . .

What is funny is that when I was paying my way through college I worked at all kinds of trades. I ended up doing a bit of everything over the years (sadly several years) it took me to pay my way through 4 year uni. So I ended up doing framing/punchout/roofing/finish work ect, and on a month to month basis we would get guys just like you describe and they would get a superintendent position or lead carpenter, or cut man . . . and wouldn't really know much.

I never mastered the craft, there is just a ton of things to know, but what I could do was read plans, and read methods, and UNDERSTAND. I always stayed humble, and made sure I learned everything I could from people willing to teach. That to me was the most important thing, and they ended up making me the super becuase I would make sure it was done right even if I had to look it up, or call over to the other sites lead guru. Not making assumptions was a big part of getting better, and all to often in this trade people are afraid to seem less than knowledgeable.

It surprises me that there are still so many people in this day that think men and women should have clearly defined roles/tasks. That a man needs to do certain things to be manly and a woman needs to behave in a certain way to be feminine.

I think most people probably fall into a middle ground were they do favor certain gender assigned roles, but are accepting of the other gender filling that role. I think on the flip however that at least among men(where I have experience) it is quite common to mess with each other over a man doing what was traditionally a womens role, or being seen as less than the "man of the house".

It is a traditionalist mindset for sure, however the bravado hasn't really changed has it?

I notice it a lot on a site like this when people think men should be making the first move/contact/whatever when it comes to dating. And that the woman should sit back and wait for them to come to her.

But, I guess it does have a lot to do with how you were brought up. It can be hard to change that mindset when it comes to gender related roles.

That doesn't make sense to me. Not a male/female thing, yet it has to do with male/female energy?

I've seen much worse than that from so-called professionals. Some guys are just hacks. They start out as handymen, but then start calling themselves builders, electricians, plumbers, etc. Truth is, they don't have proper knowledge or training....or they have habits that kill brain cells.

I've seen 2 ft. of 1/4" copper bus bar vaporized because 1) the position of underground cable was marked wrong, and 2) the lineman from the local power company had place solid copper blanks in the outside transformer because he was out of fuses.

The backhoe hooked the cables while digging, and pulled them. Without fuses to cut the power, the cables inside the industrial service created a dead short. BOOM! Fireball inside the 8 ft tall x 4 ft wide by 10 ft long electrical service enclosure. The factory lost power, but the man was trapped inside the backhoe because the whole machine was electrified until the blanks were removed from the transformer.

That's the power of 480 volts (3 phase) with practically unlimited amps.

So, some of these dumba$$es even work for our utility companies. If some of the "professionals" can't do it right, then the average Joe typically is not going to be much better.


I chose to use this story because I don't want to give people nightmares with some of what I've found inside homes. I've worked on plenty of stuff including lead-jacketed 2-wire flat cable....while it was still live. Scary stuff. Some of the wiring I've worked on pre-dates 1900. Some of the towns in my area had a number of mills with dams which produced hydro-electric power before electricity became widespread. A number of these have been converted to residences, printing presses, galleries, and even a restaurant.

Being in New England, you also work on a lot of construction from many different periods, from 1600s through the Great Depression through modern construction. You see good and bad over a wide cross-section of history. Some of those old houses were built to last, having survived multiple hurricanes and floods with the field stone foundation and rough-hewn oak and hickory looking so well-preserved it could easily be half its age, even though you know it isn't. There's some impressive construction around here....and some not-so-impressive too.

If I had a dime for every time someone told me "my [grand]father built this house himself..." only to cut into a wall to find a hidden disaster....well, I'd be well on my way to retirement.

Oh my your a sparky..lol.Anyways your work is the kind where people shouldn't lie just to get their foot in the door.I'm now a commercial superintendent and most of our jobs require 3 phase and yes you better know what you are doing cause if that main is turned on and sparks go flying...mucho money just wasted.

As far as DIY = manliness...

It has a lot to do with 1) saving money, 2) doing your fair share around the house, 3) setting a good example - especially regarding work ethic - for your children, 4) self-improvement through problem solving, 5) the confidence that women find so attractive....and so on.

Sure, it doesn't have to be a gender thing, and it may be a bit traditional. But sometimes when we are raised with a certain role model, like our fathers, grandfathers, or uncles, doing some of the traditional "manly" stuff helps a guy feel like a man. It's a psychological thing that can help boost or maintain self-image.

And let's face it: a lot a women like a man who isn't afraid to sweat or get his hands dirty. I've even known women who thought it was sexy.